H. OF R.

Spanish American Provinces.

MARCH, 1818.

had indicated a disposition to take part with Spain. But the question of the interposition of the No such thing. She had sold some worm-eaten, allies, in the event of our recognising the new decayed, fir-built ships, to Spain, but the crews Republic, resolved itself into a question whether which navigated them were to return from the England, in such event, would make war upon port of delivery, and the quid she was to get, he us? If it could be shown that England would believed to be the Island of Minorca, in confor- not, it resulted either that the other allies would mity with the cardinal point of her policy. not, or that, if they should, in which case EngFrance was greatly interested in whatever would land would most probably support the cause of extend her commerce and regenerate her marine, | America, it would be a war without the mariand consequently, more than any other Power of time ability to maintain it. He contended that Europe, England alone excepted, was concerned England was alike restrained by her honor and in the independence of Spanish America. He by her interest from waging war against us, and did not despair of France, so long as France had consequently against Spanish America also, for a legislative body, collected from all its parts- an acknowledgment of the independence of the the great repository of its wishes and its will. new State. England has encouraged and foAlready had that body manifested a spirit of con-mented the revolt of the colonies as early as June, siderable independence; and those who were con- 1797. Sir Thomas Picton, Governor of Triniversant with French history, knew what mag- dad, in virtue of orders from the British Minister nanimous stands had been made by the Parlia- of Foreign Affairs, issued a proclamation, in which ments-bodies of limited extent-against the he expressly assures the inhabitants of Terra Royal prerogative, would be able to appreciate Firma that the British Government will aid in justly the moral force of such a legislative body. establishing their independence.* In prosecution While it exists, the true interests of France will of the same object Great Britain defrayed the be cherished and pursued, on points of foreign expenses of the famous expedition of Miranda. policy, in opposition to the pride and interests of the Bourbon family; if the actual dynasty, impelled by this pride, should seek to subserve these

interests.

England finds that, after all her exertions, she is everywhere despised on the Continent; her maritime power viewed with jealousy; her commerce subjected to the most onerous restrictions; selfishness imputed to all her policy. All the accounts from France represent that every party, Bonapartists, Jacobins, Royalists, Modérés, Ultras, all burn with indignation towards England, and pant for an opportunity to avenge themselves on the Power to whom they ascribe all their disasters. [Here Mr. C. read a part of a letter which he had just received from an intelligent friend at Paris, and which composed only a small portion of a mass of evidence to the same effect, which had come under his notice.] It was impossible, he said, that with Powers, between whom so much cordial dislike, so much incongruity existed, there could be any union or concert. Whilst the free principles of the French Revolution remained; those principles which were so alarming to the stability of thrones, there never had been any successful or cordial union; coalition after coalition, wanting this spirit of union, was swept away by the overwhelming power of France. It was not until after those principles were abandoned and Bonaparte had erected on their ruins his stupendous fabric of universal empire-not, indeed, until after the frosts of Heaven favored the cause of Europe, that an effective coalition was formed. No, said Mr. C., the complaisance inspired in the allies, from unexpected if not undeserved success, might keep them nominally together; but, for all purposes of united and combined action, the alliance was gone; and he did not believe in the chimera of their crusading against the independence of a country whose liberation would essentially promote all their respective interests.

England, in 1811, when she was in the most intimate relations with Spain, then struggling against the French power, assumed the attitude of a mediator between the colonies and the Peninsula. The terms on which she conceived her mediation could alone be effectual were rejected by the Cortes at the lowest state of the Spanish power. Among these terms England required for the colonies a perfect freedom of commerce, allowing only some degree of preference to Spain; that the appointment of Viceroys and Governors should be made indiscriminately from Spanish Americans and Spaniards; and that the interior government, and every branch of public administration should be intrusted to the Cabildo or Municipalities, &c. If Spain, when Spain was almost reduced to the island of St. Leon, then rejected those conditions, would she now consent to them, amounting, as they do, substantially to the independence of Spanish America? If England, devoted as she was at that time to the cause of the Peninsula, even then thought those terms due to the colonies, would she now, when no particular motive exists for cherishing the Spanish power, and after the ingratitude with which Spain has treated her, think that the colonies ought to submit to less favorable conditions? And would not England stand disgraced in the eyes of the whole world, if, after having

* The following is the passage read: "With regard to the hope you entertain of raising the spirits of those Persons with whom you are in correspondence, towards encouraging the inhabitants to resist the oppressive authority of their Government, I have little more to say than that they may be certain that whenever they are in that disposition, they may receive at your hands all the succors to be expected from His Britannic Majesty, be it with forces or with arms and ammunition to any extent; with the assurance that the views of His Britannic Majesty go no further than to secure to them their independence."

MARCH, 1818.

Spanish American Provinces.

