home. I move, that we may have Sir William Portman.] There is fome persons nominated, of emi- no precedent of a speaker presentnence about the king (though not ed to the king by the house, that privy counsellors, for they have has been rejected : and let us not the fole privilege of carrying make a precedent of addresling our messages) humbly to acquaint the king without a speaker, the king, · That the matter deli Mr. Leveson Gower.] I would • vered by my lord chancellor, in would have any man cite a prece• his name, is of fo great impor dent, whether ever any address

tance, that we defire some far was made to the king without a .ther time to consider of it: speaker ? (He spoke it roughly, and And then, no doubt, but we shall several younger gentlemen called aloud, acquit ourselves as we ought to do. • To the bar.) I move this way, because it should Mr. Vaughan.) Something muft not be said that we come to a halty be done ; and in this case we must resolution in so important a matter. create a precedentprime impreffionis. I move that Sir Robert Carr, the Was there ever any precedent that chancellor of the dutchy, may go so many met together, and do with the message to the king ; and nothing. I move you to make an I doubt not but we shall make out address to the king. our rights with all duty to the Sir Eliab Harvey. ] Our time is king

but short, and pray let us not Sir Rober Carr. ] I hụmbly mispend it. I will name another move you, that the privy coun to go to the king with Carr, Lord fellors may carry the message to Ruffel. the king. I was one, but I am Sir Christopher Musgrave.] I

I hope you will dif- conceive your proper question is, pense with me.

There are none " Whether an address shall be of the council here now, but I made to the king for a longer suppose they will be here.

time, &c. ?' And when that is Mr. Sacheverell.) If you stay over, then you are to nominate for the privy counsellors, the black persons to attend the king; and rod will come up to call you up, I shall name a third. &c. and those gentlemen of the Mr. Powle.] I would have the privy council are not here, and question be, - That an applicathen what will become of you? tion shall be made to the king that We have fent those to attend the the matter delivered by the lord king formerly who were no privy chancellor yesterday is of such counsellors, and I would have Carr great importance relating to the for one now.

Ipeaker, that we desire fome time Mr. Levefon Gower.] I would to consider of it.' know, whether ever the house The message was this : « That made an address to the king when • the matter delivered by the lord they had no speaker? I would have • chancellor yesterday is of such Sacheverell inform the house, great importance, that this house whether there be any precedent of « cannot immediately come to a that.

resolution therein ; therefore do

• humbly

not now.

humbly defire that his majesty Mr. Hampden.] Suppose the would be graciously pleased to king makes you no answer. Can

grant some farther time to take you give your country a better aco the matter into consideration." count and answer of what you

Ordered, That lord Ruffel, lord have done already, than that you Cavendish, fir Henry Capel, and were about to make an humble fir Robert Carr, do attend his ma- representation to the king ? I know jeity with this message.

no reason why we should not go Mr. Garroway ] I propose this about it presently; and that three to you; Whether, if the black or four may withdraw to prepare rod comes, we shall not go up with it, let the issue be what it will. this message ourselves ?

Mr. Williams.] In this you give Colonel Birch.) I hope this the king no occafion of offence. course is not taken about our This may possibly be called "A speaker to make those that sent us remonstrance.' But would not hither to mistrust us. Therefore I vapour with a petition, and I desire, that presently three or four would give no occasion of offence. gentlemen may be chosen, to draw Sir Edward Dering.) If Mr. up an humble petition to the king, Seymour be our speaker, we may in few words, to represent to his lie under the penalty of sool. for majesty with what heart we came acting before we are qualified, by up to serve him and those that taking the oaths, and subscribing chose us, and in order to that we the test, &c. at the table. I would have chosen a speaker; and then stay this matter moved for, till hope that we may not be made a you have an answer from the king. precedent of a thing that was Lord Russel reports, That, acá never done before, in rejecting our cording to command, they have speaker, that so we may go about attended the king, and his majesty the business of the nation.

is pleased to make this answer to Sir Har bottle Grimstone.] I fear the message, viz. , I have cono that such a petition to the king, as fidered your message, and do is proposed, may grant too much consent to

. a farther time for you of the point ; as that he is not to consider, till Tuesday next : speaker whom we have chosen, till And as I would not have my preke be approved of by the king. rogative encroached upon, fo I

Sir Thomas Lee.] The thing would not encroach upon your may be so drawn, as that we may privilege ; if a third person cannot yield the point in the least. not be found out for an expé

Mr. Broome Whorwood.] If this dient in the mean time.' be your right, keep it; if not,

[Debate. ) giye it up. I have fat long enough Serjeant Streete. When the here to see that our rights have difference was between the lords been attempted, and what is our and commons, in the case of Sir right I will never part with.

