Government Board-should produce as other. The two subjects were not enearly in the Session of Parliament as tirely disconnected. It was obvious practicable a succinct abstract statement that what was given by the Chancellor of those accounts. That Bill had in it of the Exchequer in remissions of taxawhat he deemed a very useful clause-tion did not, of necessity, diminish the namely, one providing for an official audit of all the public accounts of local authorities. That proposal met with a most strenuous opposition from the boroughs, and when the Bill came from Committee as amended, that clause was struck out. The Bill reached the stage of the Report; but it excited dissatisfaction among those who administered the affairs of local authorities, and it failed to pass. At the end of that Bill there was a tabular statement, of no great length, setting out the form in which the accounts of local authorities could be rendered in a way which those who ran might read and understand. In 1875 the subject of Local Finance was felt to be of such moment that the then Chancellor of the Exchequer made a statement to the House upon it early in the Session in introducing the Public Works | Loans Bill. The right hon. Gentleman (Sir Stafford Northcote) then said that the attention of Parliament itself and that of the various local bodies who administered Local Finance ought to be drawn to that subject, and, above all, to the contraction of debts. He quoted from an able pamphlet written by the then hon. Member for Liverpool (Mr. Rathbone), who said "That while the attention of the Nation is annually concentrated on the total amount, and on the items of Imperial Taxation, the particulars of Local Finance are known only to a few statisticians. The vast amounts expended and the extent of the loans contracted by these local bodies could not otherwise have escaped notice." He also remarked that the Government wished to provide some system by which the attention of the Government might be directed to the progress of local income, expenditure, and indebtedness, at a reasonable time. Now, it was on the reasonable time that he desired to ininsist; and the reasonable time, he ventured to submit, was as near as might be to the time when the Statement as to Imperial Finance was laid before the country, so that a comparison might be made between those two kinds of Finance, and that, while they might be congratulating themselves on reductions in the one, they might not overlook the enormous progressive increase in the need of expenditure or make the expenditure less. What he meant was thisit might be thought right at some not very distant day to reduce the grant from the Imperial Exchequer for, say, Education; and it was obvious that the loss caused by any withdrawal would have to be made by a demand on the public pocket in the form of a rate. In the year 1876, the right hon. Gentleman the Member for North Hants (Mr. Sclater-Booth), who was then President of the Local Government Board, made a statement on the subject in Committee of Supply; but it was then too late to serve the desired purpose. The following year, much earlier in the Session, the right hon. Gentleman made another statement on a Resolution as to Public Works, which immediately excited the attention of some of the leading Members of the House, and in particular of the right hon. Gentleman the junior Member for Birmingham (Mr. Chamberlain), who made use of a very remarkable term, and, speaking out of the fulness of his heart, characterized the local authorities, and justified their existence, as "machines for spending money," though he qualified that function by limiting it to spending "wisely." It was as the mouthpiece of a great spending authority that that right hon. Gentleman came to the Government for loans at a low rate of interest, and as the representative of a town that had already borrowed £5,000,000, and wished to increase its loan. For himself, he wished to cast no doubt on the probably remunerative nature of that loan; but it was proverbially true that money come by lightly would also go lightly. The question of local debt was one of such magnitude that an early annual statement ought to be made on the subject, to mark and call attention to its importance. In 1878 there was another early and comprehensive statement made by the then President of the Local Government Board; but that good practice was not continued in the following year, and it totally disappeared, in a satisfactory form, in 1880. That was an exceptional year, on account of the General Election; but hon. Members interested in the subject were then re- | term of 60 years. The effect of refusminded by the President of the Local ing or withholding such a statement as Government Board that they would be he asked for would be to check all reable to get what they wanted from the forms in the right direction, to leave Local Taxation Returns. Those Re- reformers with a sense of having blindly turns, however, did not supply the ne- to pay more every year than they did the cessary particulars, or, at any rate, did year before, and to excite in their minds not supply them in a convenient form. a grumbling spirit, without the informaThey were defective, and, in some tion essential to an intelligent compre particulars, inaccurate and misleading. hension of the points towards which reThey were so voluminous as to confuse forms should be directed. An idea was and baffle all but experts, and even an still widely prevalent that if you could expert would have to search through get an object carried out by means of 200 pages in order to arrive at facts the rates, you