that would be satisfactory to the hon. | partly by the agricultural depression Member. Whatever may be the case which has visited England and Ireland with the landlords, whatever may be the alike during the last few years, which case with the tenants, he, at all events, has partly caused the agitation, and can afford to wait. The landlords may partly by the condition of Ireland which not be able to afford to wait, they may has been produced by the agitation. It be unable to meet their obligations, is not the fact, as has been frequently they may be deprived almost of the alleged, that this condition, which in means of living; the tenants may not the opinion of everybody necessitates be able to live much longer in this state legislation of some kind, is a new thing, of continual warfare against their land- or that it dates from the accession of the lords; it may be almost impossible for present Government. In the years 1873, the people of these countries to endure 1879, and 1880, discussions upon the ques much longer the state of anarchy which tion took place in the House of Lords; disthis conflict involves; it may be impos- cussions to which I would refer at greater sible for anyone else to wait; but it is length were it not for the lateness of the perfectly possible, in fact, it is the hour. In the summers of 1878-9-80, game of the hon. Member for the City of the disturbed state of Ireland was Cork to wait, because the longer this acknowledged by Lord Cairns, who was state of things continues, the longer the then Lord Chancellor, and by the Duke feud between landlord and tenant is of Richmond and Gordon; and in 1880 kept up, the more embittered the rela- a quotation was made from a charge of tions between landlord and tenant be- Judge Fitzgerald, in which descriptions come, the more violent the measures of were given of the state of certain counattack on the rights of property and the ties in the West of Ireland, which reads measures of defence of the rights of word for word with the descriptions of property, the more it suits the hon. what was going on in Ireland during the Member's purpose, and the sooner he last winter in a much more extended will accomplish his end. His object is area. The causes which had produced perfectly plain, and I am not surprised the state of things in a limited part the hon. Member refuses his support to of Ireland in 1878-9-80 have produced it the Bill. But I cannot imagine how elsewhere since; and if the late Governhon. Members opposite can have any ment were unable to cope with the agitasympathy with those objects. It is their tion in a very limited area in 1878-9-80, desire-it must be their desire-that how is it possible to argue that it is enthis question should be settled, and tirely owing to the remissness of the settled as satisfactorily and as speedily present Government that that agitation as may be; it must be their object and has spread? It seems to me that a more desire that the question should be settled unfortunate quotation was never used with the smallest amount of change of than was used by the right hon. and which it is capable. What is the neces- learned Gentleman the senior Memberfor sity for legislation on this subject at the University of Dublin (Mr. Plunket) all? The hon. Member for Mid Lin- last night. He quoted from Shakspeare colnshire (Mr. Chaplin) has said he the linesdoes not consider any of the reasons given by the Prime Minister adequate or complete, and that in his opinion the real reason why the Bill has been brought in is the agitation in Ireland, and the obstruction which has been encountered in this House. Sir, I deny that it is the agitation in Ireland or the obstruction in this House which is the cause of this legislation; but I am perfectly willing to admit, and I do not think there can be any doubt of it, that one of the causes which rendered legislation necessary, and legislation of this character, is the present condition of Ireland. This condition has been caused

The Marquess of Hartington

"A little fire is quickly trodden out, “Much suffered, rivers will not quench." Sir, that little fire, which the right hon. and learned Gentleman seems to think has been burning only since the accession of the present Government to power, was burning, as I have said, and as is acknowledged by Members of the late Government, during their tenure of Office. That state of things was existing in the counties of Galway and Mayo during the three last years of the tenure of power of the late Government. [Sir STAFFORD NORTHCOTE dissented.] I see the right hon. Gentleman (Sir Stafford Northcote) shaking his head. I am afraid I

"I also regret to say, on the part of the Government, that there is much reason to believe that these occurrences in that district are not merely isolated acts having their origin in purely local circumstances, but that they are more or less connected with a larger organization-an organization having the double effect of leading to the commission of these crimes, and bringing to bear in the district where they are committed a system of terrorism and alarm which prevents any evidence being given against the authors of the crimes. With all the means of information which we possess, while I cannot say that undetected and unpunished crime has increased and is increasing in the greater part of Ireland, I believe that in the particular locality to which reference has been made the state of the country is serious, and it is certainly a subject of great anxiety to the Government."[3 Hansard, ccxxxix. 1209.]

