to legalize the transaction. But, however that might be, the noble Earl opposite could not regard the Treaty which had just been signed as a legal document, if Tunis was a part of the Ottoman Empire. By the Treaty of Paris in 1856, by the Treaty of London in 1871, and by the recent Treaty of Berlin, the integrity of the Ottoman Empire was guaranteed. He could not leave this part of the subject without alluding to what must be regarded as a great violation of International rights. The territory of a neighbouring and friendly Sovereign was invaded against repeated protests, without any declaration of war, military positions were taken up in various parts of the country, his flag was hauled down from a Tunisian fort and the French flag hoisted, troops advanced to the walls of the city, the general with an armed escort entered the palace, and, under military compulsion, a Treaty was signed. Whether Tunis owed allegiance to the Sultan or whether the Bey was independent, there had surely been a great violation of International rights. And now he came to this-In what way did it affect this country? It was impossible to look at the geographical position of Tunis without seeing that it was a matter of great importance. It could not for a moment be supposed that this country could regard with indifference a territory like Tunis falling into the hands of a great Power commanding, as it might do, the channel to the East along which the greater portion of the traffic of this country passed. There was a narrow channel of not more than 80 miles between the Italian and Tunisian shores. At no great distance from Tunis lay the harbour of Bizerta, with sufficient water -from five to seven fathoms-to float the largest iron-clad in any Navy with sufficient space, being about eight miles in length and in width about five miles, to manœuvre a fleet, and which, at a comparatively small outlay at the entrance, might be made one of the finest harbours in the Mediterranean. In case of war, how greatly would be increased the difficulty of our communications with the East, how greatly would it add to the difficulty of maintaining our position in the Mediterranean if a large French Fleet were at Bizerta, within 200 miles of Malta. There was another point of which he must briefly remind their Lord ships, and it was one of some importance. Malta was mainly dependent upon Tunis for provisions, both meat and corn. In the event of war, if Tunis were in the possession of France, it would be difficult to know whence these supplies could be procured. And he could not omit to mention that the future commercial interests of this country might be greatly imperilled if the Regency of Tunis were under a French Protectorate. At present, Commercial Treaties with Tunis were favourable. If France was for the future to have the control of Treaties such as that of 1875, which expired in 1882, very different conditions might be imposed which might seriously affect the exports of our manufactures. He did not believe that this country would regard with jealousy any just and fair development of French interests in the Mediterranean; but the annexation of territory, or the establishing a Protectorate over a country without the consent of other Powers who had great interests at stake, could not do otherwise than lead to an estrangement which might be productive of grave and serious consequences. He must say, in conclusion, that in the Papers and Correspondence now before their Lordships, he could see no distinct intimation as to what would be the future policy of Her Majesty's Government. He trusted it would no longer be withheld, and he sincerely hoped it would be based upon the upholding of Treaties and the respecting of International rights that unjust aggressions would not be tolerated, and that the honour and good faith of this country would be maintained. LORD STANLEY OF ALDERLEY said, that perhaps the less was said in Parliament about the recent proceedings in Tunis the more chance there would be of the French adhering to the professions of their Government and of their desisting from extreme exactions. It was the less necessary to speak of the disregard of the Law of Nations, since within the last few days a pamphlet had appeared, written by a Frenchman, appealing to Frenchmen to do right, and laying the blame on those who had tempted France to do wrong. He trusted that the noble Earl the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs would not look upon the Treaty recently published as in any way obligatory or final. EARL GRANVILLE: My Lords, your | two great and friendly Governments. Lordships do not seem generally inclined Therefore, until I see a greater indicato join in this discussion, which has been tion of the wish of the House generally raised by the noble Earl opposite (Earl to have a really important discussion on De La Warr) on a very important subject, this subject I am sure the noble Earl in which, as we all know, he takes a will not think it a want of respect to very great interest. Many years ago, I him individually if I do not go fully into asked a very experienced Foreign Secre- the case. tary whether he did not feel it a diffi- THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY: culty in his position that it frequently The noble Earl