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have had a chain of rates or gradation is not exactly like you saw
of rates as in steam service. The $3.00 Pennsylvania.
rate in passenger service is for all elec-
tric locomotives regardless of weight,
and is the same as for steam service at
140,000 pounds on drivers.

In fixing a rate for electrical passenger firemen we picked the rate of 140,000 pounds and less than 170,000 pounds on drivers, of the steam service. You will note it is only the fourth rate of a chain of twelve.

on the

The Chairman: I understand. Mr. Carter: The New York Central and the New York, New Haven & Hartford I do not believe have that same class of locomotives. They have a large single unit, and I think the single unit is heavier perhaps than one-half of the locomotives you saw.

The Chairman: I have seen more than you think I saw.

Mr. Carter: Maybe you have been over the New York Central, too?

It was not deemed to be fair that the electric fireman should take the lowest rate. It was believed that we should The Chairman: I have made two or take a rate that would take everything three trips over the New York Central. into consideration. Take freight fireMr. Carter: Then I will not tell you men: $3.25 for freight is 5 cents higher something you already know. Now, they than the steam rate on locomotives take those two huge separate locomotives 1000,000 pounds and less than 140,000 and couple them together and the same pounds, which is a small steam locomo- crew handles them. Therefore, you will tive compared with the modern locomo- notice we are asking for the same rate of tives of today. pay when the two locomotives coupled together.

The $2.80 for switching service was the same as asked for the larger engines

in steam service.

The Chairman: Then you would abandon the weight on drivers proposi

tion as to the electric locomotives?

are

one to me when I heard it. I do not The word electric fireman was a new know exactly how a man can work on an evidently the Committee thought so. electric locomotive and be a fireman, but tion or name given by the Pennsylvania be frank with you, I think the appelaRailroad is more nearly accurate, an electrical motorman's helper.

To

Mr. Lee: An electrical engineman's

helper.

helper and assistant
Mr. Carter: Yes. He is an assistant;
the same

mean

Mr. Carter: No. There is just where I think we have been consistent. The weight on drivers of the electric locomotives is always heavier than the average weight of steam locomotives. They generally rank with the heaviest steam locomotives, and when they work in switching service you find that the thing; he is largely an assistant to the electrical switch fireman has every electric engineman. responsibility that a steam fireman has except in the amount of coal the steam fireman would shovel. The electric fireman will do more work and has more responsibility outside of the actual shoveling of the coal than the steam fireman would on a smaller locomotive.

We have regard for other electrical firemen than those which exist today. We have regard for the fact, if we are to believe the newspapers, that they are going to increase rapidly in the near future. We have asked for a uniform rate for these regardless of how big they get, and they get awfully big. They not only get awfully big, but they put two of them together. Right here on some of these roads, I understand on the New York, New Haven & Hartford for one, when one of their huge electric locomotives cannot pull a train, they couple two together, and the same crew operates the two electric locomotives. We are not making any difference even if they put three on. That is all we are asking.

I understand, and I have been told, that it is not an uncommon thing to operate two electrical locomotives; when the train gets so big and so heavy that one huge electric locomotive cannot haul it, they simply back up another and couple on to it, and cut in the circuit, and the same crew handles the two locomotives. We are asking for the same rate of pay if they have a dozen. That

The Chairman: They call him an assistant on the New York Central?

Mr. Carter:

this respect a fireman, I guess he smells While they call him in is, he is a helper and assistant; he is an as sweet under any other name. The fact assistant to the engineer.

I noticed that the man on the trip we made only did one thing. He watched every signal and he never failed to call that signal, and that motorman never failed to answer that signal; it was simply a checking up between the motorman and his assistant of every signal they saw in that tunnel and after they got out of the tunnel. It is true that he reached up and pulled the bell once in a while. I don't know whether you asked him or not, but I asked him, "Do you ever have much work to do back in the engine?" and he says, "No, if anything goes wrong, I would have to; but it does not often go wrong." He says, "My principal duty is to watch the signals, and I am required to call every signal and the engineman is required to repeat it back to me." And I sat there by the side of them, and they were mumbling something to each other all the time, and they mumbled all right, but whenever one man said anything the other called it back to him.

