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tion, I am not aware of any means by been given in any case by any Governwhich such an arrangement can be ment with regard to any Treaty. I could rescinded. The fact is, that the Legis- not give that pledge. It would involve lature has, by a not very old Act of Par- a fundamental alteration as to the mode liament, made provision, through this of carrying on the Business of the counbody, for the conduct of the affairs of try. I have, however, already formally the School; and there are no means of conveyed to an hon. Member who takes taking the conduct of those affairs out an interest in the matter an assurance of their hands. With reference to the that he need entertain no anxiety on this second Question, I may allude to the subject. There is every security that inference to be drawn from it, which there can be-in this case very special would lead one to suppose that my hon. security—that no steps will be taken Friend is of opinion that the diminution except in the light of day, and within in the number of first classes in the case the full knowledge of the commercial of the Undergraduates of Christ Church community, as well as of Parliament; was due to the contaminating influence and I think that when my hon. Friend of the contact between the School and the Under Secretary of State for Foreign College. The Dean of Westminster gives Affairs proceeds to present to Parliament me this consolatory assurance with re- information with regard to the arrangegard to the composition of these Go- ments for carrying on the negotiations, it verning Bodies-namely, that out of 15 will be seen that no apprehension need persons the Dean and Chapter have only be entertained. three places; and, consequently, they cannot well corrupt the other 12 mem- FOREIGN JEWS IN RUSSIA-EXPULbers, or if they do they must do so by

SION OF A NATURALIZED BRITISH some mysterious influence, which evi

SUBJECT. dently testifies to an occult virtue in Deans and Chapters. At Christ Church

BARON HENRY DE WORMS gave the case was quite as strong, the Go. Notice that, on Monday, he would ask verning Body consisting of 29 persons, the Under Secretary of State for Foreign and the Dean and Chapter having only Affairs, Whether he will lay upon the seven places; so that only about a fourtii Table of the IIouse a Copy of the Propart of the responsibility for anything test. by Her Majesty's Government to that takes place rests witủ the Dean and the Government of Russia relative to Chapter. My hon. Friend is dissatisfied the expulsion of Mr. Levisohn, a British with the conduct of the Governing Body; subject of the Jewish faith, and of the and upon that matter I must leave bim text of the Russian law bearing on the to form an independent judgment.

subject, and of the notice said to have

appeared in the “ Gazette" warning FRANCE-THE NEW COMMERCIAL British subjects professing the Jewish TREATY (NEGOTIATIONS).

faith from visiting Russia or taking up Mr. W. HOLMS asked the First Lord

their residence there? of the Treasury, Whether, having regard

SIR CHARLES W. DILKE explained to the fact that negotiations are about that he had nover said that the notice to begin with a view to making a new

given in The Gazette warned any British Commercial Treaty with France, which subjects from visiting Russia. will effect some of the most important industries of this Country, he will be so

STATE OF IRELAND-MOVEMENT OF good as to relieve the anxiety which is

TROOPS AND ARTILLERY. felt in connection with this question by MR. HIEALY asked the Secretary of giving an assurance that no Commercial State for War, Whether it was true, as Treaty will be concluded with France stated in the morning newspapers, that till it has been submitted to and ap- four pieces of artillery in a flying column proved of by Parliament ?

had been sent against the peasantry of Mr. GLADSTONE: The Question my Limerick; and, if so, whether he had hon. Friend asks me is whether we will yet received any news from the seat of give an assurance that no Commercial war ? Treaty will be concluded till it has MR. CHILDERS: I do not know whebeen submitted to and approved of by ther the hon. Gentleman puts this Ques, Parliament ? That pledge has never tion to me seriously. [Mr. HEALY: Yes.]

VOL. CCLXI. (THIRD BERIES] 2 I

sons

Then, all I can say is, that I have not | hour of the evening; but he felt that the seen the paragraph in the newspapers to present was too serious an occasion to which he alludes.

be allowed to pass without protest. They

knew well that in Ireland arrests were PROTECTION OF PERSON AND PRO- accustomed to be made without any

PERTY (IRELAND) ACT, 1881–MR. charge being brought against those ar. DILLON.

rested ; but he believed this was the MR. SEXTON asked the Chief Secre-Laws that a clergyman had been ar

first time since the abolition of the Penal tary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland,

Thorxh If it was true that Mr. Dillon had been they had a Tory Government in Ofica

rested for political reasons. obliged to return from the infirmary in in 1867, and though thousands of perKilmainham to an ordinary cell in con

were arrested in that year, yet sequence of the fact that he was obliged to herd with other people in the room single clergyman arrested on that occa

amongst that number there was not a which had been set apart for his separate sion, though the Tory Government were use; and whether, in view of his delicate state of health, steps would be taken to towards Catholic clergymen. How was

never given much credit for partiality allocate a room in the prison for his sole it that when a Liberal Government was occupation ?

