Mr. VINSON. What the traffic will bear? Mr. FRANCIS. Yes, sir; what the traffic will bear. Mr. VINSON. Have you any notion as to what the traffic will bear at the cost to which you refer, $5, alongside the ship, or $8 to distant points? Mr. FRANCIS. Most of the coal going from our region to New England is industrial coal, not retail-dealer coal. Mr. VINSON. That would be approximately $5 coal? Mr. FRANCIS. But if that coal has to be unloaded and to be put in railroad cars for shipment at a cost of 50 cents a ton for dockage, and then has to be shipped fifty or a hundred miles away at a freight rate of $1.50, you would have a cost of $7. But if it goes to a retail dealer and the retail dealer handles it through a yard and it happens to be a domestic shipment, the price might be $9 to the consumer of domestic coal. Mr. VINSON. Then you do not care to say what domestic coal is selling for in Boston today? Mr. FRANCIS. I do not have the figures in mind, but I would think that Pocahontas or New River domestic coal-and of course, that is anthracite, and they use very little of our coal there for domestic purposes but I would say it would be running from $7.50 to $9.50 or $10 a ton, according to the grade and size. Mr. TREADWAY. Have you a break-down, giving us as best you can-and I know it would be approximate, because you are merely giving your honest estimate as to this 60 cents per ton added cost to the N. R. A. price if this bill were enacted into law? Mr. FRANCIS. Gentlemen, I have laid on your desks this morning three exhibits which I would like to have placed in the record. Mr. VINSON. Does that cover the question I asked you? Mr. FRANCIS. I would like to use that in going into the question you asked. The attached figures show the production costs (weighted averages) for the 10months period, April 1934 through January 1935, for the major mining districts included in "Minimum price area no. 1." Page 2, et seq. shows the weighted average production costs of the subdistricts in the major mining districts. NOTE. As explained on the graph, these figures are taken from the N. R. A. statistics. Production costs (weighted averages) for 10-month period, April 1934 through January 1935, for major mining districts included in “Mining price area no. 1” [Figures taken from National Recovery Administration statistics] Weighted average production costs of subdistricts in major mining districts-Cont'd. Mr. FRANCIS. The first exhibit starts out with Mr. VINSON. Which one do you call the first? Mr. FRANCIS. This large sheet here, which is headed "Districts in 'minimum price area 1'.' The second one is a chart showing at 5-cent intervals the cost of production-including selling expenses and administrative expensesand the tonnage in each cost class for mines in the West VirginiaVirginia smokeless coal fields, producing approximately 96 percent of the commercial tonnage, during the 8 months' period ended November 30, 1935. The third one is a statement of five typewritten pages showing the production costs-weighted averages for the 10 months' period, April 1934 through January 1935, for the major mining districts included in "minimum price area no. 1." In regard to the first and third exhibits, which, are of course, figures made from the same compilation, these are taken from the N. R. A. statistics. They do not represent the entire production from this area. They represent such figures as were filed with the N. R. A. and compiled from these districts. I believe they are fairly representative because during this period of 10 months they represent 175,000,000 tons of production for the 10 months' period, which is approximately 60 percent of the tonnage produced in that area. I believe they are typical. It is difficult to analyze this bill because it is difficult for me to understand this bill. But this exhibit no. 1 shows the cost of production in the socalled "minimum price area no. 1", as set out in this bill, for 175,000,000 tons, broken down on this larger exhibit by major districts, making up the no. 1 district. It shows the weighted cost of production to be approximately $1.85 per ton. Mr. VINSON. That is under N. R. A.? Mr. FRANCIS. Yes; and that is cost, not the selling price. It shows, for instance, in the State of Indiana, in that district a cost of $1.52 a ton. It shows a cost in Illinois of $1.553; it shows in northern West Virginia a cost of $1.667; it shows in the Panhandle of West Virginia a cost of $1.727; it shows in Ohio a cost of $1.803; it shows in the Virginia field, southern no. 2, high volatile coal, a cost of $1.819; it shows in western Pennsylvania a cost of $1.941; it shows in the smokeless fields, the low volatile fields, southern no. 1, a cost of $1.943; it shows in Iowa a cost of $2.112; it shows in eastern Pennsylvania a cost of $2.118; and it shows in Michigan a cost of $3.185. That is the variation in cost under the N. R. A. wages and hours, which are generally still in effect, and which are voluntarily in effect, so far as I know, in this district. So I do not have any reason to believe that the costs in any of these districts are today any less than they were under the N. R. A. Mr. VINSON. The selling price is approximately 40 cents a ton less? Mr. FRANCIS. The current selling price; that does not mean that the