The Chairman: On both roads the assistant, or whatever you called him, very candidly told me that he preferred the job to that on a steam engine.

Mr. Carter: I think that is right, and if you had asked him if he preferred the other job of operating that engine, he would have told you, yes, just as frankly; and, if you had asked him if he preferred the job of master mechanic, he would have told you, yes.

lowest dregs of society. And what is the result? Lawrence, with the I. W. W. Let us hope that nothing of this kind will ever occur in the railroad industry.

What happened in the printing trades? When Otto Mergenthaler in this city invented what we now know as the linotype-the poor fellow died of tuberculosis shortly after perfecting his invention-there was a certain class of

machines.'

to

The Chairman: The engineers in both instances told me the same thing, that they preferred the job on the electric engine. But you are asking here for this printers who said, "Now we are going helper on the electric engine in all to smash the Typographical Union, we classes of passenger service at a higher boards for half the money we are paywill hire girls operate these keyrate I do not want to be mistaken ing the printers." And there was a cerabout that-but at a higher rate than tain class of printers who said, "We are they get on the steam engine, because nearly all the passenger service with going to oppose the introduction of these steam engines is with engines less than two unions, a union of employes and a But fortunately there were 170,000 pounds. While you ask a uniunion of employers. The United Tyform rate of $3.00 for the helper on the electric engine, which is applicable to pothetae was just as strong a union of engines of all weights, the truth is that employers as the International Typonearly all the service he would render in ployes, and they got together and said, graphical Union was a union of empassenger service would be on engines Here, there is something in this for under 170,000 pounds. Mr. Carter: That is true, and I must able to make immense profits out of the everybody. The employing printer will be confess that the principal reason for so new machine; the public will be able to doing is because of the economic prin- get for a penny a newspaper for which ciple. We recognize that the time will they formerly paid five cents; and we come some day when steam firemen will will see that the employe, the poor be very scarce in many localities; and printer, will not get less." And so, by we believe that if one class of machinery mutual agreement between the United is substituted for another, that it should Typothetae the union of employers, and not result in reducing either the rate of the International Typographical Union, or the standard of living. The they preserved for the old printer, who economic feature is the principal feature had spent years learning his trade, not in the whole electrical question. I think only the same wage, but a better wage, the same applies to the engineer as to the when he learned to operate that keyassistant engineer, or what we call the board, which the printer could do in three months time in this city. Not only I read a book once, in my grand- that, but instead of trying to crush the old father's library, an English mechanical printers out of existence and hire cheap book published before Cyrus McCormick girls in their place, as they did in the was of age, and before he ever patented textile industry with the advent of new anything. In that book was an account machinery, they provided schools of inof the wrecking of threshing machinery struction for the old printers, the owners in the North of England by the English and employers did, and the employes' farm laborers. The account was given union, the International Typographical of a trial in a certain wheat field, and Union, provides for schools of instrucwhen that machine was found to dis- tion; and these old printers-and young place so many men with sickles and hand printers for that matter, who found it into a great number of pieces. scythes, they rushed in on it and broke themselves practically without employ

wage

fireman.

ment, because of the substitution of new

methods of production-instead of doing that, the employer and the employe, through their respective unions, joined hands and saved the printer.

I hope that the employing railroad of

Now, anything of that kind is wrong, and whenever working people attempt to defeat economic progress or development, they make a serious mistake. But if the of any other day finds that the employer, ficials will do as well, that is all, if he workingman of today or of yesterday or for another, is going to rob him of his or electric locomotives for steam locomolivelihood, you may expect him to do tives. I hope that as we have seen the radical things and wrong things, even so highly paid mill worker in the steel inbe that if a new device is of great profit ployes in the textile industries displaced economic principle, it seems to me, would from Europe, and the better paid em

far

as

violation of the law.

loss to the employe.