who introduced this subhappened that he could not state publicly ject (Earl De La Warr) stated his case the best reasons for things that he did with great moderation, and evidently or things that he did not do. His spoke under a sense of responsibility in answer was, that that was a very great touching upon this question. But aldifficulty; but that there was compensa- though I quite understand the point of tion in the greatly superior knowledge view from which he approaches the which he had to the opposition which subject, and that much is to be said in attacked him. But I am bound to say, favour of some of the considerations adwith regard to the noble Earl opposite, vanced by him, I am compelled to express that no one can accuse him of a want of an opinion strictly in harmony with that information on this subject. I believe of the noble Earl who has just sat down the noble Earl will not contradict me (Earl Granville)-namely, that no great when I state that I believe he has been public benefit will be derived from exin almost daily correspondence with a panding or continuing this discussion. gentleman of great energy, great ability, Any person taking part in this discussion and high character, the counsel of Mr. must feel that he is speaking under the Levy in the Enfida case, and who, I am weight of great responsibility, because informed, is in correspondence with three all that is said here is addressed not of the London papers, writes the Reuter only to your Lordships and to the Engtelegrams, and is more or less ably re- lish public, but to others, and it is a presented in both Houses of Parliament. matter of notoriety that this is a quesThe noble Earl has also had the advan- tion upon which the French Governtage of all the official documents which ment and the French people feel very have passed between us and France on strongly. I do not think that my noble the subject of Tunis-documents which, Friend behind me gave quite sufficient as far as I am aware, notwithstanding weight to the grounds which undoubtthe doubt which he has thrown upon edly exist, and which have existed for them, entirely carry out all that at dif- some time, for causing the French Governferent times, and generally in answer to ment to look upon Tunis with great inhimself, I have stated to your Lordships. terest and to desire to extend their inIf there were any feeling shown on fluence in that country. It is not merely either side of the House to raise an that it is a neighbouring country, but it important discussion on this question, is a neighbouring country inhabited by and, still more, if there were any inten- tribes of a very warlike and fanatical tion of bringing an attack or moving a character, who are of the same race Vote of Censure on Her Majesty's Go- and of the same religion as those who vernment for what they have done, I are the subjects of the French Governshould be only too happy to enter into ment in the neighbouring Colony of the fullest discussion of this matter. Algiers. I think that no one imparBut I must say that I very much agree tially considering such a state of things with my noble Friend who has just sat will wonder at or blame the French down (Lord Stanley of Alderley), and I Government for desiring that their doubt exceedingly whether any great influence should be extended and public object would be attained by Her strengthened in Tunis. Supposing an Majesty's Government entering into analogous case to arise in reference to weekly or bi-weekly driblets of dis-one of our own Colonies, and that a race cussion with one particular Peer on a of men of a warlike and fanatical tenmatter of great importance involving dency of the same religion and race as questions of very great delicacy between those of our own subjects lived outside of our Frontier, we should be very jealous we have any interest there that should of any other influence beside our own cause us to be disturbed or disquieted being acquired over that population. by what has passed. If it were posThe French Government, however, have sible to suppose that the action which the gone a good deal further than insuring French Government have taken had any or extending their influence in Tunis; further or more distant object, I do not but, and especially after what has fallen at all forget that there are in other parts from the noble Earl opposite (Earl of the Mediterranean British interests Granville), I am not here to express any of the very gravest character, and any opinion upon what they have done. It Government who thinks that those inteis always a very doubtful point whether, rests are in any way compromised by the in a case which does not invite the action action of the French Government would of this country to take any more decided be justified in taking up an attitude of steps, remonstrance is in itself a prudent great vigilance. But the French Goproceeding; and in this case I doubt vernment have given the noble Earl whether there is any ground in the inte- opposite assurances which have been rest of this country alone for even any laid upon the Table of the House, and intervention or remonstrant action; but which the noble Earl has very wisely whether there is ground for any such treated as amounting to International action or not, we do not yet know