H. OF R.

abetted and excited a revolution, she should now in the war; and Spain is expressly notified that attempt to reduce the colonies to unconditional submission, or should make war upon us for acknowledging that independence which she has herself sought to establish?

she cannot and must not expect aid from England. In the case of the struggle between Spain and her colonies, England, for once at least, had manifested a degree of wisdom highly deserving our imitation, but unfortunately the very reverse of her course had been pursued by us. She had so conducted, by operating upon the hopes of the two parties, as to keep on the best terms with both; to enjoy all the advantages of the rich commerce of both. We had, by a neutrality bill containing unprecedented features; and still more by a late Executive measure, to say the least of it, of doubtful Constitutional character, contrived to dissatisfy both parties. We had the confidence of neither Spain nor the colonies.

Mr. C. said, it remained for him to defend the proposition which he meant to submit, from an objection which he had heard intimated, that it interfered with the duties assigned to the Executive branch. On this subject he felt the greatest solicitation; for no man more than himself respected the preservation of the independence of the several departments of Government, in the Constitutional orbits which were prescribed to them. It was his favorite maxim that each, acting within its proper sphere, should move with its Constitutional independence, and under its Constitutional responsibility, without influence from any other. He was perfectly aware, that the Constitution of the United States, and he admitted the proposition, in its broadest sense, confided to the Executive the reception, and the

No guarantee for the conduct of nations or individuals ought to be stronger than that which honor imposes; but for those who would put no confidence in its obligations, he had an argument to urge of more conclusive force. It was founded upon the interest of England. Excluded almost as she is from the Continent, the commerce of America, South and North, is worth to her more than the commerce of the residue of the world. That, to all Spanish America, had. been alone estimated at fifteen millions sterling. Its aggregate value to Spanish America and the United States might be fairly stated at upwards of one hundred millions of dollars. The effect of a war with the two countries would be to divest England of this great interest, at a moment when she is anxiously engaged in repairing the ravages of the European war. Looking to the present moment only, and merely to the interests of commerce, England is concerned more than even this country in the success of the cause of independence in Spanish America. The reduction of the Spanish power in America has been the constant and favorite aim of her policy for two centuries; she must blot out her whole history; reverse the maxims of all her illustrious statesmen; extinguish the spirit of commerce which animates, directs, and controls all her movements, before she can render herself accessary to the subjugation of Spanish America. No commercial "In arguing, therefore, for the advantages of a advantages which Spain might offer her by treaty strict neutrality, we must enter an early protest against could possess the security for her trade which any imputations of hostility to the cause of genuine independence would communicate. The one freedom, or of any passion for despotism and the inwould be most probably of limited duration, and quisition. We are no more the panegyrists of legitiliable to violation from policy, from interest, or mate authority in all times, circumstances, and situa from caprice. The other would be as permanent tions, than we are advocates for revolution in the abas that independence. That he did not mistake stract," &c. "But it has been plausibly asserted, the views of the British cabinet, the recent proc- South America we are surrendering to the United that by abstaining from interference in the affairs of lamation of the Prince Regent, he thought, States all the advantages which might be secured to proved. The Committee would remark that that ourselves from this revolution; that we are assisting to document did not describe the patriots as rebels increase the trade and power of a nation which alone or insurgents, but, using a term which he had no can ever be the maritime rival of England. It appears doubt had been well weighed, it declared the to us extremely doubtful whether any advantage, comexistence of a "state of warfare." And with re-mercial or political, can be lost to England by a neugard to English subjects, who were in the armies of Spain, although they had entered the service without restriction as to their military duties, it required that they should not take part against the colonies. The subjects of England freely supplied the patriots with arms and ammunition, and an honorable friend of his (Mr. JOHNSON) had just received a letter from one of the West India islands, stating the arrival there from England of the skeletons of three regiments, with many of the men to fill them, destined to aid the patriots. In the Quarterly Review, of November last, a journal devoted to the Ministry, and a work of the highest authority, as it respects their views, the policy of neutrality is declared and supported as the true policy of England; and that, even if the United States were to take part

tral conduct; and it must be observed that the United States themselves have given every public proof of their intention to pursue the same line of policy. But, admitting that this conduct is nothing more than a decent pretext; or admitting, still further, that they will afford to the independents direct and open assistance, our view of the case would remain precisely the same," &c. "To persevere in force unaided, is to misation. To expect the aid of an ally in such a cause calculate her (Spain's) own resources, even to infatuwould, if that ally were England, be to suppose this country as forgetful of its own past history as of its immediate interests and duties. Far better would it be for Spain, instead of calling for our aid, to profit by our experience; and to substitute, ere it be too late, for efforts like those by which the North American colonies were lost to this country, the conciliatory measures by which they might have been retained."

H. OF R.

Spanish American Provinces.