The dustries substituted by the latest arrival

girls-I hope that the railroads will not

I think we referred to what has hap- go down to Ellis Island and find people,

pened in the textile industries.

As the

or go to the street cars and find people,

employer has found immense profit in to operate their trains in the future, new machinery, the employe has found simply because they can: I sincerely himself or herself driven down to the hope not, and that is the real animus of

the whole movement of both the Brother- American people want the railroads to get hood of Locomotive Engineers and the a fair and equitable standard rate for Brotherhood of Locomotive Firemen and transportation of passengers and emEnginemen, which is to preserve the ployes. Of course, I understand there has economic standing of American citizens; been some very radical legislation, but the and that is the reason why we are asking general idea is that they think they are that, more than any other reason. I will doing right; now, what is good for the confess to you, you can get a man to employer is good for the employe, and if run a street car very cheaply, and in we have abandoned the school of thought some cities they do. I will confess to of supply and demand, when it comes to you that a street car man might be handling passengers and transporting taught to run a locomotive in time. I freight, then let us be consistent and rewill confess to you that the employing member that the fireman, the engineer, printers could have gotten girls from the the conductor and every other employe of typewriting agencies to come in and the railroad should not be requested to learn that business, but they did not, and compete with the supply that we find I sincerely hope that the railroad em- here in the Bay. I will confess that if ployers will not. That is the feature we are to give way to the latest arrivals, right there; that is worth more than all the outlook is dismal for this country; the difference in the labor. Shall we therefore, I do not believe that supply maintain American manhood, or shall we and demand should control; I believe take advantage of changes in machinery that the standard of American living has to depress American manhood? a great deal to do with it.

Those of you who remember the newspaper accounts of the great Carnegie strike at Homestead, will remember that the headlines showed that because of the union there they were making $16 a day, by contract, piece-work, in handling that metal, rolling that metal; what are they getting now? If we are to believe a report issued by the Bureau of Labor of the United States Government, just as soon as a common laborer in the steel mill of the Steel Trust learns to talk English and hear of the American conditions, they bring another load from Ellis Island, and that fellow goes out and does some other work. If that is the way the employers in this country are to make money, I hope this Commission will prevent them doing it, so far as electrical locomotives are concerned.

With regard to the supply and demand theory

The Chairman: You remember, Mr. Carter, I believe, that the testimony on the stand here shows that up to the present time, at least, so far as your fear is concerned, that those railroads which adopted electricity as a motive power in handling their trains, they advertised the second man's place on these locomotives among the firemen of their roads, and will give them all the preference.

My attention is called to another fact, that there are only 98 electric firemen reported in the Exhibit; is that true?

I will just make this statement, and then I will quit.

The Chairman: Now, Mr. Carter, we have gone beyond the half past twelve. Mr. Carter: I will finish this in the brief.

The Chairman: I see you have not reached a point where you would like to conclude, and we will allow you half an hour after lunch.

Mr. Carter: I would rather not, because the half hour will only bring me a little further along, and I will quit, and I will write up this and supply it in the brief, and I will call attention to the fact that the roads only report 98 electric firemen in their exhibit, but I understand from Mr. Lee that there are other firemen

that are used indiscriminately between the steam and electricity, that were not included.

Mr. Lee: The electric firemen of the New York, New Haven & Hartford are included in their steam firemen, and I think there is a notation in the book to that effect.

Just read that letter, Mr. Carter.
Mr. Carter: You read it.

