tion of the Royal Naval Engineers, and | interested in the Question had attended whether he can state how far he is prepared to revise their pay and status? MR. TREVELYAN: Sir, the Engineering Department of the Navy is the only Naval Service of importance which has recently sprung into existence, and its organization has not yet been arrranged on a final and satisfactory basis. When the Estimates are introduced next year I shall be prepared, if I still hold the Office which I now have the honour to fill, to submit to the House a scheme which I hope will meet with approval. In answer to a further Question, on that evening, the Notice would have received the attention of the House. Instead, however, of following such a course as I have indicated, the hon. Member now asks me to give him facilities for the discussion of his Motion. But he knows perfectly well what are the facilities at my disposal, and I cannot do better than repeat what I have stated many times in this House, and what cannot be unknown to the hon. Member-namely, that with regard to the whole of the time as to which we consider we have a moral option, our intention is to give it to the Irish Land Bill. But between the second reading MR. TREVELYAN said, that the of the Bill and the Committee it may be Navy Estimates would not be taken proper to allow an interval of a week to until an opportunity should present elapse. That being so, there will be itself to the Government of obtaining one evening at the command of the Goa clear night for their discussion. As vernment, and it is a matter of necessity to the Royal Naval Engineers, the Lords that that evening should be given to the of the Admiralty would be very pleased consideration of a financial measure to hear the opinions of hon. Members; without the authority of which the taxes but he could not promise that the re- of the country cannot be levied. This organization to which he had referred measure is absolutely necessary for auwould be explained at the time which thorizing the levying of the taxes, and might be fixed for the discussion of the with regard to it some inconvenience Estimates. The general outline of the has already arisen. I must therefore scheme had already been sketched, but treat this measure as a question of parano reason existed for taking any pre-mount importance. It may also be nemature step in connection with this sub-cessary to renew our demand for a Vote ject. of Credit. That is a matter which I PROTECTION OF PERSON AND PRO- but, in the present day, it is extremely hope will not give rise to any discussion; PERTY (IRELAND) ACT, 1881— ARREST OF MR. DILLON. MR. JUSTIN M'CARTHY asked the First Lord of the Treasury, Whether he will not, after the Second Reading of the Irish Land Law Bill, endeavour to afford some facilities for the discussion of the Notice which stands on the books of the House with reference to the arrest of Mr. Dillon, M.P. and the general conduct of the Irish Executive ? MR. GLADSTONE: Sir, in answering this Question I cannot but express my great regret, inasmuch as everyone must desire that a matter of this kind should be disposed of with as little delay as possible, that the hon. Member has not availed himself of any of the opportunities for bringing forward his Motion which were open to him as an independent Member. In all likelihood, if the hon. Member had thought fit to put down this Motion for Tuesday night last, and if some of the hon. Members Mr. Macliver difficult to anticipate what will and what will not give rise to discussion. But I certainly shall not interpose anything, in regard to which I consider we have option, so as to prevent the hon. Member from bringing forward his Motion if he is determined not to avail him self of the opportunities which he has as a private Member. On Tuesday next, for instance, he might probably bring the matter forward, there being very little indeed to be discussed on that day, except certain Irish Motions, with regard to which there would probably be a disposition on the part of Irish Members to accommodate the hon. Member. It appears to me that the hon. Member ought then to have an opportunity of bringing forward his Motion; but in the meantime he might reserve the discretionary power of making use of any portion of Monday that may be free after the Financial Bill is disposed of. MR. MITCHELL HENRY observed, | Mr. Downes, with another gentleman, that he had a Motion down for Tuesday came up, and on being informed what relating to the industrial development had taken place, protested against the of Ireland, and added that he certainly should not give way in the manner suggested by the right hon. Gentleman. MR. T. P. O'CONNOR suggested that the right hon. Gentleman might propose a Morning Sitting on Tuesday for the discussion of his hon. Friend's Motion. MR. MAC IVER hoped the right hon. Gentleman would not be too sanguine about the rapid progress of the Customs and Inland Revenue Bill. STATE OF IRELAND-ILLEGAL PLA case being heard out of petty sessions. The magistrates, though not bound so to do, yielded to Mr. Downes's objection, and accordingly took bail for Clarke's appearance at the next petty sessions, on the 21st instant, to answer the charge. As to the