caufe affigned? I know not what may come of it. Corruption, in the former parliament, was complained of for private malice, but I doubt not but gentlemen come to this with clear thoughts. I do proteft before God, that I think the greatnefs of the nation is under the privileges of this houfe. A people can never heartily fapport that government that does not protect them-A flavifh people can never heartily fupport the government. Thofe that come after us here, if we are diffolved upon this point, will fpeak the fame language-I fear not diffolution. Let us adjourn till to morrow morning, and confult our own hearts what is fit to be done. Then the clerk put the question for adjourning, &c.

Saturday, March 8.

Sir Thomas Lee.] It is now eleven of the clock, and it is neceffary we propofe what to do before the black rod comes; whether you will do fomething previous; whether you will acquaint the king what we fuffer for want of a fpeaker; or whether you will propofe fomebody to fay fomething at the fords bar to the king? I move you to confider which you will do.

Sir Harbottle Grimstone.] Ife. cond that gentleman that fpoke Two things he propofed; Whether to fend to the king to reprefent what we fuffer for want of a fpeaker; or whether you will propofe fomebody to fay fomething to the king at the lords bar, when the black rod comes to call us up? Some of the long robe, I believe, have taken pains to fearch for pregedents: My eyes are not good,

and I am infirm, and not able to fearch. But thus much 1 fhall fay to the rational part. The queftion is, Whether the king's approbation of a speaker is the fubftance and effence of the matter? For my part I never took it to be fo. When you wait upon the king with your fpeaker, he is your fpeaker fo foon as you have chofen him,' and you may lay the mace upon the table. When you go up with the fpeaker to the lords houfe; you go up to tell the king, that, according to his direction, you have chofen a fpeaker. It has been a thing of courfe to give the king notice of the perfon you have chofen, that he may know him; and we ftand by, and give the fpeaker leave modeftly to deny, and exercife his oratory. If the king's approbation must be the effence of our choice, if you part with this, you part with all. Shall we not have the liberty to chufe our own fervant, fit to do our own work? Other people would destroy our work, if we part with that which muft enable us to do the work of them that trufted us and fent us hither. If any one man may be impofed upon us, who will not do our work, it may be he will put what queftion he pleases, and tire you out-This I have feen done. I would ask any man, who has influence upon this action, now we have chofen a fpeaker, that he fhould be refused? Whoever broke the laft parliament, without the defire of this house, or the advice of the privy council, that man or men that broke that parliament, will break this too, to the utter undoing of the nation. Our time is fhort, if you pleafe to think of it. If Seymour be not in the lords

lords houfe (as it is faid he is) or if he be in the country; if the perfon be in the country and not here, that we fhall choose, then let us fet up another to rule for him till he comes, as in the abfcence of a knight of the fhire that is chofen. Mr. Seymour is a perfon of great experience for the place, and he is the fitteft to go on where you left off; but he being not here, let fomebody fit in his chair to reprefent his perfon, till he comes. And then we will offer our reasons to the king, why we cannot recede from our firft election of Mr. Seymour for our Speaker,

Sir Thomas Clarges.] I was glad yesterday to find that moderation in this great matter. Though we were then fatisfied in our right, yet, by this night's confideration, gentlemen have looked over precedents-But though one of the long robe be more proper for fpeaker, yet there are precedents of others that have been in that place. I find anciently that the commons have chofen their fpeaker without prefenting him to the king for approbation. Some have made excufes to the king, and fome none (1 Hen. IV.) and in 7 Hen. VIII. he was prefented before the ordinary privileges were afked, viz. of accefs to the king's perfon, liberty of speech, &c. But it is notorious that all these things were our birthrights before. But if this argument be ufed against our right, because, in refpect to the king, we make a formality of the king's approbation, all our rights will fall with that. This matter before us is that which all the commons of England have a right to, and I hope we shall not impair

thofe rights that they have entrufted to us. R. II. Sir John Cheyney was chofen fpeaker, and went up to the king, &c, to be confirmed. The next day he fell fick, and defired the houfe to chofe another, and they chofe Dorwood, and notified it to the king that they had chofen him. Popham was chofen 28 Hen. VI. (a troublesome time.) He was fick and unable to perform the office, and the commons had leave granted to chufe another. But there are upon record many speakers that have been chofen, and were ready to ferve, without making any excufe. It is a ftrange thing that we should hear nothing of this for two hundred years, and now the kingdom is in danger, that this parliament should have an interruption. I hope that in con fideration of this matter, we shall take fuch steps as are worthy of the great truft repofed in us.

Mr. Sacheverell.] This matter is of great importance, and therefore we ought to take wary fteps in it to the king, that those who advifed him to this, may have no colour against us. The firit quefton ftands thus, Whether a fpeaker chofen ftands good to the fervice of the houfe, before he has the king's approbation The fecond question is, If the king can reject a fpeaker, chofen by the houfe, and qualified? If that be fo, there is an end of your bufinefs.

ft King James, after Sir Robert Philips was chofen fpeaker by the commons, he fent out warrants for writs, as fpeaker, without the" king's approbation of him; and I can tell many more precedentsBut perhaps we have papers pinned upon our backs as the for mer parliament had, and be fent

home.