Mr. Carter: For which we express Mr. Lee: Just a moment; there is a gratification; and we would like to estab- letter that I wish to read. The letter is lish here, as was done in the Engineer's not addressed to the Board, but it is a Arbitration, something that will show matter that Mr. Carter and myself desire that there is an economic feature here, to make a matter of official record. It is as well as the feature of supply and de- to Mr. George C. Boldt, at the Waldorfmand. Now, the supply and demand Astoria Hotel. "Dear Sir: The Conferfeature was brought in by one of the wit- ence Committee of Managers of the Eastnesses for the companies. What factor ern Railroads and the Brotherhood of Locontrolls other than supply and demand? comotive Firemen and Enginemen desire Is one railroad permitted to underbid to express their thanks and appreciation another railroad to get traffic? I guess for the courteous treatment received from not. If you are to place the theory of the management and staff of the Waldorfsupply and demand in effect with locomotive firemen, then put it in effect on railroads and let any railroad haul just as cheaply as it will. It is not practical to do that. I do not believe anyoody wants that done. I believe that the mass of the

Astoria Hotel Company in providing free of charge audience rooms and other accommodations for conducting the hearings in the arbitration proceedings which have been in progress from March 10th to date.

We desire also to thank the staff of the

Hotel Company for the considerate and to soliciting subscriptions for our Magaefficient attention received at their hands. zine.

Yours very truly,

ELISHA LEE,

Chairman, Conference Committee of
Managers.

W. S. CARTER,
President B. of L. F. and E."

The Chairman: On behalf of the members of the Board, I express not only our endorsement of this courteous act on the part of the representatives of the two interests in this arbitration, but the Board itself desires to place on record along with this act on the part of Mr. Lee and Mr. Carter, in expressing the appreciation not only of the Board, but of the individual members of the Board as well, for the many courtesies which have been extended to us by the hotel management, and to express to the representatives of the press, who have been present here, our thanks for what we think has been the fair and impartial character of their reports in the daily papers, so far as we have been able to see them.

Sparks.

(Conclusion.)

A new book of beautiful poems entitled, "In the Corner Where the Lavender Grows," by Adelbert Clark, can be purchased for $1.00 per copy. Send remittances direct to Adelbert Clark, Lakeport, N. H.

Why not earn a little extra money by soliciting subscriptions for the B. of L. F. and E. Magazine? For particulars, write John F. McNamee, Editor and Manager, Traction Terminal Building, Indianapolis, Ind.

The Colorado Second Annual Joint State Convention of the B. of L. F. and E. and Ladies Society, B. of L. F. and E., will be held in Salida, Colo., on the 21st, 22d and 23d of the present month (July). All who can possibly arrange to attend should be present. A cordial invitation is extended to all members of the Brotherhood and Ladies Society.

When sending a communication to this Have a few application blanks with office for publication, be sure to sign you always so that you can hand one your name, otherwise it cannot be pubto any non-brotherhood fellow worker lished. We cannot give anonymous comyou may meet who is eligible to member- munications attention. If you so desire, ship in the B. of L. F. and E. Many your name will be withheld from publisuch men are just waiting for some one cation. to bring to their attention the matter of joining our order.

All letters sent to the Magazine office must bear the signature of the writer, We have no time to give attention to anonymous communications.

Since our Magazine is being printed in Columbus, Ohio, it is necessary that

we close our mailing list each month earlier than heretofore. All changes of address should, therefore, be in

our hands not later than the tenth of the month to be effective with the issue of the following month.

As the Directory is corrected up to

Our members are warned to be on their guard against one R. A. Stevens, referred to in the "Sparks" column of the June the 10th of February, May, August and Magazine and in Official Circular of May November all notifications of changes of 28th, who, information indicates, is now address, etc., to traveling under the name of Sherman and should be in the hands of the General representing himself as an agent for the Secretary and Treasurer not later than Travelers' Life Insurance Company.

The

appear in Directory

the first of the months named.

Every member is requested to read next quarterly St. Louis, Mo., with care notice appearing at the head Joint Union Meeting of the B. of L. E. of the Brotherhood Department before and the B. of L. F. and E. will be held sending matter to the Magazine office in that city on the 12th of the present for publication. month (July).

A cordial invitation is

extended to all who can possibly ar

range to attend.