Mr. W. E. FORSTER: If the hon. in Office, and that when the number arGentleman gives Notice of the Question,

rested was comparatively so small, tha: I shall answer it. What I believe is, He knew the three large farmers who

one of them was a Catholic clergyman? that it was found necessary to put other people who were ill in the same room since they were boys, and he knew them

were arrested in his neighbourhood with Mr. Dillon on account of the want to be active and industrious, and beof accommodation in the infirinary.

lieved they would not be guilty of any PEACE PRESERVATION (IRELAND) ACT, under the provisions of the Bill. It was,

reckless or illegal conduct to bring them 1881-ARRESTS OF REV. FATHER

therefore, a mystery to him why those SHEEHY AND OTHERS.

arrests should have taken place. One of MR. O'SULLIVAN asked the Chief these gentlemen was an auctioneer in 8 Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ire- large way of business, as well as being land, Whether it was true that that a large farmer, and he never knew a morning the Rev. Father Sheehy, Mr. man more attentive to his business than Henry Gilbertson, Mr. P. M'Carthy, he was. He (Mr. O'Sullivan) felt that and Mr. John Cleary were arrested at he would not be discharging his duty to Kilmallock, in the county of Limerick, his constituency if he allowed this occaunder the suspension of the Habeas Cor-sion to pass without calling attention to pus Act; and, if so, whether he would the arrest of these men. The Chief Seinform the House on what grounds those cretary had declined to tell them the four gentlemen had been arrested ? reason why they were arrested; but he

Mr. W. E. FORSTER: The four per-|(Mr. O'Sullivan) would tell them what sons named by the hon. Member were he thought was the cause of their arrest. arrested this morning under the provi- There was in his neighbourhood, and in sions of the Peace Preservation Act. I many other parts of the County Limerick, can only say it is with great regret that a great many rack-rented tenants ; but we have found it to be absolutely neces- there was particularly, on one estate sary to direct the arrest of a Roman Ca- in that neighbourhood, the most racktholic clergyman. With regard to the rented tenantry in any part of Irelandexact terms of the Warrant, we shall that was on the estate of a man named receive that document by post to-mor- Coote. It had been stated in that House row morning, and if the hon. Member that the purchasers in the Landed Eswill ask me, I will give him the terms tates Court were the greatest rackof it on Monday. It will be laid upon the renters; but this man was not a purTable of the House in the usual course. chaser in the Landed Estates Court. He

Mr. O'SULLIVAN said, that during was one of the real old Cromwellian the seven years which he had been in that settlers, and he was a man that rackHouse he had never risen to move the rented his tenantry more than any other adjournment of the House at that early landlord in the County Limerick. Writs