would get it done for which might easily have been stated in nothing; that everybody benefited, and four folios. He asked the House to that nobody lost. The prevalence of consider some of the items of this ex- this idea had a most demoralizing effect. penditure. Comparing the accounts of He awaited with much interest the rethe year 1874, as presented in a tabu- marks which the right hon. Gentlelated Return for which he had himself man would make on this subject, and moved, with those of 1879, which were hoped he would not say that the matter the latest he had the material for com- must be postponed until the great quesputing, he found that during that period tion of local government had been the expenditure in connection with edu- settled. In his belief, the accounts cation had increased from £1,200,000 could be worked out and presented to to £3,354,000; the expense of police, Parliament without waiting for the in spite of a Government subvention, had settlement of that very important quesrisen from £2,630,000 to £3,035,000, tion. The hon. Gentleman concluded and was still increasing. As to the by moving the Resolution of which he loans themselves-and it was there, had given Notice. after all, that the danger really laythey would some day or other have to be met by rates, and were therefore a specially important branch of the question. The total of the loans had risen between June, 1874, and Lady Day, 1879, from £84,000,000 to £128,500,000. The whole National Debt was something under £720,000,000, and would have to be paid off not more imperatively and necessarily than these local loans. Again, the duration of local loans, the periods for which money was borrowed, had to be considered by the House. One great municipal body had borrowed £1,000,000 in perpetuity, as though the prosperity of the town it represented-in which, by the way, murmurs of reciprocity had lately been heard-would last for ever. Long terms, such as 50, 60, or 100 years, were not uncommon; and he had known an important Metropolitan authority borrow money for 60 years in order to effect improvements that could not by any possibility last for half that length of time. He might mention, by way of illustration, that he had in his mind a case in which a number of boilers that had already been repaired had been purchased by money borrowed for the Mr. Pell SIR MASSEY LOPES said, he sincerely sympathized with, and cordially supported, the Motion of his hon. Friend the Member for South Leicestershire. He had on former occasions called the attention of the House and the country to this important subject, and had endeavoured to persuade the House that it was absolutely necessary that an annual Local Budget should be presented to Parliament, and that they should have an annual abstract of Receipts and Expenditure for all money levied from the ratepayers for the different purposes of the different local authorities. His hon. Friend in 1872 had aided and assisted in that object, and he ventured to say that if the proposal and policy were good, then the arguments in favour of it now were much stronger. He ventured on that occasion to draw a distinction between Imperial and Local Taxation, and he said that whilst every expenditure with reference to Imperial Taxation was scanned within that House with the greatest caution, and with great scrupulousness, yet in the question of Local Taxation they were indifferent and apathetic to the whole subject. The accounts of the one were clear and ex plicit; but the accounts of Local Taxa- | it on reference to their local indebtedtion, on the contrary, were obscure and ness? They were actually increasing complicated, and almost unintelligible; their local indebtedness at the rate of whereas every item of our Imperial £10,000,000 per annum, and at this Taxation was under Parliamentary ad- present moment he thought it would be ministration, and under the supervision found that our local indebtedness was of the Government, with reference to £150,000,000, and that was considerLocal Taxation we were comparatively ably more than the rateable value of indifferent he might say supremely the property of the United Kingdom at apathetic-in respect of the mode and this present moment. They had been means by which these vast sums ex- endeavouring of late years very much tracted from the ratepayers were ex- to decrease the National Debt; yet, at pended. He had strongly urged that as the same time, they had been creating the Chancellor of the Exchequer was another kind of National Debt, far more responsible for Imperial Taxation, the rapidly, and at a much greater rate, President of the Local Government than they were diminishing the old one. Board should be made equally respon- They had been creating a new debt in sible for Local Taxation Expenditure. their local indebtedness. That debt His hon. Friend had told the House was really amounting, at this moment, of the Bill he had introduced in the year to almost the National Debt of many 1873, and which, had it passed, would important States. He was one of those have been a boon to the country. He who thought that the mode and the suggested that there should be an means by which they had allowed money Annual Budget of Local Taxation, and to be borrowed by their local authorities that that Budget should be made up at from the Public Works Loan Commisone period of the year. His hon. Friend sioners was radically wrong. We were had then been fortunate in one respect; thus giving undue facilities for borrowhe then got the assistance of a Member ing money. He thought it had been of the Government, the right hon. Mem- an inducement