MARCH, 1818.

And if he had been so fortunate as to communicate to the Committee, in anything like that degree of strength in which he entertained them, the convictions that the cause of the patriots was just; that the character of the war, as waged by Spain, should induce us to wish them success; that we had a great interest in that success; that this interest, as well as our neutral attitude, required us to acknowledge any established Government in Spanish America; that the_united provinces of the river Plata was such a Govern

deputation of Ministers. But, in relation to the There was great reason, Mr. C. contended, latter operation, Congress had a concurrent will from the peculiar character of the American in the power of providing for the payment of Government, in there being a perfect understandtheir salaries. The instrument nowhere said, or ing between the legislative and Executive branchimplied, that the Executive act of sending a es, in relation to the acknowledgment of a new Minister to a foreign country should precede the Power. Everywhere else the power of declaring legislative act which shall provide for the pay-war resided with the Executive. Here it was ment of his salary. And, in point of fact, our deposited with the Legislature. If, contrary to statutory code was full of examples of legislative his opinion, there were even a risk that the acaction prior to Executive action, both in relation knowledgment of a new State might lead to war, to the deputation of agents abroad, and to the it was advisable that the step should not be subject-matter of treaties. Perhaps the act of taken, without a previous knowledge of the will sending a Minister abroad, and the act providing of the war-making branch. He was disposed to for the allowance of his salary ought to be sim- give to the President all the confidence which he ultaneous; but if, in the order of precedence, must derive from the unequivocal expression of there were more reason on the one side than on our will. This expression he knew might be the other, he thought it was in favor of the pri- given in the form of an abstract resolution, deority of the legislative act, as the safer depositary claratory of that will; but he preferred, at this of power. When a Minister is sent abroad, al-time, proposing an act of practical legislation. though the Legislature may be disposed to think his mission useless, although, if previously consulted, they would have said they would not consent to pay such a Minister, the duty is delicate and painful to refuse to pay the salary promised to him whom the Executive has even unnecessarily sent abroad. Mr. C. illustrated his ideas by the existing missions to Sweden and to the Netherlands. He had no hesitation in saying, that if we had not Ministers of the first grade there, and if the Legislature were asked, prior to sending them, whether it would consent to payment; that we might safely acknowledge its inMinisters of that grade, that he would not, and he dependence, without danger of war from Spain, believed Congress would not, consent to pay them. from the allies, or from England; and that, withIf it be urged that, by avowing our willingness, out unconstitutional interference with the Execin a legislative act, to pay a Minister not yet utive power, with peculiar fitness, we might exsent, and whom the President may think it im- press, in an act of appropriation, our sentiments, proper to send abroad, we operate upon the Pres- leaving him to the exercise of a just and responident by all the force of our opinion; it may be sible discretion, he hoped the Committee would retorted that when we are called upon to pay adopt the proposition which he now had the 'any Minister, sent under similar circumstances, honor of presenting to them, after a respectful we are operated upon by all the force of the Pres- tender of his acknowledgments for their attention ident's opinion. The true theory of our Govern- and kindness, during, he feared, the tedious pement at least supposes that each of the two de-riod he had been so unprofitably trespassing upon partments, acting on its proper Constitutional their patience. He offered the following amendresponsibility, will decide according to its best ment to the bill: judgment, under all the circumstances of the case. If we make the previous appropriation, we act upon our Constitutional responsibility, and the President afterwards will proceed upon his. And so if he make the previous appointment. We have a right, after a Minister is sent abroad, and we are called upon to pay him, and we ought to deliberate upon the propriety of his mission-we Mr. FORSYTH said, that before entering into may and ought to grant or withhold his salary. the examination of the subject before the ComIf this power of deliberation is conceded subse-mittee, he would detain them for a moment by quent to the deputation of the Minister, it must a remark or two on a suggestion that had fallen exist prior to that deputation. Whenever we so from the Speaker, so remotely connected with deliberate, we deliberate under our Constitutional the question, that he should probably forget it if responsibility. Pass the amendment he proposed, he omitted to notice it then. It had been said and it would be passed under that responsibility. that Ministers were sent from the United States Then the President, when he deliberated on the to all the crowned heads in Europe who had propriety of the mission, would act under his Ministers here. A Chargé d'Affaires to the UniConstitutional responsibility. Each branch of ted States was reciprocated by a Minister PlenGovernment, moving in its proper sphere, would ipotentiary to the Court from whence he came, act with as much freedom for the influence of the and the Courts of Sweden, Holland, and Prussia, other as was practically attainable. had been particularly named. The last is one

"For one year's salary, and an outfit to a Minister to the United Provinces of the Rio de la Plata, the salary to commence, and the outfit to be paid whenever the President shall deem it expedient to send a Minister to the said United Provinces, a sum not exceeding eighteen thousand dollars."

