ARMY APPROPRIATION BILL, 1919.

COMMITTEE ON MILITARY AFFAIRS, HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, Friday, May 3, 1918. The committee met at 10 o'clock a. m., Hon. S. Hubert Dent (chairman) presiding.

STATEMENT OF HON. NEWTON D. BAKER, SECRETARY OF WAR, ACCOMPANIED BY MAJ. GEN. PEYTON C. MARCH, ACTING CHIEF OF STAFF, AND LIEUT. COL. J. Q. A. BRETT, QUARTERMASTER CORPS.

The CHAIRMAN. Gen. March, you may proceed.

Gen. MARCH. Mr. Chairman, I have ordered a number of officers here to-day from the Quartermaster's Department who have been working out the details of the estimates submitted to you, and I have also ordered some representatives of the Ordnance Department to come before the committee. I will read a short statement with a view of showing you what the estimates are in gross, and then turn these officers over to you to be cross-examined in reference to the details. Before I read this statement I will say that the two estimates are presented in different ways. The estimate of the Quartermaster's Department is not a supplemental estimate, but a substitutive estimate, and the estimate submitted for the Quartermaster's Department last fall is withdrawn. This estimate which we are presenting to-day embraces both the figures which were presented at that time and the figures which we are now presenting, providing for the additional number of men in the Army.

In regard to the estimate for the Ordnance Department, the Chief of Ordnance will let the estimate which was submitted last December stand, and this is a supplemental estimate on his part.

As you go ahead with the detailed discussion of this estimate for the Quartermaster's Department, you will see that the figures were prepared by Gen. Goethals's department, after conference with the chairman of this committee, and they are in a slightly different form from the estimate submitted to the committee in former years. I will get Col. Brett to take up the details with you.

I would like to read a short statement to cover my end of the

matter:

The estimates of the Quartermaster's Department are grouped in 10 headings, which, together with the pay of the Army, aggregate $5,780,335,383.14.

The supplemental estimates for the Ordnance Department which come before this committee amount to $2,458,332,801, which, together with the $921,000,000 already estimated for by this department aggregate some $3,000,000,000. No additional estimate is submitted at this time for Medical, Engineer, and Signal Corps activities, so that the total War Department estimates for the fiscal year 1919 are, in round numbers $15,000,000,000.

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Mr. SHALLENBERGER. Are you including in the ordnance estimate an amount for artillery from this country? Does that estimate include artillery?

Gen. MARCH. No itein for artillery. The estimates for artillery go to the Committee on Appropriations.

Mr. KAHN. We are not furnishing artillery now for the National Guard. This committee has jurisdiction over that, but as the National Guard is abroad I presume there is no item in these estimates for artillery for the National Guard.

Gen. MARCH. All those things go to the other committee.

Mr. ANTHONY. What will this tremendous increase in the estimates for ordnance cover?

. Gen. MARCH. If you will allow me, I will take up the ordnance estimates on Monday morning, if that is satisfactory to the committee.

Unless the members of the committee have something to ask about this general plan, Col. Brett is prepared to give you the details.

Col. BRETT. This estimate presupposes a deficiency estimate to be submitted to the Committee on Appropriations covering the added needs of the Army, and that is figured from January 1 to June 30. That is on the basis that on July 1 there will be 2,168,780 enlisted men and 130,000 officers in the Army. This is the deficiency estimate I am speaking of which leads up to this estimate.

The deficiency estimate is supposed to take in an addition of 681,000 men, to bring the number of men in the service on January 1, 1918, up to the figures I have given you for July 1, 1918.

Mr. KAHN. I do not catch the drift of that. Have you presented

a deficiency estimate to the Committee on Appropriations?

Col. BRETT. No, sir; it is in course of preparation. It is being held to pick up everything that is left, and it will probably be presented in about three weeks.

Mr. KAHN. Will that embrace these figures?

Col. BRETT. It will not interfere with these figures in the least.

Mr. GREENE. You say this estimate is based upon an army of 2,168,780 enlisted men and 130,000 officers on July 1, 1918, and you contemplate a further appropriation to provide for 681,000 men?

Col. BRETT. No; the 681,000 men are to bring the number of men we had on January 1, 1918, up to these

Mr. GREENE (interposing). Up to the total of the former figures? Col. BRETT. Yes, sir. In other words, there was a total of 1,488,000 on January 1, 1918, which, with 681,000 new men, gives you in round numbers 2,169,000 men.

Mr. SHALLENBERGER. The reason for this deficiency is that we did not appropriate enough money in the previous year, or did not contemplate an army of practically 3,000,000 men on the 1st of next July. Col. BRETT. Yes, sir. The reason that deficiency is not presented at this time is so that everything can be cleared up and we will not have to submit a second deficiency.

The CHAIRMAN. As I recall it, you did ask from the Committee on Appropriations last year for an appropriation for an army of a little over 2,000,000 men, but the Committee on Appropriations did not give you that amount.