to those local authorities ber for Halifax (Mr. Stansfeld); he to spend more money, and to spend that carried that Bill through Committee, money more extravagantly than they but, like other private Members' Bills, otherwise would. He also thought that it did not advance any further. His the mode and means which they had right hon. Friend the Leader of the given them of spreading the repayment Opposition, in 1875, announced in the over such a very lengthened period was House that he advocated the principle also a temptation to borrow money. It and proposal in his hon. Friend's Bill, was hardly right in them that they and he then initiated and established a should be drawing bills upon posterity Local Taxation Budget; and for the for almost every conceivable object, years 1876-7-8 they had an Annual throwing undue responsibilities upon Budget which was most interesting to them, and expecting posterity by-andthat House and to the country. For bye to pay them. It was not improthe next two years it was omitted. But, bable that posterity might have many as he had said before, if it was needful wants and requirements of their own; and necessary 10 years ago to have an just as much as we had in the present Annual Statement of Local Taxation, it generation; and he did not think that was far more important that they should they would be particularly well pleased have it now, for the rate of local ex- to find that we had mortgaged their sependiture and local indebtedness was curities so heavily and so severely as alarmingly on the increase. It would we had already done. We had no scarcely be credited that 10 years ago right to lighten our burdens and relocal burdens were less than now. Not- sponsibilities by transferring so largo a withstanding that the late Government proportion of them to posterity. The had given upwards of £2,000,000 in re- system of Government Loans, except missions, the burdens had increased by under very exceptional circumstances, the imposition of new taxes-education, was bad. Money was particularly plenhighway, and sanitary rates--so that tiful and cheap at the present time, and positively all the boons granted by the if the security was good there was no Late Government had been absorbed by difficulty in any local authority going new taxation for new objects. How was into the open market and getting as much money as they required. In 1875 MR. RATHBONE said, he could not the late Government passed a Local help thinking that it was not necessary Loans Act, and he would like to know to argue the Motion. They were all why that had been so little utilized? agreed that the whole subject of Local Was it that the Public Works' Loan Expenditure should annually be brought Commissioners were advancing their before the attention of Parliament; and money on cheaper terms than it could the only question was how that could be got in the open market, or were less be best accomplished. His work in particular as to securities? No doubt this matter had been the humble one a certain amount of debt must be con- of collecting information; and in the tracted by local authorities to carry out course of his inquiries it appeared to the various social and sanitary improve- him that the only chance of our local ments which the Legislature was con- government being efficient, and our Local tinually imposing exceptionally on the Taxation being moderate, was to have owners and occupiers of real property; the whole subject placed on such a footing but if local authorities went into the that the ratepayers should know what open market they would be more care- they were spending, and for what purpose ful than when, as at present, they could the money was spent. To do that they run up large accounts with the Commis- must begin at the beginning, and not at sioners. It was not to be expected that the end-they must begin in the localilocal authorities should find money for ties themselves. He thought they ought the improvements that were forced upon to have in every locality, in place of the them out of current revenue; but still present chaotic system, one local and Government ought to be much more spending authority. When that was accautious in sanctioning these debts. complished they could then know for Greater care and more stringent regula- what they were being taxed and what tions should be exercised, and their re- they were paying. How was it possible payment should not be spread over so to know that at present? In the dislengthened a period. In many instances trict in which he lived, within a radius there was an entire absence of any effi- of a few miles, there were 35 taxing cient and independent system of audit and spending authorities. He defied any with reference to the application of man in that area to say where one must these vast sums. All the accounts of look for a check upon abuse or misthe local authorities should be subjected management. His proposal was not to the same audit as that of Poor Law only desirable, but it was practicable. authorities and school boards, and be In speaking a few years ago with the regularly published every year. He se- present Lord Reay, then a Member of conded the Motion, as he was perfectly the Dutch Government, that gentleman satisfied, if attention was called to our said that Holland was perfectly satisfied Local Taxation and our local indebted- with its local government. He (Mr. ness by an Annual Budget Statement Rathbone) then said that that was the from a responsible Member of the Go- only country which he ever knew was vernment, we should better realize our satisfied with its local government, and responsibilities, and