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tleman concluded by moving the adjourn- | statement he made. With regard to ment of the House.

what had been said as to the cruel sufTHE O'DONOGHUE seconded the fering of tenants of the Crown, he would Motion.

only venture to say one thing, and he Motion made, and Question proposed,

thought it absolutely necessary to say " That this House do now adjourn.”

it, and that was as to those who ma(Mr. James Howard.)

naged the Crown estates. He thought

the House would appreciate the signi. MR. GLADSTONE, in reply, said, he ficance of his statement, when he ingathered from the speech of his hon. formed them that the agricultural inteFriend (Mr. J. Howard), that he attri- rest of the Crown property was considerbuted to him the responsibility for the ably over £100,000 a year, and at that statement he had made and the inter moment there were but three farms in ruptions it had caused. He could only hand. say that he was very sorry if, in any of LORD ELCHO said, he would not have the particulars of his answer to his hon. interfered in the discussion; but the accuFriend, he had failed to satisfy his hon. sation of murder against Mr. Gore obFriend. It was not intended, and he liged him to say one word in his defence. was still more sorry that he had obliged MR. JAMES HOWARD: I rise to the hon. Member to make the Motion. Order. Mr. Speaker [Cries of His hon. Friend had said that he was Order, order!”] not one of those who were in the habit MR. SPEAKER ruled that the noble of wasting the time of the House, and Lord was in possession of the House. that he (Mr. Gladstone) believed to be LORD ELCHO, resuming, said, he entirely true; but if that were to imply certainly gathered that such a charge that those hon. Gentlemen who had not was made. Now, whoever had had the been in the habit of wasting time were to pleasure of knowing Mr. Gore knew that choose the present juncture to begin the there was not a more able servant, or habit of taking up the time of the House, one more just. The fact stated by the the position of the House in regard to Prime Minister showed that the Crown Business, which was already serious, Estates were managed well by the offiwould become woeful indeed. As to the cers of that Department. With regard immediate subject of the Motion for Ad- to Mr. Gore's management, the figures journment, he might say that he had were these. The estate contained 3,097 not measured the estate or inspected the acres ; £119,000 were paid for it, and books; and his hon. Friend had had £21,000 were expended by the Crown in the advantage, whatever it might be, of improving it. In 1878 there was a reputting forward a number of statements duction of 11 per cent; 1879, 17 per cent; which he had, no doubt, given in per- 1880, of 22 per cent; and in 1881, 22 per fect good faith, but in regard to the cor- cent reduction had been promised. Furrection of which, or the filling up of ther, it must be borne in mind that these which, or the further illustration of estates were administered, not for the which, no person in the House at that benefit of the Department, but for that moment, he would venture to say, was of the nation, and that the Agents were in a position to take any action. In these bound to do their duty under an Act of circumstances, he trusted that the House Parliament. The statute in question, would reserve its judgment, and that the Land Revenue Act, provided that no his hon. Friend would see the propriety land should be let except upon valuaof withdrawing his Motion. He ven- tion, and that valuation must be made tured to think that if his hon. Friend by a competent surveyor, who was bound would allow the matter to go forward in to swear that the land was let at a reathe manner suggested-namely, by ob- sonable rent. Upon these terms this taining a statement from the proper offi- land was let, like all the rest of the cer responsible, that would be a prefer- Crown Lands. He protested against a able mode of dealing with the subject. charge being made in this manner The error of stating that the rent was against a Crown Agent, in an unex. 258. an acre, instead of 288., was not an pected way sprung upon the House error of the proper officer, but an error without Notice on the Paper. committed by those who made the sum- Mr. O'DONNELL said, he fully admary for him (Mr. Gladstone) in the mitted the general inconvenience of such

Mr. James Howard

impromptu debates; but would remind it is the intention of the Government to the House that in the state of Public reduce the period that the command of Business now-a-days a Motion for Ad- a regiment may be held from five to journment was sometimes the only four years, or after four years' service as means which the House possessed of a major to only two years; whether he controlling the actions of officials. He is aware that the late lamentable disascould not say he was very much struck ters in the Transvaal are alleged to have with the eulogium which the noble Lord been chiefly attributable to the manner the Member for Haddingtonshire Lord in which young and inexperienced Staff Elcho) had pronounced upon the Agent, Officers took the command of the troops because whenever a public officer was out of the hands of the responsible regispoken of in that House in any terms mental officers, and hurried the men on except those of the most extreme praise, at critical moments; and, whether it is then every Member who had the honour proposed to apply the new rule as to and advantage of his acquaintanceship regimental commands to officers on their felt bound to testify that those who had first and second appointment on the that honour and advantage must admit Staff of the Horse Guards and the Army that that particular public servant was generally? as near a paragon as anyone could be. MR.CHILDERS: Sir, I do not see the He was sure, from what he knew of the connection between the second part of hon. Member opposite (Mr. J. Howard), | my hon. Friend's Question and the first that he had not introduced the subject and third. A great many reasons, some except under the spur of necessity. not improbable, and some palpably