In the next year the Duke of Richmond and Gordon made a similar declaration; and in the spring of last year, on March 15th, the following quotation was made in the charge of Judge Fitzgerald :

must read the extracts. In 1878, Lord | Members, pledged to support an extenCairns saidsion of this system. Well, that was the condition of the country, which had long existed, and which I admit had become infinitely worse during the last year, and which I have also shown the late Government were absolutely unable to cope with, although it was then on a much smaller scale. Sir, what is the present condition of Ireland? It is too little to say that we are within a measurable distance of civil war. In some parts of the country there does actually exist civil war between landlord and tenant, and the consequences to the community are equally deplorable, whichever Party may be in power. Many parts of the country are in such a condition that rent cannot be collected except it is at the cost of wholesale evictions-evictions which turn numbers of persons out of house and home, and which create a most bitter feeling between classes in Ireland. And if the law is not enforced, the consequence is "There seems to be sufficient evidence of an extensive combination for the purpose of for- equally deplorable, because a number cibly interfering to prevent the payment of rent of landlords are defrauded of their just by tenants to their landlords. This combination and legitimate rights. Well, Sir, such manifests its existence in various ways-by the a state of things as exists in a great part posting of threatening letters demanding such reduction as these persons judge themselves enof Ireland, and which, on a limited scale, titled to; by threats of violence to those who existed during the last years of the continue the payment of rent, and to those who tenure of Office of the late Government, it is apprehended are willing to pay it, and in was the sole reason for the legislation some instances by actual violence to those who with regard to this question. I will discharge their legal obligations in the payment of their rent. The feeling has further displayed only say one word concerning the prinitself by threats against ministers of the Law ciples contained in the Bill. With the whose duty it is to serve civil bill processes, by exception of the hon. Member for Mid the use of violence to those who have discharged Lincolnshire (Mr. Chaplin), we have this duty, and in many instances by violence and irritation committed in the face of the con- heard no strong denunciation of those stituted authority. This last nature of agrarian principles. The right hon. Gentleman crime is dangerous, because it is plain it will (Sir Stafford Northcote) has greatly lead to bloodshed, which no one can contem- changed his views since last year, when plate calmly." he referred to the "three F's " as Well, I ask whether these descriptions"Fraud, Force, and Folly." I think are not descriptions of identically the same state of things that now exists? [Lord RANDOLPH CHURCHILL: Then there were the Peace Preservation Acts.] There was the little fire burning. It was only in a small part of Ireland, and the late Government were able to devote and concentrate their whole attention upon it.

They could use all the powers of the Peace Preservation Act; but they did not prevent it. The state of things I have shown to exist was not suppressed in any one of the three years. At the General Election in 1880, the hon. Member for the City of Cork (Mr. Parnell) was returned, with 20 or 30

that to-night the right hon. Gentleman expressed his adhesion to one of the "three F's"-"fair rent." At all events, I have not heard him say he was unwilling there should be an interference by a Court of Law for the purpose of regulating the rent. Well, Sir, there is nothing, after all, that is very dreadful in the "three F's." If there is any objection to the "three F's," it is to the extent to which they may be applied, or to the manner in which they are enforced. In the "three F's" themselves, taken as principles, there is nothing to be alarmed at. On the contrary, I have no hesitation in saying that the "three [Eighth Night.]

F's" at this moment form the basis of provisions of the Bill. We shall have the management of a great many of the an ample opportunity of discussing them best estates in Ireland. Those prin- by-and-bye. The question for the deciples, recognized already to a great ex- cision of the House is an extremely tent by many landlords in Ireland, are simple one. In my idea, the law in Ire to be found in this Bill; but they are land has too long neglected to recognize to be found, not pure and simple, not the customary and equitable rights of without limitation, but with limitations the tenant. Nothing could be more disof every description. And the question tinct than the Report of the majority of is whether those principles, which are the Duke of Richmond's Commission admitted to be sound by many landlords that it has been the practice for a long in the management of their own estates, time in Ireland for the tenant to make cannot safely be engrafted on the Land the substantial improvements, and where Code of Ireland, secured as they are by that is the case it must inevitably follow the limitations in the Bill? Those prin- that the tenant has equitable rights ciples were advocated by the late Mr. We have gone all this time on the Butt, who, while sympathizing warmly assumption that the tenants in Ireland with the tenants of Ireland, certainly were able to protect these equitable did not entertain any of the ideas which rights, and that there ought to be freeare now held as to the expropriation of dom of contract. But we cannot do so landlords; they were recommended by now. We have to acknowledge that the authority of one Commission, and by freedom of contract does not exist in the authority of the majority of another Ireland, and that the tenants never have Commission - the Richmond Commis- been and are not in a position to prosion. Whatever the hon. Member for tect themselves in the possession of these Mid Lincolnshire (Mr. Chaplin) may equitable rights. The law has given & say, I am prepared to maintain that the presumption in favour of the landlord most vital of the "three F's," and that and against the tenant. It has given which involves the adoption, to a certain everything to the landlord and nothing extent, of the others, is contained in the to the tenant. From 1870 we have enReport of the majority of the Duke of deavoured to reform that state of things Richmond's Commission. It must be by the Land Act of that year. We enadmitted that a passage in that Report deavoured, by a system mainly based on does contain the principle of judicial in- the imposition of certain penalties, and terference in the fixing of rent. No upon other provisions, to protect these doubt, the hon. Member said it was only customary and equitable rights to which meant that that power should be exer- the tenants of Ireland are entitled. The cised in certain places, and with refer-Act of 1870 has been found practically ence only to improvements made by tenants. But if there is to be interference at all, you must empower the Court to decide when that interference is to take place. You admit the principle when you admit the interference of the Court at all. The hon. Gentleman the Member for Mid Lincolnshire pointed out to us in a tone of triumph that the Commissioners were not prepared to support the "three F's" in their integrity; but it does not follow that if they were not prepared to support the "three F's" in their integrity, they were not the logical consequence of the recommendations which the Commissioners made. If you once sanction the principle of judicial interference for the purpose of fixing rents