be a deal more he wished Lord Reay would undertake careful and cautious in incurring them. to get a statement of how they managed there to content the people with the local government. That statement had been obtained; and really the whole success lay in the principle which he had mentioned. The Dutch, he believed, originally derived their system of local government from this country; but, instead of letting it grow up, they took care to put it upon a regular system, and their system was the having one primary local government doing all the work for the district. The local authority brought in a Local Budget on the 30th September every year. The Budget lay on the Table until the following 1st Amendment proposed, To leave out from the word "That" to the end of the Question, in order to add the words "the annual consideration of the measures imposing taxation should be accompanied by a Ministerial Statement of Local Taxation and Question proposed, "That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the Question." Sir Massey Lopes January. It was sent up to what we should call our County Boards, and also to the Central Government; and if either of those bodies found that anything had been done which trenched upon their management, or was contrary to the powers and the duties of the local board, they had the right to object; but if no objection was made, the Budget became law on the 18th of January every year. It would be apparent to the House that if we had such a system in this country there would be no difficulty in the way of the President of the Local Government Board annually laying before the country a statement of Local Administration, Taxation, and Finance. It would be also evident that this Budget coming once a year before the locality in general debate, which brought everything that was interesting to any portion of the ratepayers before them, would meet with general attention and criticism. The consequence in Holland was that enormous powers had been given to the local authority. The primary local authority in Holland could levy any tax which was not levied by the Central Government; but yet those large powers were kept in check, and the local authorities there were economical and efficient. would lay down the principle that each generation should pay the cost of its own fancies, instead of throwing its debts over 50, 60, or 100 years. He would also say a word as to the unfair incidence of burdens according as property was freehold or leasehold. At present, if there was a number of leasehold houses on one side of a street, and a number of freehold on the other, the one paid 3 per cent Probate Duty, and the other nothing, or next to nothing. It was a perfect scandal, and could be supported by neither rhyme nor reason. There should be no such distinction. Property should be divided into rateable and non-rateable, and the Probate Duty should be levied at different rates accordingly. Of course, the manner in which it was dealt with in the present Bill could only be regarded as fragmentary, and he hoped at a future time the subject would be grasped in a more general manner. MR. GLADSTONE: Sir, I think there is great force in the statement made by the hon. Gentleman from the other side of the House with respect to the question of Probate Duty. There is no doubt whatever that that is a subject which must be taken into very serious consideraMR. T. COLLINS thought there tion by Parliament. This much I said on a could be no doubt that the Resolution, recent occasion, and I also pointed out if acted upon, would have a very mate- that until the House had determined rial effect in reducing the powers of what it would endeavour to give to the local bodies in reference to borrowing Statute Law and other matters, it was money. It was a great mistake that the not possible to legislate upon the subject House did not lay down in broad prin- of both duties. I pass from that, beciples that each generation for local pur-cause I think it is understood this debate poses should pay its own debts, and that should have for its main object to deal no borrowing powers should be given to with the subject raised by the hon. Memlocal authorities extending over a period ber for South Leicestershire (Mr. Pell). of more than 30 years. Anyone who had With the spirit and aim of his speech experience of local authorities knew that I entirely sympathize, as I do with the they preferred to borrow at 4 per cent speeches made since the hon. Gentleman if they could throw the loan over 50 sat down. I am very glad we are not years, rather than borrow at 3 per placed in conflict with the terms of the cent if the loan had to be paid off in Resolution; because, although some little 30 years. The question always was- objection might be taken on the score of "Over how many years can we throw ambiguity, I should be sorry to seem to this debt, and how little can we pay be in opposition to him. This question is year by year?" Unfortunately, the so large and complex that it is difficult to interests of owners and occupiers were give a full view of it except in lengthened at variance in that respect. The latter debate; and, therefore, I must beg the were only anxious to borrow as much indulgence of the House if I do not money as possible, and enter upon as at present take a full view of it. I have large an outlay as they could, because already expressed my thorough symit brought them immediate benefit.pathy with the speech made by the hon. Owners naturally took a different view. Member. The hon. Member has spoken He hoped, therefore, that Parliament most properly of the presentation of ac |