legal part of the Question, I have to state that the magistrates had jurisdiction to deal with the case out of petty sessions as they proposed to do. MR. PARNELL asked if the magistrates had power to sentence a man to a month's imprisonment in such a case? THE ATTORNEY GENERAL FOR IRELAND (Mr. Law): Yes, Sir, in the default of finding sureties for good behaviour. MR. T. D. SULLIVAN asked if the placard could be correctly described as inflammatory? It was as follows: "Landlordism on its last legs. A sale will take place at the courthouse, Mullingar, on May in your thousands at the above sale, for the pur13, at 12 o'clock. Men of Westmeath, assemble pose of beholding the last struggle of landlordism against democracy. A contingency of the Land League branch of Westmeath will attend. God save Ireland!" MR. A. M. SULLIVAN asked if they were to understand that it was owing to the accident by which a solicitor was present that the man was not sent to gaol? CARD-ARREST AT MULLINGAR. MR. T. D. SULLIVAN asked Mr. Attorney General for Ireland, If it is a fact that a man named Clarke was, on Thursday May 12th, arrested without warrant at Mullingar on a charge of carrying an alleged illegal placard; if four magistrates at once, without having given the man any chance or opportunity of finding bail to answer the charge at petty sessions, proceeded to pass sentence on him for the alleged offence, such sentence being that he should undergo a month's imprisonment unless he found bail for good behaviour during six months; if it was only on the protest of the prisoner's solicitor, Mr. Downes, that the magistrates ultimately consented to remand the charge to petty sessions; if the magistrates had power, under the THE ATTORNEY GENERAL FOR circumstances, to adjudicate as they pro-IRELAND (Mr. Law): Sir, the man, posed, out of sessions; and, if they had as I understand the case, was not about not, will he take steps to insure that jus- to be sent to gaol at all, for he was tice shall be done in similar cases in ready to provide the sureties required. which prisoners may not be able to The proceedings were had under the procure for themselves the protection of Common Law jurisdiction of Justices of a legal defence? the Peace. In answer to the hon. Member for Westmeath, I have to say that I do consider the placard in question an inflammatory one. It encouraged, and was meant to encourage, disorder, and the interference of the magistrates was, in my opinion, quite justifiable. THE ATTORNEY GENERAL FOR IRELAND (Mr. LAW): Sir, I have inquired into this occurrence. On a market day in Mullingar, Clarke was carrying about and exhibiting a placard of an inflammatory character. The constabulary on duty requested him to desist, and on his refusal took him before the resident magistrate and three other magistrates who happened to be in town. They heard the charge at the police barrack, heard what Clarke had to say about it, and then told him he must find sureties for good behaviour, or in default be committed to gaol for one month. Clarke said he would provide the sureties required; but just then a solicitor, MR. A. M. SULLIVAN wondered if it was within the knowledge of the right hon. Gentleman that placards were issued by the Nonconformists inviting people to witness the seizure of ministers' money in Ireland? MR. T. D. SULLIVAN remarked, that the Attorney General had forgotten to answer whether the man was given the option of bail awaiting trial, and whether the course was legal. THE ATTORNEY GENERAL FOR IRELAND (Mr. Law): Such a course was perfectly legal. MR. H. H. FOWLER asked if they were to understand that by the law of Ireland a man would be sent to prison for a month for carrying a placard like the one in question? THE ATTORNEY GENERAL FOR IRELAND (Mr. LAW): For any breach of good behaviour a man may be sent to prison in England and in Ireland alike, if he does not give the security required for his future good behaviour. MR. H. H. FOWLER: Not in England. SOLWAY FISHERIES-GEO. IV. c. 45, s. 9 LEGISLATION. SIR JOHN HAY asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department, If his attention has been directed to the Report of the Commissioners on the Solway Fisheries (1881); and, if he proposes to introduce some legislative measure to mitigate the present excessive penalties to which persons are liable under the ninth clause c. 45 Geo. III. 1804, as recommended at page xiv. of the Report? SIR WILLIAM HARCOURT, in reply, said, his attention had been called to the Report, and he would be extremely glad if he could bring in a Bill to give effect to it. He would, however, see whether a Bill of the kind might not be introduced in the other House, with the hope that there might be time to get it through both Houses in the present Session. INTERNATIONAL LAW-TORPEDOES. as being secret instruments of warfare. for this reason if for no other, that there are other secret instruments of warfare, such as mines and countermines, and that it would be very difficult to sanction the one description and prohibit the other. EVICTIONS (IRELAND) COUNTY LORD CLAUD HAMILTON asked the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, If he has yet received further information relative to