Mr. Childers

were flying about on that estate for a would be able to explain to the people half-year's and a year's rent. The ten- the glaring injustice that was being inants had paid their rents as long as they flicted upon this unfortunate man. There possibly could out of the little capital was no Court before which the question they had; but in the bad years of 1878 could be raised that would not reduce and 1879 they were not able to pay these the rents on this rack-rented property; rack rents. Within the last week there and this was the explanation of the fact had been an order to evict a man with that writs were being numerously served a large family on that property, named on the tenants occupying farms on the Murphy; and it was feared that if these estate, for they knew the Land Bill men were at liberty, they would be able would stop their hand. Feeling that, to tell the grievances of these tenants, he would not be doing his duty if he and that the people there would rise up allowed the arrest of four respectable as one man and try to prevent the evic- constituents of his to take place without tion of Murphy and others on that es any suflicient reason to pass unchaltate. _He believed that was the reason lenged. He therefore begged to move why Father Sheehy and these respect the adjournment of the House. able, industrious farmers had been ar- MR. SYNAN said, he was reluctant rested. That landlord had an agent to interfere with the ordinary Business named Townsend, and for the last 20 of the House by supporting Motions of years his conduct had been most tyran- this eccentric character; but the circumnical to the tenantry on several pro- stances of the present case rendered the perties round Kilmallock and Kilfinane. course which had been taken a proper There was no opportunity that occurred, course. It had never been known in whether the death of a father or mother, the course of the last century that a or the marriage of a son, that he did clergyman in Ireland had been arrested not try to advance the rent, and the and put into prison without trial. He consequence was that the rents on the could only suppose that the reason for estates in many cases were double the arrest of the Rev. Mr. Sheehy-a what they were 20 years ago. Another gentleman of the highest character, of his tenants had been served with alike in reference to education and relinotice to quit, so that between Mr. gion-was that he was a great favourite Coote and his agent, Townsend, the in the county, and, possessing large inneighbourhood was unfortunately in a fuence with the people, would have disturbed condition. The trouble had been able to exert considerable power been brewing for many years, for there among them in reference to certain evicwas no occasion that had not been taken tion proceedings which were impending. advantage of to raise the rent, until at He had been surprised that the right last the rents were beyond what the hon. Gentleman the Chief Secretary to tenants could pay. Then they revolted the Lord Lieutenant had stated his inagainst the agent. He had known a case ability to lay before the House the terms of where the rent had been raised three the Warrant of arrest; because he undertimes in 25 years, so that what was only stood the right lou. Gentleman in the 198. 3d. per acre at that time was now course of the debate on the Protection of £2 18.9d. per acre. lle knew the neigh- Person and Property (Ireland) Bill to say bourhood in which the arrests had been that he would take care that no arrests made; he knew the persons who had should take place unless he had been been arrested, and he knew their history; communicated with beforehand. Would and he challenged the Chief Secretary the right hon. Gentleman say that that to the Lord Lieutenant to show that any clergyman had brought himself within of the persons arrested had committed the terms of the Act, and that he had any act which brought them legitimately incited people to crime, or that he had within the scope of the Coercion Act been a party to public disturbance in passed by Parliament a short time back. the district ? He knew the men by reThe truth was, that a farmer named pute, and he believed they were persons Murphy was to be evicted in the course of such a position that it was impossible of a week or two; and it was thought they would be guilty of offences of the dangerous by the Executive Gover ent, ki for any purpose of eir own.

le to leave in the neighbourhood certain thought it was time the Government men of intelligence and knowledge who gave the House some information on

was so.

the subject. At all events, they ought present occasion, and for this reasonto lay the Warrants on the Table. He that it is a charge upon the Government agreed that the present was an incon- which ought to be brought before the venient mode of bringing on a discussion House in such a manner as would enon the subject. But why was it done ? able it to say whether it agrees with the The Irish Members wanted a day to charge or not. discuss Mr. Dillon's arrest. They were LORD RANDOLPH CHURCHILL denied that opportunity; and if the pre- could not be altogether surprised that sent discussion had not been raised in the right hon. Gentleman the Chief Sethe way it had, no doubt they would cretary declined to enter into a discushave had to wait for such a long time that sion on the administration of the Coerby the time it was brought on the whole cion Act on a Motion for the adjournthing would have vanished from the ment of the House. But although these minds of the people. He said that was Motions had been made on two or three a subject that called for the immediate occasions, and although the Chief Secreattention of the Government, for an tary had always declined to go into any answer from the Government, and it discussion at that moment, yet he had would not do to tell them that they had always expressed, at the same time, his no information about it until they got burning anxiety to meet any charge the Warrant. He begged to second the which might be made against him. If Motion.

the right hon. Gentleman wished that Motion made, and Question proposed, profession of his to have much weight " That this House do now adjourn.".

with the House, it was very easy for

him to take a course which would make (Mr. O'Sullivan.)

the House perfectly confident that that MR. W. E. FORSTER: I wish to re

The Irish Government had now move one misapprehension in the mind for three months been in possession of of the hon. Member for Limerick, who extraordinary powers, and there was, no has last spoken, and that is, that these doubt, a great anxiety in the minds of arrests took place without my know many hon. Members-not only from lodge. I thought I had given the im- Ireland, but Members of the Opposition pression in my first answer that we had to discuss the state of Ireland and the examined into the matter when I said administration of the Coercion Act. The it was with great regret we found our- state of Ireland was quite as important selves absolutely compelled to arrest a as any Business which could be brought Catholic clergyman. The simple reason before the House. The fact was, that why I cannot give the exact terms of although the Government had brought the Warrant is because I have not yet in a very strong Coercion Act, although received them; but if the question is they had produced their remedial mea. repeated on Monday they will certainly sures, yet the condition of Ireland was be stated. With regard to the causes 50 times worse than it was when Parliaof the arrest, I beg to say that I must ment assembled. He could not conceive follow the course taken by my right anything more important than that; hon. Friend the Prime Minister on a and if the Chief Secretary was so anxious previous occasion-namely, that we can to meet the charges made against him, not enter into the question of these ar- let the Prime Minister take the first rests upon a Motion for the adjournment Government night and dispose of the of the House. I must distinctly inform matter. [“ Hear, hear!”] He was the House that we have made up our glad that the Prime Minister cheered minds that it would not be our duty to the statement, and that that course was do so. Individually, I am most anxious likely to be adopted. He must say he to meet any Motion that may be made was not surprised at the course the hon. against my conduct, or the conduct of Member for County Limerick had taken, the Irish Executive, in regard to this or. because the matter he had brought beany other arrests; and I shall be very fore the House was, as he believed, much surprised if I should not satisfy without precedent. The arrest of a the great majority in the House that we Roman Catholio priest, whether rightly could not have taken any other course. or wrongly--as to that he pronounced But I must respectfully decline to enter no opinion--was a thing calculated to into any