MR.JAMES HOWARD, in withdraw- absurd, have been given for our recent ing the Motion, begged the House to un-reverses in South Africa ; but the only derstand that he did not for a momenten- instance in which blame has been attri. dorse the dying statement of the deceased buted in certain quarters to the intertenant of the Crown ; and, therefore, the ference of a Staff officer was in the innoble Lord (Lord Elcho) had put words stance of a colonel of about 27 years' in his mouth which he had not uttered service. I do not think that I could or entertained. He had simply stated with advantage explain in detail what a fact elicited at the Coroner's inquest. is proposed and will appear in the WarHe did not know the gentleman in ques- rant as to the length of a lieutenanttion (Mr. Gore); but he would embrace colonel's service; but, speaking generally, the opportunity of saying that it would it will be from four to six years, and be better for the nation if our public that of a major will be seven years, as offices were not filled with aristocrats or their connections, who had to depend on more practical men to do the work for STATE OF IRELAND THE LAND which they were paid.

LEAGUE-TIE CHAPLAIN OF NAAS Lord ELCHO rose to explain, and

GAOL. was met with loud cries of " Order!” Mr. SPEAKER: If the noble Lord

LORD RANDOLPH CHURCHILL desires to make any explanation, no asked Mr. Attorney General for Ireland, doubt the House will give him indul.

Whether it is a fact that the Roman gence.

Catholic chaplain of Naas jail is presiLord ELCHO explained that he un- deut or officer or member of the local derstood the hon. Gentleman to accuse

Land League? one of those who had to do with the

Tue ATTORNEY GENERAL FOR administration of the Department, for IRELAND (Mr. Law): Yes, Sir. which Mr. Gore was responsible, of

Lord RANDOLPHI CHURCHILL: murder. [Mr. JAMES HOWARD: No, May I ask the right hon. and learned no!] That was what he understood him Gentleman if he is aware that the Roman to say.

Catholic chaplain of Naas gaol is in reMotion, by leave, withdrawn.

ceipt of a salary of £200 ?



that, being chaplain, he receives a MR. HENEAGE asked the Secretary salary ; but the amount I do not of State for War, Whether it is true that know.


THE MAGISTRACY (ENGLAND)-CON. press an opinion that that should not

continue, inasmuch as there was an TAGIOUS DISEASES ACTS.

appeal under the Acts for an unfortunate Mr. HOPWOOD asked the Secretary woman from the examining surgeon to of State for the Home Department, a justice of the peace, and here they Whether it is the fact that one or two would be the same person ? more surgeons employed in the com- SIR WILLIAM HARCOURT repulsory examination of prostitutes under newed his assurance that inquiry would the Contagious Diseases Acts have been be instituted. In any event some com. made justices of the peace, in order munications must pass before coming to that they may carry out the Acts in a any decision. twofold capacity, administering and executing the Law; whether he will state NAVY—THE TROOPSHIP “NEMESIS." by what Minister such gentlemen were VISCOUNT NEWPORT asked the Serecommended to Her Majesty for ap- cretary to the Admiralty, Whether the pointment; whether he approves of such troopship “ Nemesis," which conveyed ;

, à confusion of duties; and, whether a portion of the 7th Hussars to the the individuals in question should not Cape, was inspected and reported favourbe called upon to make their choice in ably upon by an official acting under the respect of those Acts to act either as orders of the Admiralty before she was magistrates or as surgeons only ? chartered by the Government for the

SiR WILLIAM HARCOURT: Iconveyance of troops ? have been previously asked a similar MR. TREVELYAN: Sir, the inforQuestion by my hon. and learned Friend. mation which the noble Viscount asks I If he has any grounds for thinking that gave to the House of Commons in answer the persons he refers to have been im- to a Question of the 9th of May, and I properly appointed, or that they have felt bound then to give it, accompanied misconducted themselves, and if he by an explanation of some length, bewill state such grounds, I will cause cause it concerned the reputation of the the subject to be inquired into. I have Transport Department, a Department no knowledge whatever that the ap- which has never deserved better of the pointments in question have been com-country than during the operations con. plained of.