coal moving is 40 cents less on the sales being made today, because there are a great many sales that were made two or three weeks or a month ago for a contract period over a year which we may still be moving at a higher price. So the average is not 40 cents under, but I think the current market would probably be 40 cents under. Mr. VINSON. But that dollar proposition dealt with the cu.rent price? Mr. FRANCIS. That dollar proposition dealt with the current price. Mr. VINSON. In other words, you did not mean to say it would be a dollar more than coal that was moving under contract at a higher price? Mr FRANCIS. No; I did not mean that. Mr. VINSON. Let us get the figures. What is coal at its current price selling for today, on the average? Mr. FRANCIS. Mr. Vinson, we produce in this minimum price area no. 2, from the five or six thousand mines, approximately 40,000 different kinds and sizes and qualities of coal. That certainly illustrates how impossible it is to say just what the market price is because each of those coals has a different value and a different use. Mr. VINSON. I realize that; but you have in the record a statement that if this bill passes the cost will be a dollar per ton above the current price. What I would like to have for the record is a statement as to what price you used. Mr. FRANCIS. The current price for the 10 months' period I am referring to Mr. VINSON. I am not talking about that. Mr. FRANCIS (continuing). Was approximately $1.85. So, if you take 40 cents off, I would say coal today is currently moving at approximately $1.45 or $1.50 a ton. Mr. VINSON. The $1.85 is the cost per ton under N. R. A.? Mr. FRANCIS. It happens, however, that the selling price for the same period for that area was approximately the same as the cost. Mr. VINSON. I think some one said it was on the plus side about 2 percent, so as we get it there the selling price for this 10 months' period was approximately the cost price. Mr. FRANCIS. That is true. Mr. VINSON. Then you are using the $1.45 as the current price level. Mr. FRANCIS. I would say that is near the current price level of coal moving today. That is coal generally in this whole area; that is coal that is being sold this week. I may be a little bit low or a little bit high, but I think that is my guess. Mr. VINSON. Coming back now to a former question I asked you. The operators in this area-I believe they call it area no. 1? Mr. FRANCIS. They call it minimum price area no. 1. Mr. VINSON. In the sales of their coal, that is, the current sales, they are averaging 40 cents a ton less than the cost of production for those current sales; is that a fair statement, and is it substantially correct? Mr. FRANCIS. That is my estimate. It might be 50 cents. be 10 cents off, but they are less than the current cost of production; there is not any question about that, in my mind, as a whole, that is, considering the good mines, and the bad mines, and the indifferent mines. Mr. VINSON. Of course, you may use your own course, but I would like for you to break down that 60 cents added cost, if the SnyderGuffey bill passes, that is, the added cost above the N. R. A. cost, of 60 cents a ton. Mr. FRANCIS. In the first place, we have going on here today in this city a wage conference trying to arrive at a wage scale. The operators are proposing to continue the N. R. A. hours and wages. The miners are asking for a 6-hour day and a 5-day week and an advance in wages. The estimate of the operators here is that if the wage increase is granted by the operators it will add to that wage increase, and also account for the decrease in hours, if the demands should be granted, and that it would cost approximately 46 cents a ton more above the current cost for those items alone. Mr. VINSON. Let us get away from current prices or costs, because we get confused when we talk about that. My question is as to what it would be as compared to the N. R. A. cost. Mr. FRANCIS. All right. As far as cost is concerned, I would say that the current cost and the N. R. A. cost is practically the same thing. The difference today is between the N. R. A. selling price and the current selling price. I do not think there is any substantial difference between the N. R. A. cost and the current cost. So we might just refer to the cost. Mr. VINSON. You consider that they are substantially the same? Mr. FRANCIS. Yes; they are substantially the same, because there has been no change in any factor, or any substantial factor of cost during this period. But if we should have this bill passed and should have these boards set up, or have these commissions set up, I think we are going to pay, and the country is going to pay, the increased wage cost, and that makes approximately 46 cents, that the employees are asking for. That is 46 cents of the 60 cents. This bill provides for a tax of about 4 cents a ton, and that would make 50 cents. Certain costs under the bill, and certain inefficiencies that would result from starting and stopping with shorter hours, if they should go in effect, would amount to an item of 15 or 20 cents a ton, I would think, instead of 10 cents. Mr. VINSON. What are those things? Mr. FRANCIS. When you have the plant cost, and you have a plant installed to run 8 hours a day, and you cut that plant down to |