Brothers who have held membership in the B. of L. F. and E. continuously for twenty-five years are entitled to one

Write John F. McNamee, Editor and of the twenty-five year lapel buttons Manager, Traction Terminal Bldg., In- provided for by the Twenty-sixth Condianapolis, Ind., for information relative vention (Washington, D. C.). Applica

tion for same should be made to the year 1913 will prove a profitable inGeneral Secretary and Treasurer, vestment. Same will be sent prepaid to Brother A. H. Hawley, Peoria, Ill. any point in the United States for $3.00 or to Canada and Mexico for $4.00 subWe urgently request that recording ject to duty. Remit to John F. Mcsecretaries on receiving lodge mailing Namee, Editor and Manager, Traction list for correction do not make up a new Terminal Building, Indianapolis, Ind. list but instead make all necessary changes on the list sent them from the Magazine office adding thereto the names and addresses of members of their lodge that do not appear thereon and return same to us.

Elsewhere in this issue will be found the program of the Canadian Grand Union Meeting to be held in Calgary, Alta., Canada, on the 3d, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th of August next. Every brother who can so arrange should attend, accompanied by members of his family.

Although the Magazine is being printed at Columbus, Ohio, the editorial This event affords an opportunity for offices are still located at Indianapolis, Ind. All correspondence should, therefore, be directed to us at Indianapolis.

"Sparks and Cinders" a new book of excellent poems by Brother Killingsworth is now on sale. Single copy $1.50. In club lots of ten or over to Brotherhood men $1.25. Send all orders by express or postal money order to J. A. Killingsworth, St. Thomas, Ont., Can

ada.

sight seeing pleasures that are unsurpassed, as well as profitable and pleasing entertainment, while matters of great importance regarding Brotherhood affairs will be discussed at the secret sessions.

It was originally intended to send the mailing lists to the different lodges for correction quarterly, but it was found to involve such an enormous amount of work as to be impracticable with our present office force, and it has therefore been decided to send them semi-annually, as it is believed that almost as good results will follow.

Information received at this office indicates that one R. A. Stevens, who has been representing himself as an insurance inspector for the Brotherhood in the Send fifty cents to John F. McSouthern States, and claiming to have Namee, Editor and Manager, Traction credentials signed by President Carter Terminal Bldg., Indianapolis, Ind., for and General Secretary and Treasurer a copy of the "Catechism of the Electric Hawley, reference to which was made in Headlight" (a pocket size booklet) tothe "Sparks" column of the June Maga- gether with supplement on the Pyle Nazine as well as in Official Circular of May tional Equipment "E" with folders. It 28th, is now traveling under the name of contains over 300 questions and anSherman and representing himself as an agent for the Travelers' Life Insurance Company. He is a fraud and imposter, and no information should be given him.

For full particulars relative to the Colorado Second Annual Joint State Convention of the B. of L. F. and E. and Ladies Society B. of L. F. and E. to be held in Salida, Colo., on the 21st, 22d and 23d of the present month, write Brother C. R. Wilson, Secretary, Lodge 140, 332 E. 4th St., Salida, Colo., or Brother C. L. O'Neal, Lodge 344, 622 E. Main St., Trinidad, Colo.

When writing the Magazine office please give street number after your signature.

Locomotive men desirous of adding to their store of mechanical knowledge will find that a bound volume of the B. of L. F. and E. Magazine for the

swers.

Our Canadian brothers are leaving nothing undone to make the Calgary Grand Union meeting a splendid success. Make your plans now to attend, for it will surely prove a most pleasant and profitable experience for all who can be present.

Every eligiblie non-union fireman and hostler should join our ranks, not only for the sake of enjoying better wages and working conditions, but that he may have his family provided for in case of his death or permanent injury.

An imposter representing himself to be W. W. O'Hare, President of Lodge 799, has been traveling through the Northwest, more recently along the line of the Oregon Short Line. He is described as being tall, slender built, and having dark complexion and brown eyes. He has a trav

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