inadequate; and what this Bill proposes to do is to supplement that Act by other and more direct provisions intended to secure to the tenant his equitable and customary rights. That issue is sufficiently intelligible. Is it expedient that changes in this direction should be made; and if it is expedient that the equitable and customary rights of the tenants of Ireland should be more fully recognized than they have been, do the changes proposed in this Bill fully and equitably meet that object? My belief is that they do, and that the Bill does supplement the provisions of the Act of 1870 in both particulars where hitherto it has failed. And, in that belief, I think the House would do well to support the will find that you have obtained a second reading of the Bill, and determine reality without security. I will not, for itself, if it is necessary, in Comat this hour of the night (1.20), de-mittee to make clearer and more simple tain the House by recapitulating the provisions.

you

The Marquess of Hartington

in order to ascertain the opinions of the farmers in regard to the provisions of the Bill, and especially in reference to the jurisdiction it was proposed to confer upon the County Court Judges. He had hoped that some pro

He

MR. CALLAN had no wish to detain | some anxiety for an explanation of what the House for more than a few minutes, fair rent was supposed to mean; but the and he should not interpose at all if it matter remained still as it did on the were not for the fact that in justifica- first day of the introduction of the Bill, tion both of himself and his consti- a kind of geometrical puzzle. Since the tuents he felt bound not to give a silent introduction of the Bill on the 7th of vote. He happened to belong to a sec- April, he had twice visited Ireland, and tion of the House, of whom there were he had spent a considerable time in now only two survivors, who, on an occa- travelling through the agricultural dission similar to the present, when districts of Louth, Armagh, and Monaghan, cussing a Land Bill for Ireland, felt bound to vote against it. He did not on the present occasion propose to follow a precedent which many of his Friends opposite deemed to be an unwise one. But, while he did not intend to oppose the second reading of the Bill, he re-mise would be made by the Government gretted the absence from it of what he conceived to be a cardinal principlenamely, fixity of tenure. During the Recess he had endeavoured to study the views, not of the enemies of the Bill, but of such of its friends as the hon. and learned Member for Dundalk (Mr. C. Russell). Speaking of free sale, the hon. and learned Gentleman said that in his judgment, if the restrictions now proposed were allowed to remain in the Bill, the expression "free sale" would be a perfect misnomer. Had anything occurred in the course of the debate to hold out a hope that in Committee the Bill, in this respect, would be improved? The same hon. and learned Gentleman, speaking of the resumption by the landlord, stated clearly and emphatically that the power of resumption by the landlord was a one-sided arrangement, which gave powers to the landlord that might be used with injurious effect towards the tenant. He would ask whether any promise had been made by the Government that that complaint would be remedied? Then, again, the same hon. and learned Gentleman, in speaking of the question of "fair rent," gave expression to the feeling which evidently pervaded the majority of Members of that House namely, that the provisions of the measure in regard to fair rent were most ambiguous. Although he (Mr. Callan) believed he understood what the object of the clause was, yet he confessed that he was by no means certain that he knew what was really meant by "fair rent." It was the most vital point in the whole of the Bill, and it ought to be expressed in language that "he who runs may read." He had waited with