an inquest held on the 30th ult. on Lord Rossmore's property, in the townland of Dumbarton, county Monaghan; if, in addition to the report of the circumstances he saw in the "Freeman's Journal," which created an impression that also observed a letter from Lord Rossthe case was unjustifiable and harsh, he more's agent, Colonel Lloyd, in that paper, on the 5th instant, explanatory of the transaction; and, if he is aware that Stewart, the tenant sought to be evicted, and on whose evidence the original charge was made in the newspaper referred to, has been returned for trial on a charge of wilful and corrupt perjury said to have been committed at the inquest already alluded to? MR. W. E. FORSTER, in reply, said, that when he had before answered a Question on the subject he had not seen the letter from Lord Rossmore's agent, which gave a different aspect to the transaction. He saw, he might add, effect that Stewart had been brought a paragraph in the newspapers to the before the magistrates on a charge of perjury, and that he would be tried at the next Assizes. Pending the trial he could give no opinion in the matter. PARLIAMENTARY OATH-MR. BRAD LAUGH. MR. T. C. THOMPSON asked the First Lord of the Treasury, If the attention of Government has been called to a notice from the Greek Consul that tor- MR. ARTHUR O'CONNOR asked pedoes have been laid down for practice the First Lord of the Treasury, Whein the Gulf of Corinth; and, if the Go-ther, having regard to the two Acts of vernment will endeavour to put a stop to the use amongst civilized nations of these secret weapons in naval warfare? MR. GLADSTONE: Sir, I have no reason to suppose that the statement referred to by the hon. Member is incorrect. With regard to the latter part of the Question, Her Majesty's Government have certainly not formed any intention of negotiating with foreign Governments on the subject of torpedoes Parliament passed in the last Session for the relief of Lord Byron and Lord Plunket from the liabilities incurred by them by reason of their having voted as Members of Parliament without having taken the oaths prescribed by Law, the Government are prepared to promote a similar measure in relief of Mr. Bradlaugh; and, if not, why not? MR. GLADSTONE: Sir, it is certainly true that this House was pleased THE ROYAL MILITARY ASYLUM, CHELSEA-ROMAN CATHOLIC BOYS. MR. CALLAN asked the Secretary of State for War, Whether he will have any objection to lay upon the Table of the House a Copy of a Memorial from the Roman Catholic Clergymen at the Royal Military Asylum, Chelsea, on the subject of the provisions in force for the religious instruction and training of the Roman Catholic boys at that Institution, and of the reply, if any, given thereto by him? to pass Bills of Indemnity on behalf of Lord Byron and Lord Plunket, and it is likewise true that those Bills were taken in charge by Her Majesty's Government. But they were taken in charge by the Government, first of all because we were given to understand that the votes of the two noble Lords in question were given inadvertently; and secondly, because on a question of the kind, where there was no matter of difference of opinion, we thought it right as a matter of courtesy affecting the jurisdiction of the other House of Parliament to take the course which we adopted. With regard to the Question as it relates to Mr. Bradlaugh, I give no opinion upon it, beyond saying that it is evidently a different matter, and the Government have not thought it their duty in the present state of affairs to make any pro-and the Royal Military Asylum. I duly posal to the House on the subject. SOUTH AFRICA-THE TRANSVAAL- MR. CHILDERS: Sir, in reply to the hon. Member, I have to state that I received through Lord O'Hagan a Memorandum by Canon M'Mullen about the times of service and remuneration for the officiating priest at Chelsea Hospital represented the rev. gentleman's views to the Commissioners of the two Institutions, over whom I have no administrative control, with the result that some change in the service has been approved; and I have somewhat increased the remuneration of the officiating clergyman. I do not think it necessary to lay any Papers on the Table. PARLIAMENT-ARRANGEMENT OF PUBLIC BUSINESS- MR. GORST asked the Under Secretary of State for the Colonies, Whether Her Majesty's Government are in possession of any information respecting the commandeering expeditions which it is said are being organised by the Boers of the Transvaal against certain of the Native tribes, to punish them for their loyalty to Her Majesty's Government during the recent insurrection; and, whether Her Majesty's Govern- of the Treasury, Whether, in case the ment have still authority to protect the natives of the Transvaal against outrages during the sittings of the Commission; and, if so, what steps are being taken to insure that such authority will, if disregarded, be enforced? MR. GRANT DUFF: Sir, the most recent intelligence of anything of the kind we have had was on the 12th, when we were told by Sir Evelyn Wood that Major Buller had been sent with Mr. Joubert to part a Native tribe and some Boers said to be hostile to it in the Keate Award territory. In reply to the hon. and