Col. BRETT. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. How many men did they appropriate for? Col. BRETT. That we can not tell you. They did not cut the number of men; they just simply cut the various amounts asked for.

Mr. GORDON. On the theory that you would not be able to raise the men?

Col. BRETT. Yes; they simply cut the various amounts.

The CHAIRMAN. When Gen. McCain was called before the committee, about the 1st of February, as I recall his testimony, we had in the Army then something like 1,680,000 men.

Col. BRETT. Yes; we did.

The CHAIRMAN. Now we have less?

Col. BRETT. No; we have 2,169,000, or we expect to have by July 1. The CHAIRMAN. How many have you now?

Col. BRETT. I have asked for those figures from The Adjutant General, but I have not got them yet.

Gen. MARCH. We have actually in the service to-day a total United States force of 1,885,000 men.

Mr. GARRETT. Officers and men ?

Gen. MARCH. The whole thing.

Mr. GREENE. Then the 681,000 men are already in process of being assimilated?

Col. BRETT. Yes, sir.

Mr. GREENE. So that it does not mean there are 681,000 men yet to be had?

Gen. MARCH. We are going right ahead with it.

The CHAIRMAN. There are practically only about 200,000 men necessary to fill out that number between now and the 1st of July. Col. BRETT. About 400,000 officers and men.

This deficiency estimate brings us up to June 30, with all of the needs of the Army met, providing the Committee on Appropriations gives us the money we ask for. It will probably be between $700,000,000 and $800,000,000. We have not got the construction program yet.

On July 1 we start with 2,168,780 enlisted men and 130,000 officers, and it is gradually increased during the year, and by the end of the year we are supposed to have 160,000 officers and 2,900,950 enlisted

men.

Mr. GREENE. At the end of the fiscal year 1919.

Col. BRETT. At the end of the fiscal year 1919, which this appropriation we are asking for covers.

Mr. LUNN. In round numbers that will be an army of 3,000,000

men.

Col. BRETT. A little over 3,000,000 men, including officers and enlisted men. It is an average for the fiscal year of 145,000 commissioned officers and 2,600,000 enlisted men.

Mr. GREENE. Then you are making calculations for wastage.
Col. BRETT. We start with 2,169,000 men.

Mr. GREENE. Does that total include an allowance for wastage? Col. BRETT. I can give you the number we get month by month if you care for it.

Mr. GREENE. No; I do not care for that at this time.

Mr. MCKENZIE. Of course there is no element of doubt remaining now in making an appropriation of this character for the pay of

officers and enlisted men such as there was under the old system. Having a draft law in force, you can have exactly as many men as you desire. If you want 2,900,000 men, you are going to get them, and we can appropriate for that number of men.

Col. BRETT. We can get the men.

Mr. MCKENZIE. There is no element of doubt about the number of men?

Col. BRETT. No, sir.

Mr. GORDON. Except the question of being able to clothe and equip them.

Mr. KAHN. The men are in the Army even without clothing. They were in the Army in all the camps without clothing.

Mr. GARRETT. What is the aggregate amount you are asking for for the fiscal year 1919-for 3,000,000 men?

Col. BRETT. The total amount of the appropriation for the whole thing is $5,780,335,383.14, to which there should be added $1,575,000, which is embraced in a letter, for construction and repair work at auxiliary remount depots and animal embarkation depots. The Quartermaster General embraced that in a letter to the Secretary of War on the 26th of April.

Mr. GARRETT. Is that the total amount it takes to keep an army of that size going for one year?

Col. BRETT. As far as the Quartermaster's Department is concerned.

Gen. MARCH. That is about one-third of the total amount that is necessary. That is only for the Quartermaster's Department. That is for subsistence, horses, forage, pay of the Army, and other items included under the Quartermaster's Department.

Col. BRETT. That is the story I have given you in reference to the number of men. This estimate is built up on the theory that we will get what we ask for in the deficiency estimate from the Committee on Appropriations. If we do, then we require for the support of the Army for the fiscal year 1919 what is necessary for the maintenance of the Army and the equipment of the additional number of men; that is, the number of men we get between July 1, 1918, and June 30, 1919. That is the difference between 2,168,780 men and 2,900,950 men, or in round numbers 732,000 men.

Mr. MCKENZIE. In making up this estimate for the pay of the men, I presume you have taken into consideration the increased pay of the number of men you expect to have in France on foreign pay. I understand you would have to figure in getting at the total amount about how many men they anticipated having over there.

Col. BRETT. The foreign pay and the maintenance for the men abroad, both for their pay and for other purposes, is built up strictly on the basis of the military program as announced by Gen. March.

Mr. MCKENZIE. You have also taken into consideration the new act recently passed about the allowance of commutation to officers in the field?

Col. BRETT. Yes; we increased the appropriation for commutation of quarters from $1,500,000 to $33,350,000. In other words, the best data I could get was to take 40 per cent of the 145,000 officers, which gives 58,000 officers that would benefit under this act. That was the best guess we could make. We took an average commutation