discussion of the matter on the shock the sensibilities of the Irish people Mr. Synan

from one end of the country to the other. I stitutional discussion of the Land Law That being so, the Chief Secretary ought (Ireland) Bill; and that was the moment not, he thought, to have taken refugo selected by the Government to arrest under the irregularity of the Motion, him. What, he asked, might be exbut should have at once stated to the pected to be the natural result of the House the reason why he had resorted passing of the Coercion Bills ? The to so unprecedented a measure. An er natural result, from what they heard planation the Irish Members had a right from the Government, would be the to demand. He was perfectly certain proclamation of the whole of Ireland, that the late Administration would not except the Province of Ulster-certainly have resorted to an act of this kind the proclamation of Dublin and Cork, in without the greatest possible necessity which, to a certain extent, existed eleexisting for it, and if they had donements of evil and danger to the Irish such a thing the Minister would have Government. Well, what did the Gobeen prepared to come to the Table and vernment do? They did not proclaim state all the reasons for the arrests. either Dublin or Cork until they deterThere was no doubt that the arrests had | mined to arrest Mr. Dillon, and then been most capricious. What was the they suspended the Constitutional liberdifference between the speeches deli- ties of Dublin, a city of 300,000 or vered by Father Sheehy and those of 400,000 inhabitants. In the whole course Archbishop Croke; and what was the of Irish history he did not think they difference between those and the speeches could find any record of so arbitrary of Mr. Brennan? They would like to an act. But the course of the Goknow why one man was arrested and vernment throughout had been, as he another left out? What was the logical had said, capricious. They gave the conclusion to be arrived at from the pro- House strong reasons for passing the ceedings of the Government? It was Coercion Acts, and how many persons that they desired, not directly, but in- had been arrested under them until a directly, to suppress the Land League recent period ? Just 30. That was the by Act of Parliament. He could not practical fulfilment of the pledge of the help thinking that the Land League had right hon. Gentleman the Chief Secrobeen rather useful than otherwise to the tary to the Lord Lieutenant that if ParGovernment, as violent speeches rather liament passed the Coercion Acts ho aided the progress of the Land Bill. would pacify Ireland. For a considerThoso violent speeches were checked by able time 30 persons only were arrested, an occasional arrest, but with the result and the result was that the fear the Acts that more violent speeches were made were intended to instil into the minds of the next day. While on this subject, the Irish people totally evaporated. If he could not lielp referring to the arrest they wished to restore order in Ireland, of Mr. Dillon. The hon. Member for which he very much doubted—["Oh!” Tipperary had, before leaving for Ire- / -well, they were not going the right land, publicly stated that he intended way about it by removing from the to defy the law and to teach the people minds of the people all apprehension as of Ireland how to resist the influences to the operation of the Acts. No one in of the Coercion Act. Mr. Dillon kept Ireland had the slightest fear of the his word. He made several speeches, Chief Secretary or the Lord Lieutenant. not one of them more violent than any As had been said the other day, the Irish of the others. Those speeches extended | Government had lost the respect of over several weeks, and produced a very every man in Ireland. He would add unfortunate result in Ireland as far as to that that they had lost the respect of the restoration of order in that country every single impartial person in the was concerned. But what did the Go- United Kingdom. There was, in his vernment do-rather, what did they not opinion, nothing more dangerous than do? They did not arrest Mr. Dillon. that a Government should extort from By their very apathy they encouraged Parlia:nent the unconstitutional powers him. He was allowed to remain at they now possessed--for many Conserliberty until the moment he was about vative Members were unwilling to into leave Ireland, to leave off making trust them with the exercise of those those speeches, to come over to the House powers and show that they were afraid of Commons and take part in the Con- to put them in operation. These Coor

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