nected with the recent disturbances in MR. HOPWOOD reminded the right South Africa. I have got a short Rehon. and learned Gentleman that he had port here which I have had prepared for written to him naming three individuals the noble Viscount, and which I will at Devonport, Windsor, and South- give him privately; but it contains ampton acting as magistrates, and he nothing which I have not stated pubasked whether they ought to perform licly in the House, except that the these double functions; and, if so, whe- Nemesis has made her return voyage in ther that state of things was compatible such a satisfactory time that there is with the Public Service ?

reason to believe that her behaviour on Sir WILLIAM HARCOURT said, the way out was mainly due to the bad he would make inquiry. He under- weather which she encountered. If tho stood from his hon. and learned Friend noble Viscount wishes, I will read the that these persons ought not to fulfil the Report now; but the House is already in duties he spoke of; but that must de-possession of the information which it pend upon the nature of the duties, as contains. to which he could not give an opinion VISCOUNT NEWPORT said, that in until he had inquired.

consequence of this answer he would, on MR. HOPWOOD: Double duty. a future day, ask whether it had come

Mr. CARBUTT asked the right hon. to the knowledge of the Admiralty that and learned Gentleman, in reference to the troopship Nemesis broke down behis answer to the Question of the hon. tween this country and the Cape on and learned Gentleman the Member for several occasions, that her boilers were Stockport, whether they were to under- in an unsafe condition, that she ran short stand that due inquiry would be made of provisions, and that the privations of into that matter; and, if it were found those on board were so great that the that the gentlemen referred to were act- troops had ultimately to be transferred ing in the double capacity, he would ex- to the Calabria to finish the voyage ?



In answer to a Question by Mr.

HEALY, MR. FRASER-MACKINTOSH asked the Postmaster General, Whether his rantee was given by any respectable in

Mr. FAWCETT said, that the guaattention has been called to the fact that habitants of the district. none of the Scottish Banks have seen their way to comply with the conditions

CYPRUS-CATTLE PLAGUE. required, in order to enable them to cash postal orders for their customers; and,

MR. ARTHUR ARNOLD asked the whether, as there are no banks available Vice President of the Council, Whether through which crossed postal orders can

it is true that an importation of cattle be cashed, local post offices have been from Cyprus by a Member of this House authorized to cash all such orders, whe- has been prohibited by the Privy Counther crossed or not; and, if not, how cil; and, if so, for what reason payment of postal orders crossed gene

MR. MUNDELLA: Sir, it is true that rally, or to a particular bank, can be ob. an application to land some goats, not tained in Scotland ?

cattle, from Cyprus has been refused by MR. FAWCETT, in reply, said, that the Privy Council

. There has been a on the 29th of April last, certain arrange- very bad outbreak of cattle plague at ments were announced with the view of Cyprus, which has destroyed large numobviating, as far as possible, the incon-bers of animals in the island, and which venience with reference to the cashing

was suppressed with great difficulty. of postal orders. He was glad to say Council of December 15, 1879, the land

Moreover, by the General Order of that these arrangements had been so much approved of by the bankers geve-ing of animals from the dominions of rally, that a great number immediately the Sultan was strictly prohibited, as a adopted them. The others were adopt- | precaution against rinderpest; and as ing them every day, and he believed Cyprus is included in the dominions of that, with a single exception, they had the Sultan, we could not admit the anibeen adopted by the Scottish banks; mals in question to quarantine. On the and, therefore, he hoped the incon- grounds, therefore, of illegality and of venience to which the hon. Member re. risk, we felt bound to refuse any relaxaferred no longer existed.

tion of the Order.



CAPTAIN PRICE asked the Secretary MR. ROUND asked the Postmaster of State for War, Whether it is the case General, If he will consider whether it that in the regular Army, and also in the is possible to allow telegraph extensions Navy, officers hold the appointment of to be made in rural districts under A.D.C. to the Queen for limited periods, guarantee on easier terms than those but that in the Militia and Yeomanry which at present prevail, and which re- these appointments are held for life; quire not only the payment of working and, if so, whether he would consider expenses and interest on outlay, but the advisability of limiting the appointalso the repayment during the period of ments in these services to a period of five the guarantee of the capital sum ex- years ? pended ?