learned Member's second Question, I have to say that we have such authority, but that the steps to be taken must necessarily depend upon the circumstances of each particular case. MR. GORST asked whether the Government had heard anything of expeditions being organized at Pretoria ? MR. GRANT DUFF: No, Sir; we have heard of nothing of the kind. Irish Land Bill should be read a second time this evening, it is the intention of Her Majesty's Government to proceed. with the Bill in Committee on Monday next, and, if not, when; and whether the Bill in question shall have precedence in the Orders of the Day of other Government business, more especially the Customs and Inland Revenue Bill? MR. GLADSTONE said, he had, in effect, answered the Question in the statement which he had already made. It was, he thought, reasonable and proper that some time should be allowed to elapse between the second reading and the Committee; and, in the hope that the second reading would be agreed to that evening, that day week might be fixed for the later stage. FRANCE-THE NEW COMMERCIAL MR. JACOB BRIGHT asked the Affairs, Whether the Government had received an invitation from the French Government to enter into negotiations with them with regard to the Commercial Treaty? MR. GLADSTONE: Sir, as regards the first portion of the Question, no drawback has been allowed upon any malt stocks that were not gauged by the Inland Revenue. With regard to the second porSIR CHARLES W. DILKE: Sir, I tion of the Question, it cannot possibly be would ask permission to inform the ascertained on what day the gentleman House that an invitation has been re- named called at Somerset House; but an ceived from the French Government to answer can be given to the substance of commence at once formal negotiations the Question-namely, that the proposal for the renewal of the Treaty of Com- which he appears to have made was a merce with France, and that those ne- proposal which the Board of Inland gotiations will take place in London. Revenue were not able to entertain, beThe Commissioners for France will be cause the legal time which was allowed his Excellency the French Ambassador, for stock-taking, within which it might M. Marie (Director at the Ministry of have been acted upon, had at that period Commerce), and M. Bouillat, French expired. With regard to the third porConsul General in London. Her Ma- tion of the Question, the Board of Injesty's Government will lose no time in land Revenue contended that upon the appointing a Commission; and it is figures supplied to them by this firm, hoped that the first meeting will take their stocks were properly and accuplace on Tuesday morning next. I may rately taken, and the Board are quite add that we hear from the French Go-ready to abide by any judgment on the vernment, that should a Treaty be con- subject. cluded, it will not need to be presented to the existing Chamber, but would come for ratification before the new Chamber after the General Election. This will give ample time for negotia tion. WAYS AND MEANS-INLAND REVENUE COLONEL BARNE asked Mr. Chancel lor of the Exchequer, Is it the case that the malt drawback was allowed to some of the London brewers on the quantity as shown by their books, and not taken by gauge; is it the case that Mr. Morse waited upon Mr. Forcey at Somerset House on the 4th October to protest against the injustice of the way dry malt was gauged, and offered on behalf of his firm to forfeit all the drawback if the quantity of malt did not measure six per cent more than they were allowed upon; is it the case that Messrs. Morse and Woods were allowed only £4,491 48. 4d. drawback on malt they had in stock, and on which they were compelled by the Act to allow the parties to whom it was sold £4,763 58. 8d. drawback; this £4,491 48. 4d. was the return of three collections, Ipswich, Norwich, and Lynn-Ipswich, £1,879 15s. 3d.; Norwich, £692 48. 6d.; Lynn, £1,919 4s. 7d.: total, £4,491 48. 4d.; and, will he restore to Messrs. Morse and Woods the £272 18. 4d. so received from them? Mr. Jacob Bright SIR GEORGE CAMPBELL: Does the answer of the right hon. Gentleman apply to the Dublin brewers as well as the London brewers? MR. GLADSTONE: The information given to me makes no exception. PARLIAMENT-BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE-PARLIAMENTARY OATH BILL. In reply to Mr. NEWDEGATE, MR. GLADSTONE said, the Parlia mentary Oath Bill would not be taken given of the time when it would be taken. on Monday, and ample Notice would be TURKEY-DEATH OF THE LATE SULTAN ABDUL AZIZ-ALLEGED COMPLICITY OF MIDHAT PASHA. MR. M'COAN asked the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, Whether the Government had received any information from Her Majesty's Embassy at Constantinople, in reference to the conditions under which Midhat Pasha had either voluntarily surrendered himself or had been given up by the French Consul to the Turkish authorities? SIR CHARLES W. DILKE: Sir, we have not very definite information upon this point, and I would ask the hon. Member to accept my reply subject to possible correction. We have heard that Midhat Pasha, after having sought refuge at the French Consulate, himself left that Consulate and surrendered him |