fancy that the speaker is not made with that. I wonder that Mr. without the king's approbation; Seymour is absent; he knows not if so, we give up our right-Till what place to fit in, without difthe king approves, or rejects, it is pleasing the king. The king anhis choice of the speaker, and not swers your representation, that

I would have some gentle this is losing time, and there is man propose whether there may not nothing remaining upon your be an expedient in this case. books whom you have chosen for

Mr. Bennet.] This is playing speaker (for till you are qualified at French hot-cockles. I would by the tests you can enter nonot, in this, gratify the designs of thing ;). but it is entered upon the ill men, who have thrown this lords books, " That your choice bone amongst us. This is to back of Mr.Seymour is discharged, and and mount the colt with a snaffle, you are directed to chufe another and then to bring him on to a bitt and man.' And what privilege will curb. This great assembly is not to you gain by the expedient? When be bought nor fold, but, I fear, the the practice has been always with laft was. It is an expedient, that Mr. you of chufing, you will get no Seymour comes not to the house; reputation by an expedient. I his absence is an expedient; but would address the king again in ftill assert your right. I would not this, &c. and hope for success. have him that is named by the When secretary Williamson was privy council, (Meres) but some committed to the Tower, the lak other.

parliament, the commons had an Sir Thomas Lee.] I never took answer, &c. and rougher things that for an expedient, that was a followed: the act for the militia total quitting of your right. I was rejected. But if you address think, time is precious; but I do, again, I hope the king will answer not think that if this matter be you by the advice of his council. not quieted, the parliament will be Mr. Vaughan.) Your question diffolved. I have seen answers is not now, whether you fall infrom the king much blacker than fift upon Mr. Seymour for speaker, this. This case is of a very great &c. but your being called hither nature, and if once things of this to consult de arduis regni necotiis. kind come to be refined by di. When your privileges are invaded, stínctions in debate, we may refine what way have you to do what away the greatest privileges we you came hither for? I speak now have. One parliament called so because the parliament is ruiningfoon after another has not been for Perhaps our prince is misinformed, some time. That called in 1640 and he does not look upon our fąt but three weeks, and the king paper, nor consider it. Whatever repented half an hour after he had you do afterwards, press your par diffolved it, and then another was per now; but at the beginning of: called ; and there is no danger to a parliament, do not give up your the kingdom though we are sent right. away.

And wherein does a new Mr. Williams.) This is no lors parliament differ? They are the of time,' but will be loss of people fill in another partiament, right,' if you infift rot upon your and I hope no man will be alarmed privileges. And plainiy, if the

right be with us, shall we fit ftill, of a third person, it loses not our and let it be invaded? And you, liberty, but, I believe, gains a in parliament give away the right step. of parliament? Acquiesce in your

Mr. William Harbord.] I was right, one way or other, and have never reduced to so great a strait a fair question for it, and part not how to give my opinion, as I am with it so easily.

now. Did I think this was giving Colonel Birch.] I speak at this up your rights, I would be the time under some disorder and great last man that should give my confear. This matter before us re sent to it. I think the king has quires as great and serious confi- power to deny his approbation of deration as any thing that has hap- a speaker. Suppose it should fo pened in my time. When the last fall out that any parliament should parliament left things, many things make choice of a speaker to-day, concerning the gentlemen in the and that gentleman should be so Tower were undiscovered ; and unhappy as to wound any man, many were under the fear of it, and that man be in danger of his This is fo plain a thing, that life, and the king should say,, I scarce a man but will be descant am informed of such a thing :'ing upon this point. Undoubt. Or that the speaker you had chosen edly your speaker is chosen, had had a hand in this conspiracy and ought not to be rejected with of the papists---He was taken to out cause shown why; but those order by are not true consequences, “ That

Sir Harbottle Grimstone.) Really the king may, by the same reason, we are in great disorder, as to refuse all speakers and bills too. arguments, on both fides. The I desire to do that here, that, if point in debate is the king's apany mischief follows upon it, we probation and reprobation of a may anfwer it.