MR. CHILDERS: Sir, iu reply to the MR. FAWCETT, in reply, said, that hon. and gallant Gentleman, I have to telegraphs were always extended when inform him that aidos-de-camp to the it was reported that the extension was Queen in the Army and Navy do not likely to pay. In other cases, where a hold their appointments for fixed periods report was made to the contrary, the ex. of five years, but until promotion to tension was allowed under a guarantee. generals' or flag rank, and that these He had considered whether anything appointments are salaried. In the Auxicould be done to reduce the amount of liary Forces there is no rank above that the guarantee, and he had already sub- of colonel, and, consequently, the apmitted to the Treasury some proposals pointments continue for life, and they which, if adopted, would reduce the are purely honorary. I will consider the guarantee.

suggestion which he has made; but in no

comes on.

case could it, if adopted, apply to pre- 'I mentioned some time ago that Sir sent aides-de-camp.

Owen Lanyon bad received leave of

absence. He is now on his way to ARMY-MILITIA BANDS.

Europe, but was, when we last heard of CAPTAIN PRICE asked the Secretary him, in Newcastle, ready to reply to any

CAPTAIN PRICE asked the Secretary questions the Commissioners might wish of State for War, Whether he will con

to put. As to the fourth and fifth parts, sider the propriety of making an allowance to Militia Regiments for their of Sir Owen Lanyon's despatches, and

I have to say that we have given most bands, as in the Line Regiments ? MR. CHILDERS: Sir, there is no in- which we can give before the debate

will consider if there are any others tention to alter the present system as to Militia bands. The bandsmen are paid as Militiamen. I may add that fife and

CRIMINAL LAW – INEQUALITY OF drum bands are maintained throughout

SENTENCES. the year as part of the permanent Staff.

MR. MACFARLANE asked the Secre

tary of State for the Home Department, SOUTH AFRICA — THE TRANSVAAL If his attention has been called to three (NEGOTIATIONS).

sentences reported in the “ Times” of BARON HENRY DE WORMS asked the 27th instant, the first being the case the Under Secretary of State for the of a man named Hunt, who was conColonies, Whether Her Majesty's Go- victed of manslaughter for having, while vernment, before concluding peace with intoxicated, killed his wife, and, having the Boers, took any, and, if so, what, been told by the Chief Justice “that steps to ascertain from the Local Govern- human life was a precious thing," was ment in the Transvaal what the conduct sentenced to six weeks' hard labour; the of the Boers was in the outlying dis- second being the case of a man named tricts, and the true facts of the case ; Lewis, who, being sober, killed a young

a whether Sir Owen Lanyon was consulted woman with whom he lived, and was as to the advisability of making peace, sentenced by the same judge to five and generally as to the proposed terms, years' penal servitude; the third being either before or during the progress of the case of a man named Banks, who, the negotiations; whether Sir Owen for stealing some indiarubber cuttings, Lanyon has already been relieved of was sentenced by the Common Serjeant his functions; whether any Despatches to twelve months' hard labour; and, if have passed between Sir Owen Lanyon he will take into his consideration the and Her Majesty's Government; and, inequality of these sentences ? whether Her Majesty's Government will, Sir WILLIAM HARCOURT: Sir, prior to the Debate on the affairs in the the Question of the hon. Member seems Transvaal, place them in their entirety to be founded on the idea that I am upon the Table of the House ?

responsible for sentences. That respon. MR. GRANT DUFF: Sir, when the sibility is placed very wisely in the hon. Member put down the first part of Judicial, and not in the Executive Dehis Question, I think it had escaped his partment. The power of the Executive recollection that from nearly the com- Department to interfere with sentences mencement of the outbreak until the is very limited indeed. If a case is conclusion of peace communications be- brought before the Secretary of State, tween Her Majesty's Government and and there is any good ground for reducthe Local Government of the Transvaal ing a sentence, that, after consultation were interrupted by armed force. He with the Judge, is occasionally done. must also have forgotten that the Local But the hon. Member suggests that I Government of the Transvaal was during should review three sentences and bring the war shut up in Pretoria, and quite them to a comparative equality. That unable to obtain authentic information I cannot do. In some cases the sentences about the “conduct of the Boers in out- may be too light; but I have no power lying districts, or the true facts of tho to aggravate a sentence. I ought to case. As to the second part, I have to mention that I had an opportunity of say that Sir Owen Lanyon was not, and conversing with the Lord Chief Justice in the nature of things could not have on this subject yesterday; and he stated been, consulted. As to the third part, to me that the reason why, in one of

Mr. Childers

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