that in Committee the clause relating to the County Court Judges would be eliminated from the Bill. But what did the right hon. Gentleman the Prime Minister say on Monday? He said it would not only be unwise but impossible to pass over a body of gentlemen who had had an opportunity under the Land Act of collecting a mass of experience such as was not possessed by any other body of gentlemen in Ireland. would give the House the opinion of an hon. and learned Member who was not a violent Land Leaguer, but was a supporter of the Government, and who sat immediately beside them - the same hon. and learned Gentleman to whom he had already alluded (Mr. C. Russell). What did that hon. and learned Gentleman say of these County Court Judges, whom they were told by the Prime Minister it was impossible to pass over? The hon. and learned Member said he had never read a Bill which, in its practical operation, would more thoroughly and entirely depend upon the machinery by which it was to be carried out. He believed the Bill might be made a boon to the Irish tenants if it were wisely, sympathetically, and honestly carried out; but it was also a Bill capable of being made restrictive and oppressive, if worked by people who chose to take an unsympathetic view of it. The hon. and learned Member then went on to say that the County Court Judges did not possess the confidence of the Irish people. He did not belong to the tenant class; he did not move amongst them; he had no sympathy with them, and those he moved amongst were those who felt no sympathy with them. He (Mr. Callan) had [Eighth Night.]

"I understand that you declined to sign the yearly agreement forwarded to you as my tel ant. I therefore require you to give up posses sion forthwith, as the covenants contained is the bailiff to your house on Monday for the your lease expired last May. I intend to send purpose of taking it over, and I hope you will give up possession without delay. Of course, if you forward the lease signed without delay. I

had some experience of county chair- | he would show to any hon. Member. men, and of three in particular, in his She held a lease from an English noble. own county. He might say of two man. To his (Mr. Callan's) knowledge, of them, who were Conservatives, that the late tenant had built upon the prowhile they were ready to express every perty a house and offices, and within sympathy for the Irish tenants in their the last 25 years had spent something acts, they had never been known to like £1,600 upon it. He laid it all show such sympathy. Yet, by this Bill, down in grass, and since the passing of they would be placed in a position to the Act of 1870 his lease had expired. judge what was a fair and an unfair And what did this English nobleman, or rent. Happening to be upon some pro- rather his trustees, do? He forced upon perty in the county of Louth on Satur- this Irish tenant a lease by which he day, he had examined the Poor Law covenanted to relinquish all rights under valuation, and he found there was the Land Act of 1870. He held in his one tenant whose farm was valued at hands all the correspondence, and among £31 108., but who paid to a county it was a letter dated in 1879. It was a chairman a rent of £63 78. 4d.-more letter to the tenant saying "Please get than 100 per cent above the Poor Law the enclosed lease signed and returned valuation. In the case of another ten- forthwith." And three days afterwards, ant, whose property was valued at £14 the tenant, not having complied with a-year, the rental was more than 100 this mandate, received another couched per cent above the Poor Law valua- as follows:tion. These tenants were voters; and, therefore, he had called upon them in order to see where the shoe pinched in regard to the present Bill, and they said "What justice could we expect from a county chairman if he happens to be similarly circumstanced to ours? Our landlord is the county chairman of another county, and he exacts from us an exorbitant rent-100 per cent over Griffith's valuation." He (Mr. Callan) might enter further into this matter, but he had no wish to make charges, indiscriminately, against the county chairmen. The gentleman to whom he referred was a Catholic, and a Liberal, connected with the county of Louth, and he put himself forward as a tenant-righter. He wished his hon. Friends the Members for Sligo joy of the county chairman they had got; but he certainly hoped that the poor impoverished tenants of that county would have some other Judge, under the provisions of the present Bill, than a county chairman who exacted from his tenants a rent that was more than 100 per cent more than Griffith's valuation. Then, again, in regard to leases, it was absolutely necessary that something should be done beyond what was proposed by the Bill of the Government. Even the Prime Minister himself admitted that the subject was one that was worthy of consideration. In the course of his progress last Saturday he (Mr. Callan) called upon an aged lady, and he had received from her in confidence certain documents which, in confidence,

Mr. Callan

have instructed the bailiff not to take further notice."

Thus, with his blunderbuss presented at his head, the tenant, who alone had made the farm a valuable one, was compelled to submit to the landlord's terms. He was told-"If you do not sign that document, relinquishing your rights and debarring yourself from all benefit under the Land Act of 1870, I will turn you out." Reference had been made in the course of the debate to the late Mr. Butt, particularly by the noble Marquess who had just addressed the House (the Marquess of Hartington), whose kindly and sympathetic speech made him (Mr. Callan) regret exceedingly that the noble Marquess, instead of being appointed to preside over the affairs of India, had not been placed at the head of the Irish Executive. Mr. Butt, speaking of the Land Bill of 1870, and summing up its merits and demerits, used these almost prophetic words

"Such a measure, if successful in some respects, will leave in our system such elements of disaster as will yet shake Irish society to its

base."

Mr. George Power Bryan, in moving the rejection of the Bill of 1870, said the