When Mr. CLAY had concluded,

MAROH, 1818.

Spanish American Provinces.

H.or R.

to which a Minister was expected to be sent, par- worthy of the exertions of all his industry, abilticular information of which fact Mr. F. was ity, and enthusiasm-that the freedom and hapsupposed to possess. But for this personal allu- piness of eighteen millions of people were, in sion he should not have felt himself compelled to truth, involved in its decision. Mr. F. had in vain refer to this subject [Mr. CLAY explained.] Mr. tasked his imagination to discover that such conF. understood perfectly well that there was no sequences could follow from it. He could not unfriendly spirit in the remark, it was an allusion perceive the miraculous influence of appropriatto an event which was expected to occur, but ing eighteen thousand dollars for an outfit and upon what foundation he had been at a loss to salary for a Minister to La Plata, to commence conjecture. Certain it was, he had no intima- when, in the discretion of the President, a Mintion that this or any other diplomatic appoint- ister should be sent to that Government. All ment would be offered to him, and it was equally the facts stated by the Speaker might be admitcertain that he had not solicited any. An idle ted, the arguments founded upon them might be rumor was in circulation that he was to be sent considered as conclusive, still the amendment abroad, where, the persons circulating it, had not proposed ought not to be adopted. How obvious, determined. He hoped to be consulted as to the then, must be the propriety of rejecting it, when place of exile, when he was to be sent into hon- the facts were disputable and the reasoning inconorable banishment. The Administration had not, clusive. Admitting the independence of La he believed, determined to send a Minister to Plata to be established; that it was the right and Prussia, of any grade. There was a mistake as the duty of the United States to recognise that to the fact, in the case of Holland. The Gov- independence; that war with Spain or any other ernment of the Netherlands had sent a Minister Power would not follow; that our interest and of the first grade to the United States, before Mr. our honor required this step to be taken-still the Eustis went to the Hague. At present there was amendment ought to be rejected. If recognition is only a Chargé here, and it was altogether prob- made, it is to be done in the United States. We able that the interest of the United States would are to acknowledge their independence; to send not require a representative of a different char- a Minister to La Plata is to ask them to acknowacter in the Netherlands. The appointments to ledge ours. A Minister must be sent to, and acthe Hague and to Sweden, had been made by credited by this Government. It had not as yet Mr. Madison, under circumstances requiring appeared that the Government of La Plata dethem. With regard to Sweden, the motive for sired or expected us to make such an acknowledgthe original appointment was well known. It ment; at least no one with requisite authority was made at a period when, from the peculiar was known to have been sent to this country for situation of Europe, Sweden was an important the purpose of asking such a favor. Another Power. She was the key stone of the arch of objection, not less obvious, was presented by the the great confederation against France, and it Constitutional division of the powers of the Govwas part of our policy at that period to stand well ernment. Heretofore the President and Senate with all the Powers in the north of Europe. The were left to the exclusive management of the restoration of peace certainly rendered this mis- foreign intercourse of the United States. Minsion of minor importance; and when the Minis-isters were received from other Powers, and sent ter of the United States came home, it was not expected that he would again return to fix his official residence at Stockholm. Why he returned to Sweden was as well known to the honorable Speaker as to any member of the House. Mr. F. was confident that he would not remain

there.

Was the importance of the amendment proposed to be estimated by the interest it excited, and the extraordinary manner in which it had been presented, few subjects of equal magnitude had ever been submitted to the decision of the National Legislature. That the deep interest felt in the fate of the measure, was not confined to those who were to decide upon it, was apparent from the crowded benches of the Hall and the overflowing gallery. For ourselves, the Throne of Grace had been that morning addressed to purify our hearts and enlighten our understandings for its correct decision. Every one must be struck by the whimsical contrast between the real and factitious importance of the proposition. To judge from the extraordinary exertions of the Speaker, from the ground over which he travelled and the variety of objects noticed by him, it would seem he believed it

from this country to other Governments, with whom political or commercial interest required us to negotiate, and the House of Representatives contented itself with its Constitutional check upon the exercise of this authority; satisfied that they could at all times prevent its improvident exertion by withholding appropriations from those missions, the public interest did not require. This, however, proposes a new system; this House, instead of checking, is made to stimulate the Executive to a further extension of its patronage. This new system might have its conveniency, but these would be found on examination to be personal conveniences to aspiring and designing members of the Legislative body, at the expense of the general welfare. The suggestion that, under the present extraordinary circumstances of the world, the expression of the public opinion by the Representatives of the people ought to precede the movements of the Executive, was not entitled to the weight which was given to it. The President does not require to be told that the Representatives of the people who selected him to preside over their Government, are prepared at all times, and at every hazlard, to do their duty. He dare not doubt that he