We have shown speaker chosen---As well give it our opinion of Mr. Seymour, and up and monstrari digitis The have stuck to him as long as we speaker we have chosen, Mr. Seycould. It seems, the king has oc mour, has declared his abilities--cafion for him, and you may chuse And some speakers may so spoil a a third person ; whoever does this, question that you may never do I am apt to think, will do more. any business. If the king has I defire none will prejudge - fuch a prerogative, that the king Greater things than this must be may say No,' to our choice, debated. Whoever threw in the it may serve a turn to knock an. bone, the king will see that we other speaker down as well as this, step over this to oblige him---I and for we shall become utterly ute hope he will let us go currently in less to the intent we were sent hiour business. The king's antiver ther for. In this great ftrait, if to me looks as if fome something an expedient could be found out, was resolved on, and then I doubt if we could make our claim on rewhether we are able to answer to cord, as well as the king's refusal God and those that seat us hither, in on the lords book; but that appears the result, if we too inuch infilt there, and ours does not, and is no upon our right, &c. In the choice where for us. As this now stands,


were there not something else in country, if we break upon this the case, we would easily part with point. If it be said, " That if it. It is a great advantage for the the king refuses one speaker, he king to set up his throne in the may refuse five hundred, and hearts of his people-There will has not refused any, thefe hunbe great difficulty in an expedi- dreds of years,' that is a strange ent in this matter; and that must inference." I think it the beft exbe with great patience and kind- pedient to chuse a third person. ness to hear one another. If the Mr. Garroway. ] I am not much king pleases to call Mr. Seymour frighted, nor much invited to fit, to the lords house, all is free and since I find, at the beginning, at liberty, and we may proceed to what entertainment you are likely the choice of another, and our to have at the latter end of the privileges will be safe, &c. But parliament. We are only unhappy since we are between two rocks, it that the king does not consider our becomes prudent men to go where representation- Let us try the the least danger is-But I know king, whether he will or no, for not what to propose.

one day. I would not yield up Sir Edward Dering.) I am not our right, and, I believe the king so fuperftitious, that, because we will find out an expedient, and stumbled at thethreshold, we should neither infringe your liberty nor leave off our journey ; and I hope his own prerogative. I have known we shall be at our journey's end. whole féffions defeated in a day, I hoped, that, after two or three by a prorogation, and if this be days, and the confideration of the done, by the same counsel it may merits of the person, and our be again. I pray that with all duty choice, the king would have ad. imaginable, the king may be farmitted Mr, Seymour, &c. But see- ther addressed in the matter ; and ing he does not, I would proceed if he will not give us an answers to another choice. There is no then I would put the question or precedent directly in the case, of our right. our power, &c. In this doubtful Sir Thomas Clarges.] This point case, I would consider in prudence of prerogative, that has stuck these what is to be done. All know our hundreds of years, will raise that dissatisfactions at home, and that other fcruple to break you. There we have a powerful enemy abroad. is great difference betwixt matters We have a restless faction at home of grace and matters of right. of papists. We are in a very bad This of chusing our speaker, &c. and helpless condition. Suppose is so much of the essence of parthe king should diffolve this par- liament, that we cannot part with liament, upon this point, and call it. When was any speaker, that another, it will be a discourage- was presented, ever refused ? If ment to gentlemen to come again; nothing of that be, but absolute and if there be no other conse- power in the king ; suppose five quence of our pains than to fit but ar fix subsidies should be demanda week, gentlemen will not be ed, and you make application to ambitious of that trust. Consider, the king, · That the commons whether we can anfwer it to the are poor and cannot raise them

You expose the honour of the house cern themselves in parliament, and to censure, if you give up your that is the reason they look not tight upon such a slight answer. I into those cases. But I believe, if would therefore address the king lord Coke had been here at this for a farther answer.

debate, he would have changed Sir Hugh Cholmondeley.] As his opinion. For continuance of far as I can guess, this question is this privilege for two hundred better left undetermined. If the years is great authority. But it is king can refuse a speaker, he may said, " Ab initio non fuit fic.'-It refuse several. If the king has not is a voluntary act, and no positive liberty, &c. he cannot displace, up- law; a thing done only out of on excuse of infirmity. We had respect to the king. It is said, better begin anew, and leave it as that a speaker has been rejected it was.

It was moved, " That by the king, and that is an evi. the king might cause nothing of dence of the king's power'.-But this matter to be entered upon this is materially on our side ; exthe lords journal.' I propose that ceptio probat regulam in non exceptis. way as most expedient.