engagements. Those assurances, which precisely what the proceedings or the we have no ground for believing to be intentions of Her Majesty's Govern- other than sincere and, indeed, it would ment on this subject have been and are. be unseemly for us to doubt their sinThey have not up to this time remon- cerity-we are justified in accepting as strated in any formal manner against being sufficient to remove any disquietthe action of the French Government. ing impressions; and, therefore, no case It is, however, perfectly in their discre- has arisen to make it incumbent on tion to do so. The French Government any independent Member of your Lordhave undoubtedly taken steps which it ships' House to call attention to the is open to us to regard-if we think subject. fit to do so on grounds of policy or of antecedent history-as trenching upon the comity of one friendly nation towards another. But Her Majesty's Government have not thought fit to do so, and I am bound to say that I for one shall not, as far as my knowledge at present goes, challenge that decision. I shall not prolong this discussion. I believe that the French Government and the French nation are actuated by a very friendly sentiment towards this country, and I believe that that friendly connection between us is of the highest importance to this country and to the interest of the world. As far as Tunis is concerned, I see no interest which this country possesses which would justify or should induce us to strain or to place any undue weight upon the friendly relations that exist between the two countries. I do IRISH JURY LAWS. MOTION FOR A SELECT COMMITTEE. The order made on Monday last for the appointment of a Select Committee discharged. Moved, "That a Select Committee be appointed to inquire into the operation of the Irish Jury Laws."-(The Marquess of Lansdowne.) Motion agreed to. And, on May 30, the Lords following were named of the Committee: Ld. President. L. Inchiquin. L. Ardilaun. not deny that the French Treaty with The Committee to appoint thoir own Chairman. the Bey, to which both the noble Lords have alluded, is one which Her Majesty's Government will find it necessary to bear in mind, and which will increase their vigilance for British interests. in certain quarters. As far as Tunis is concerned, however, I do not hold that HOUSE OF COMMONS, Friday, 27th May, 1881. MINUTES.1-SUPPLY-considered in Committee -ARMY ESTIMATES. PRIVATE BILL (by Order)-Considered as amended -North British Railway (New Tay Viaduct). PUBLIC BILLS-Ordered-First Reading-Lord Lieutenants of Counties (Ireland) [180]. Committee-Local Government Provisional Orders (Acton, &c)* [159], discharged; Land Law (Ireland) [135]-[Second Night-R.P. Report Land Drainage Provisional Orders* [153]; Local Government (Ireland) Provisional Orders (Bandon, &c.) * [163]; Local Government Provisional Orders (Ilalifax, &c.) [159]. Considered as amended - Customs and Inland Revenue [136]. Third Reading Water Provisional Orders [146]; Bankruptcy and Cessio (Scotland) [174]; Newspapers [154], and passed. * TREATY OF BERLIN-BULGARIA. MR. LABOUCHERE asked the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, Whether any action has been taken on the part of Her Majesty's Government to call the attention of Prince Alexander of Bulgaria, who became the constitutional Prince of that Country, in accordance with the stipulations of the Treaty of Berlin, to the sacred character of the oath by which he bound himself to maintain the constitution of Bulgaria, and to the possibly serious consequences of his violation of that oath; and, whether Her Majesty's Government have received any confirmation from Her Majesty's representative in Bulgaria of the assertion of Prince Alexander, in his manifesto which accompanied his revolutionary attack upon the Representative Bulgarian Assembly, that the Country was in a state of such disorder that a coup d'état was necessary? SIRGEORGE CAMPBELL said, that, before the hon. Baronet answered that Question, he wished to ask, whether it was true that since the declaration of the Prince of Bulgaria, he had received a new Russian Minister, with whom he proposed to proceed into the interior? SIR CHARLES W. DILKE: Sir, no such action has been taken by Her Majesty's Government, and it is understood that the intention of the Prince of Bulgaria is to offer his abdication to the Great National Assembly, stating at the same time the conditions on which he would consent to remain, and which he considers indispensable to enable him to carry on the Government. Her Majesty's Government are in communication with Her Majesty's Agent at Sofia on the subject of presenting Papers to Parlia ment, which will explain the reasons which have induced the Prince of Bulgaria to take this step. Perhaps the hon. Gentleman the Member for Kirkcaldy (Sir George Campbell) will give Notice of his Question. ARMY SICK LEAVE-CAPTAIN BUTLER. MR. M'COAN asked the Secretary of State for War, Whether it is a fact that Captain Butler, 9th Regiment, has been granted eighteen months' sick leave from India, his illness having been contracted in and by the Service while surveying on the Perso-Turkoman Frontier, as shown by proceedings of a medical board dated 4th July 1879, Murree, India; whether it is a fact that, at the conclusion