Samuel Barnardiston, which you Colonel Titus.] I think you are laboured under, , the king found not ripe for any such petition, till out an expedient. That being the you have an answer from the king case, I will presume to name a whether we shall have longer time third person for speaker. But granted to us or not.

be was not sufered.) VOL. VI.



Mr. Garroway.) You have had you time, so I would make use of a gracious answer from the king. it to search the lords books for If in this time we have not lessen- what the king has said by the chaned his prerogative in what we cellor, to hape your answer achave done, we may consider far- cordingly. ther of it; and as long as the king Mr. Williams.] The very words has given us time, I would con were,

• That the choice of the fider of it, and you may consider commons of their speaker was of it.

dismified.' Mr. Williams.] I wonder that Mr. Hampden.] I went to look now it should be proposed to name into the lords journal, and there is a third person, since the king has no entry made yet of

any thing, given you great time for delibera- but in the minute-book only; and tion. If you name a third person, what you do must be a debate you give up your right. I am as grounded upon

that. ready for Mr. Powle (named by Sir John Ernly.] Now you are Streete) as any man ; but your an- putting yourselves in a way to swer yesterday from the chancellor inform yourselves of the chancelwas about rejecting your speaker lor's speech, &c. and now it is fo by the king's prerogative. And freely declared on both sides, I will you set down and give up think it is well moved to adjourn your right for a compliment? If till Monday. so, farewell chusing a speaker for So the house adjourned till Monthe future ! Mr. Powle is a gen- day, by the clerk, as before. tleman of great value ; but let every man consider the right of Monday, March 10. the commons of England.

The fearch of the lords journal Sir John Knight. It is all one, was reported. if you name a second or third


Sir Tho. Lee.] I am son; it is equally giving up your those whom you commanded to right to name a third or a second. search the lords journal, and, ac. Here were

two in contest, and cording to the order of the house, both were equally named. I move, we went to the lords house, where therefore, that, as the king is we searched the journal, but we pleased to give us till Tuesday found no entry made, but some next, to consider, &c. to chule minutes of the lord chancellor's some person, &c. that we may speech in a paper; but the lord draw a petition to the king, to set chancellor had taken the paper to out our right in chusing a speaker. correct, and we should have them

Mr. Sacheverell.] I am not for as soon as they were done. any question at this time; because Mr. Sacheverell.] Seeing you many gentlemen know not what can do nothing with these minutes, was said by the chancellor to us I would do something,

without yesterday In this case, I would them, and not fit ftill till the lords send to search the lords books, to have adjourned till Tuesday. Tho' know whether a refusal or dif- I am confident of our right, yet missing our speaker is there enter at this time I would give the leaft ed. And as the king has given occasion of offence that might be,


one of

and proceed by such gentle steps been,' and wait his gracious anàs may give the king no cause of swer; and I doubt not but the offence e; nor those near the king, king will see that he is wrongfully to possess him that we have done informed in the matter, and will fo. I would look a little back, give such an answer as will satisfy and yet put no question upon it. the kingdom-And I propose that For this reason, I have taken some the question may be for a reprepains to look back how the house sentation, &c. has proceeded in things of this Mr. Hampden.] I wish this nature; and of those, the gentleft matter was come to such an end as proceedings. This is owned on might give fatisfa&tion both to the all hands, that anciently the king and the house. I am not yet Speaker made no excuse, nor had so clear as ftifly to assert our right, the house order from the king to nor keep up our claim. The king chuse a speaker. § Rich. II. and gave us a gracious answer, and it 2 Hen. IV. was the first excuse took exceedingly with me, and I that was made. But I would take would have you acknowledge it. notice of one thing. Though, of The right of election of our late, speakers, it is true, have speaker no man can contradict. If made excuses, &c. yet it is as the king has a right to chuse our true, that the king has admitted speaker, it had been most proper them speakers.