Sir John Popham, who was rejectSir John Knight.) You have ad- ed, was sick. This person, Mr. journed that very debate to this Seymour, not disabling himself by day, and your right of chusing the any excuse, and being a person so speaker is your proper debate, and near the king as a counsellor, it is you can go upon nothing else. no breach of respect to the king to

Sir Harbottle Grimstone. ] It make another address, &c. I look has been our work four or five upon it as an undoubted privilege days to find out an expedient in of the people, and it may prove this matter, and we cannot. The fatal to give it up, when for two king has been so advised, that we hundred years never any speaker chuse any, member but one ; which was presented to the king, but is as much as to fay, · Chuse Popham, and he for the cause of whom you will but twenty.' Ex- his disability, &c. When Serjeant cept one, and except twenty. It Philips was chosen speaker, and was a faying of king James, • 'That placed in the chair, he issued out when he called a parliament, he his warrant for writs, and the great let down his prerogative to his fealobeyed them, before he was conpeople; but when he dissolved formed by the king. The king a parliament, he took it up again; fays, or generally by the lord not for his pleasure, but for his chancellor, Go, and chuse your power.' 'If one address will not speaker ;' not

< Go to your do, I am for a second and a third house, and 'chase whom I noto the king

minate,' but Chuse your speakSir John Hewley. ] I would serve er 'Shall this be taken arvay by my king and my country, but a fide-wind ? A facto ad ;:59TR cannot be in a capacity to give up valet consequentia. The speaker is the cause for ever. Shall not we our servant, and is he to obey his have our tongue to speak our own master, or no ? Thougii the speaks words ? As for that precedent in er be the greatelt commoner of Jord Coke, &c. judges do not con- England, yet he is not the great

body will deny that the choice of not have that argument pass, that if a speaker is in the house. Lord we chuse not another speaker, we Coke grants that the choice of a shall be dissolved. When once a fpeaker is a Congé d'elire-But the parliament is so fond of their bishop is chosen, in effect, and places, and so fearful of a diffolunamed by the king ; but the tion, that parliament did never do speaker is not. Let gentlemen any good. Gentlemen did not ex. . mcw me any law or usage to the peat such an answer from the king; contrary. If there be none, we but when I consider who was the have reason to think the king has counsellor of it, I wonder not at no right, &c. and something is all at it. I move you to adjourn at the bottom that we know not of. till to-morrow morning eight of A speaker has been chosen and the clock. laid aside; but never but-in case of disability; as in Sir John Pop The debate was according adham's case. Cheney was chosen journed by the clerk. here, and was excused, and Sir John Dorwood was chosen in his Wednesday, March 12. place, and till he came up to the Iords to be presented, &c. the king

the king (The adjourned debate resumed.] did not know of any body that was chosen.

We all know that Sir John Cloberry.] Moves, that anciently the first demand from the question may be put for chusthe commons was, That the ing another speaker. king would be pleased to con Mr. Trenchard.] The king has firm Magna Charta and Charta no right to reject our speaker, but de Forefta.' I would know whe. ancient usage has been to the conther the king had a right to annul trary. Consider the nature of the those laws; and that the people thing; if the case be doubtful, we were not punished for breaking ought to infilt upon it. It is a them ? I suppose this to be our great inconvenience to the house to right (for all are not of equal mo have no speaker ; and more for ment) and all are bound to assert the king ; and where it is fo, it it, yet not to venture their necks ought to turn the scales. We are upon it. This matter is not of told of · dangers abroad and at that last importance as to venture home.' But that is more to give the kingdom upon it. If the king warrant for us to give our rights denies one or two speakers, he away.

away. Those persons who formay deny ten, till he have one to merly have made misunderstand-. serve a turn : It is possible, but ings betwixt the king and parlianot probable. The words of the ment, I fee, will continue it ; as writ that calls us hither are, ' to yet you cannot honourably admit consult de quibufdam arduis regni of an expedient. At present, you negotiis'-and all that is to give have humbly addressed the king, money : an empty exchequer, and by way of representation of your a full house! Will the king lose case; and the king has given you his money, do you think, by put- such an answer as was never yet ting by forty speakers: I would given to any house of commons.


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