Seymour in the chancellor's fpeech. But if it be proved that the king has always granted, and never denied the choice, I fuppofe the thing will be given up. There is but one precedent of the king's denial, and that was in the cafe of Thorp. It is ftrange that this houfe must be made a fecond. I fee many worthy faces that were not here the laft parliament: and therefore. I fhall fay, it is very hard, there having, for an hundred years together, never been fo much as one excufe made by a Speaker chofen by the commons, nor one allowance or difallowance

made in parliament, that it fhould be fo now. It was ufually excufed by compliment, and this parliament has complimented itfelf out of its right. But I would not lofe a hair's breadth of the king's right, nor the fubjects. They are enemies to the nation, that, at this time, throw a bone betwixt the king and us. After all this danger and diftraction we are in, muft this houfe be made the next precedent? I would not take the leaft right from the king. I move, that the clerk may put the queftion for adjourning the houfe till to-morrow,' and in the interim the records may be fearched for precedents in this matter, and then Ave may inform the king how much this manner of proceeding is to his prejudice and yours.

Mr. Williams.] This is now a queftion of right. I am forry that our time, at the beginning of a feffion, should be thus loft by the ftarting this queftion. Here is a worthy perfon named, Sir. Thomas Meres, and we named and prefented to the king a worthy one too. The commons have been

without a fpeaker, nor was their having a fpeaker originally from the crown, but by the commonsTill Hen. IV's time, not one precedent of prefenting a speaker, &c. The chancellor tells us,

that the

king's favour may not turn to his prejudice, &c. This being put to a queftion of right, we muft ftand upon our right. There is no reafon from the electors or the elected, why he fhould be rejected; therefore I adhere to Mr. Seymour.

Sir Thomas Clarges.] I defire to inform the houfe, because there are a great many new members

that were not of the laft parliament; that we have power of adjourning ourfelves by the clerkIn time of fickness of the fpeaker, it has been done from day to day. Gentlemen, our lives and liberties are preferved by this houfe, and the privileges are inheritable to us. I muft inform you, that Mr. Seymour attended the king yefterday, and he acquainted hi majefty with the unanimous c of him to be fpeaker,

and diffsolutions.

I am not afraid of it now, and I hope no man elfe here is afraid of it. I would not give the king offence, but not part with one hair of our right. If you will not stand to it here, you will have a great many things put upon you. I am fatisfied that we could not fix upon a fitter perfon for fpeaker than Mr. Seymour; he is a privy counfellor, treasurer of of the navy, and has done the king very good service here, which makes me wonder he should not be approved of by the king. I thought we could not have obliged the king more. The king faid, He would have no favourite but his people.' And thus to have our speaker rejected, what will you think of it! Pray, gentlemen, let us fleep upon it, and let the clerk put the question for adjourning till

to-morrow.

Sir Thomas Lee.] I fee it is the univerfal opinion to adjourn, &c. "therefore I fhall fay but a little. The last parliament, a little before the prorogation, information was given the houfe of the danger of the king's perfon, and the house addreffed the king, To have a care of his perfon, &c.' The anfwer was, The king was then bufy, but we fhould have an account of our message;' but for three weeks we heard nothing, and we were prorogued. I take notice only how things grow by degrees. We came up to this parliament with great joy, and expectation of doing good, and now we are thus interrupted! This being our condition, and we having precedents plain in the cafe for us, I would adjourn till to-morrow, and then make a reprefentation of the thing to the king.

Colonel Birch.] I am heartily forry this has happened. This is an unlucky ftumble at the threshold, before we get into the houfe. I came hither with an intention (God is my witnefs) to make this sa healing parliament. I have always heard here, that it is the undoubted right of this house to chufe their speaker, &c. I have reafon to believe Mr. Seymour very proper for the employment, and that he would be acceptable to his majefty; but he that did this with the king may do more. I would adjourn till to-morrow, and make a reprefentation of our right to the king.

Mr. Powle.] This gives me apprehenfion that there is fome perfon too near the king, who is afraid of this parliament, I have obferved that, of late, thofe things of the greatest moment are done without any council at all; done in a corner. As for the prorogation and diffolution of the laft parliament, there was not one word of the advice of the privy council in it. I fear no advice was asked, but given for fupporting the defigns of private men. I have ever taken the record to be, that no man was ever refufed being fpeaker when prefented to the king, but for fome difability of body; as in Sir John Popham's cafe, who defired to be excufed from that fervice by reafon of difability of body from wounds he received in the wars, 28 Hen. VI. And lately Sir Job Charlton, not being able to endure the employment, by reafon of difability of body But nothing of this can be objected against Mr. Seymour. Muft any private perfon inform the king of his unfitnefs, &c. without agy

caure