But they have when we were before the king. But made none, but by leave of this there is no distinction of privy house of commons.- 1 James, out counsellors from others in the of the journal : before the speaker house, that their presence is ne. was approved by the king, two ceffary when á speaker is chosen, or three days, the house not only or that they must propose him ; made an order to elect another unless they make a distinction of speaker instead of Sir Francis themselves. You have now chosen Bacon, but in this feffion 1 James, a gentleman for your speaker the king was advised, “That free. unanimously; one whom

you dom of speech, and the use of thought qualified for the employthe rest of the privileges of the ment, and who, you had reason to house of commons,

were ex

think, would have been acceptgratiâ, and not ex debito;' and able to the king. But if privy the king sent them a letter, That counsellors must propose a speaker, he was fatisfied with it.' But and necessarily be present at the the commons 'addressed farther, choice; if there be no privy coun. by

way of representation, how the fellors of the house, by that conusage of parliament had been, in fequence you must have no speaker. that matter, in an humble petition, But the chancellor said, • The that their privileges might be king had other employment for continued by way of decency, him.' Surely that was an but not to'yield their right. But temporary excuse, for a member as to the matter now before us, I of parliament ought not to be emwould only state the case to tlie ployed elsewhere. I hope that, king, by way of representation, in this matter, you will make such how ufage of parliament has a representation to the king, as


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may have a favourable answer, and Seymour twice chosen, Sir Robert so you may be let into the fervice Sawyer, and Sir Job Charlton were. of the king and kingdom; and I Sir Thomas Lee.) Ernly has would have some gentlemen with- moved you for a third person to be draw and pen it.

speaker ; but that cannot be, beSir John Ernly.) You have an cause there is no fecond person apundoubted right of election of pears; fo that can be no expedient. your speaker. It was hinted here, But what has been proposed about and confirmed by practice, That the representation is most modeft. no man was ever named here for Ernly says, That in i James, speaker by the secretaries of state, &c. the broad feal was not issued or the privy counsellors, in the out for some time after,' but yet the king's name;' for the choice is broad seal was issued out upon the in the commons, and it is une authority of the speaker's warrant doubted that the refusal of a precedent. The best thing you can speaker, when chofen, is of right dois, to leave the thing as it was bein the king. I will give you the fore you stirredit by the representaopinion of lawyers ; that election tion. I doubt not but when you is in one place, and approbation bring not the king in question, the in another; as in choice of bishops. king will let it standas it did. How When a person is named, probably in theworld could wechuse a person he is approved of by the king; more likely to fatisfy the king than it is a thing compounded, and ge- Mr. Seymour, who, as Ernly says, nerally, there is such an intimation has been twice approved ? Popthat he is acceptable both to the ham had been a soldier, and was king and the hoase. The king disabled by his wounds for the serhas declared, That he will not vice; and there a cause was afligna touch a hair of your privileges,' ed for disapproving the choice. If but as good lawyers as any in it be the king's prerogative to reEngland are of, opinion, that the ject, &c. as is pretended, such an king has and may disapprove of expedient, by representation, may As to that cited, I be found out.

If you do others James, of Serjeant Philips, who wise, you have spent so much time was chosen fpeaker, some things very ill, if you present another preparatory might be done, in or- speaker, and give all np. der to filling the house, &c. But Sir Thomas Clarges. ] No nonthe broad seal for the writs was not claimer, no disuser, can take away issued out for some time after. right of parliament, because all Allert the privilege of your elec- the people have an interest in it. tion as much as you please, but I A borough complains, That would make no more matter of it they have right of election of than to state the thing. But as to members of parliament, but it has the speaker's being constantly ap- been disused. The speaker thereproved by the king, you have upon sends his warrant to the clerk chosen a person that has always of the crown to issue out a writ been acceptable to him, and there. for election, &c. As for the opifore he has been always approved : nion of the long robe, &c. they as Sir Edward Turner, and Mr, may easily be miltaken in this mat


your choice.

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