of his eighteen months' sick leave, he reported himself fit for duty, and a medical board passed him as such, but that while waiting for his orders a severe recurrence of his illness seized him, upon which he sought the independent medical advice of Dr. RussellReynolds, and that Captain Butler forwarded his doctor's certificate corroborating the above illness, and stating that it was quite unsafe for this officer to proceed at this season to India, but that in a few months he would be quite recovered; and, if so, on what grounds he is now refused sick leave, the last board held on him having sat before his relapse above mentioned; whether there is any provision in the Queen's Regulations, or elsewhere, drawing a hard and fast line as to the limit of sick leave to be granted to officers who have lost their health in and by the Service; whether he will lay upon the Table of the House a Return of the names of such officers as have received sick leave within the last five years, showing the total terms of such leave granted to each; and, whether the sickness for which they have been granted has been contracted in and by the Service, or otherwise? MR. CHILDERS: Sir, it is the case that Captain Butler was granted 12 months' sick leave from India, which leave was further extended for six months; but he was informed that if, at the expiration of that period, he was still unfit for service, he would be called upon to resign. However, he reported himself fit, and was so found by a medical board, and was accordingly ordered to embark for India. On the day before he should have embarked he sent in a certificate from a civil doctor stating that he was unfit to return to India, and he asked for four months' more leave. "Bill to regulate the receipt, custody, and issue of the public moneys, and to provide for the audit of the public accounts," in which Address the Council represented that the control of the Legislature over the public purse has been merely nominal, and not real, as the present constitution of the Colony contemplates. They further stated that during the past 10 years some £160,000 has, in fact, been expended over and above the sums submitted to vote in the annual Estimates. The Governor pointed out, in reply, that this irregularity has been, to a great extent, due to the practice of framing the Estimates on an insufficient scale, leaving it to the Governor to issue on his own authority Supplementary Upon this, he was called upon to retire. Warrants, which had to be legalized by There is another reason, not medical, subsequent legislation; and he quoted that makes Captain Butler unwilling to the Report of a Select Committee on return to India-that is, as he himself over-expenditure for 1878, which stated officially states, a belief that he will be "that due regard to economy was, as a arrested for debt as soon as he arrives whole, observed by this Government." in Bombay. There is no provision in The Secretary of State is now considerthe Queen's Regulations as to the limit ing this matter, and proposes to issue of sick leave, each case being considered such instructions as may remove, as far as on its merits. I do not propose to lay practicable, the irregularity of spending on the Table such a Return as the hon. money without the previously obtained Gentleman suggests. I do not believe authority of the Legislature. Her Mathat it is the wish of the House to in-jesty's Government are confident that terfere in questions of this kind, which are essentially for the Commander-inChief, under the responsibility of and subject to an appeal to the Secretary of State. UNCONSTITUTIONAL EXPENDITURE WESTERN AUSTRALIA. SIR WALTER B. BARTTELOT asked the Under Secretary of State for the Colonies, Whether remonstrances have been lately received at the Colonial Office from Western Australia, as to the way in which expenditure has been incurred in that Colony, without previous legislative sanction; and, whether the subject is under the consideration of the Secretary of State? MR. GRANT DUFF: Sir, it might| be enough to say that the hon. and gallant Baronet's information is quite correct; but as he has asked me, for good reasons, to give a somewhat full answer to his Question, I must state a few particulars. The Legislative Council of Western Australia, in September of last year, presented an Address to the Governor in connection with a they will have the full co-operation of the Governor in securing the legitimate control of the Legislature over the Public Expenditure. PROTECTION OF PERSON AND PROPERTY (IRELAND) ACT, 1881—POLITICAL PRISONERS (MR. HODNETT) MR. T. P. O'CONNOR (for Mr. HEALY) asked Mr. Attorney General for Ireland, Whether it is true that on yesterday, Ascension Thursday, being a Catholic holiday, Mr. Hodnett, a political prisoner in Limerick Gaol, was deprived of the privilege of associating with other prisoners as a punishment for hurrying from his cell into chapel, a distance of 20 yards? THE ATTORNEY GENERAL FOR IRELAND (Mr. LAW): Sir, on receiving private Notice of this Question yesterday, I at once made inquiry of the prison authorities by telegraph; but I have not yet received an answer. MR. T. P. O'CONNOR: Has the right hon. and learned Gentleman heard today? THE ATTORNEY GENERAL FOR IRELAND (Mr. Law): No, Sir. |