absorbed? This movement must be primed by desire to create a fully compatible situation and this is all that is needed.

We have in Dulles the safest, most convenient facility in the world. Let us enter into a joint program designed to achieve the high standards envisioned by those who designed it.

Let us work on the premise that we have much to do, and time will permit no dereliction of duty on anyone's part. The Congress, the CAB, the FAA, our friends at Friendship, and those of us in the northern Virginia area, should work for a common cause.

Gentlemen, and you, Mr. Chairman, we thank you very much for hearing us, and we will be happy to answer any questions you might have in regard to our statements, as time permits.

Senator SPONG. Thank you Mr. Waddell. I just have one or two questions I would like to ask you, but I would say that we will refer this testimony in its entirety to the CAB and the FAA for whatever comments that they might feel inclined to make at this time.

Senator SPONG. Now, if I understand your testimony, you agree in part with some of what Mr. Foster said here this morning?

Mr. WADDELL. That is correct.

Senator SPONG. About the present need for certain improvements here at Dulles, despite the fact that you are not taking care of the full passenger load that could be accommodated here; is that correct? Mr. WADDELL. That is correct, sir. We are concerned about a number of things.

During the peak hours, already we have deficiencies in baggage handling, both inbound and outbound. We are quite concerned with the upcoming 747 and the mobile lounge not being able to meet to the passenger door.

Senator SPONG. You were here when we took some additional testimony with regard to that?

Mr. WADDELL. Yes. However, was this Mr. Saunders?

Senator SPONG. Yes.

Mr. WADDELL. Right. But I would like to elaborate on that a little

more.

He pointed out that there would be only four or five steps involved by using passenger loading ramps. I feel that this would not be entirely true, because the height of the doors on the 707 and the DC-8 is approximately 13 feet, and on the upcoming 747 about 18 feet.

Well, it seems to me-I am no engineer-but in order to be able to be made up to this passenger door, it is going to require more than four or five steps. The steps would not go straight up, they would be, I am sure, slanted somewhat, and this is going to pose a tremendous problem to the airlines in inclement weather, snow, ice, rain, and also incapacitated passengers, involving wheelchairs.

We are quite concerned about this and it is necessary-as Mr. Saunders pointed out, approximately 50 percent of the airlines do use passenger ramps at this time-it is necessary to do this here at Dulles because the crews have to be able to get off the airplanes, and ground personnel able to get on and off the airplane. So this in my opinion is a problem, and it does not seem like a major engineering feat to adapt these mobile lounges to meet with the 747.

GROUND TRANSPORTATION

Senator SPONG. Thank you.

Now, you have quoted Mr. Cooper's statement in December with regard to the fact that ground transportation would be a factor in consideration of any removal of flights from one airport to another. When he talked about ground transportation was he talking about traffic congestion at the facilities, lack of parking, or do you think he was talking in terms of accessibility insofar as transportation to and from the airport was concerned?

Let me rephrase that question.

Mr. WADDELL. All right.

Senator SPONG. Let us assume that any decision made by the CAB will, as it most certainly will, have some consideration about the accessibility by way of public transportation to Dulles Airport.

Do you feel that the present transportation facilities out here could accommodate a transfer of 25 percent of National flights to Dulles at the present time?

Mr. WADDELL. I am going to refer this question to Mr. Gardner. But I believe with the completion of Route 66, this could be handled.

Mr. GARDNER. Mr. Chairman, I am certainly not an expert on transportation, but the State of Virginia, and the Federal Government has dilly-dallied now for some years on the completion of 66. They are talking now in Greenway about a rapid transit.

The State of New York and the New York Authority has been debating the location of another airport for New York for over 10 years and have not located it. The experts say if they should locate it tomorrow, it will take over 10 years to complete it and get it in operation.

We have one here, and I think it is ridiculous to talk about building a rapid transportation system that would take probably 10 years to complete, when with less money than they are talking about for a terminal in town, we could complete 66 from the Theodore Roosevelt Bridge to the inner beltway.

I think this one thing alone, as testified this morning, would cut from 26 down to 17 minutes on transportation downtown.

I think this is the main reason that the businessmen do not particularly want to come in here if they are going downtown, and vice

versa.

I know there has been a lot of congressional objection to cutting flights out of National, because they go home, and I think this is the thing that FAA and the CAB have got to overcome. Not so much the reluctance of the businessmen and other passengers to come in here, but I think these gentlemen on the Hill like to get home and they like the 10-minute ride from the Hill. Maybe it would be better for all concerned if we just furnished free helicopter service from the Hill to Dulles Airport.

Senator SPONG. I do not believe I will comment on that.

Then if I understand you, gentlemen, you would say that the completion of Route 66-and I think it was Mrs. Pannino who went under the river as well as over it with her testimony, coupled with additional crossing on the Potomac-you think that is the most basic prerequisite?

Mr. GARDNER. Yes, sir; it appears so to me. I live out in Rappahannock County, as you know, and Route 66 is being completed from the west to the east, and it looks like a bigger engineering job from 81 to 522 than going downtown. It is almost the same distance. And going over the mountains, and I would venture to say there is not 1 percent of the traffic that will be generated on that section of 66 that would not be from the beltway into town. It is difficult for an average common citizen to understand this kind of thinking.

Senator SPONG. Thank you very much.

As I stated, we are going to refer this testimony to the governmental agencies and will make the answers we receive available to you gentlemen.

Thank you.

Mr. WADDELL. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Senator SPONG. Mr. Toomey, and the next witness after Mr. Toomey will be Mr. Hechinger.

We are very pleased to have you gentlemen from the board of trade here with us.

STATEMENT OF T. MURRAY TOOMEY, CHAIRMAN, TRANSPORTATION COMMITTEE, WASHINGTON BOARD OF TRADE; ACCOMPANIED BY CHARLES COON, EXECUTIVE SECRETARY, AND GERALD COLLINS, CHAIRMAN, AVIATION COMMITTEE

Mr. TOOMEY. Thank you, Senator.

I am T. Murray Toomey, chairman of the transportation committee of the Metropolitan Washington Board of Trade. On my right, Mr. Charles Coon, the executive secretary of the Metropolitan Washington Board of Trade and on my left, Mr. Gerald Collins, chairman of the aviation committee of the board of trade.

The board of trade is composed of approximately 6,000 members in the Metropolitan Washington area, composed of various businesses, professions, and other allied fields.

NATIONAL AIRPORT

In the first part of this hearing regarding Washington air transportation facilities, we spelled out the importance of Washington National Airport to the National Capital area because of its air service function and its great economic contribution to the community. We indicated our approval of improvement of airport access and ground facilities for passengers and stated our view that National should increasingly concentrate on short-haul and shuttle operations. Finally, we testified that the question of the amount of and type of air service. our airports should provide the public can largely be resolved by putting more comprehensive international schedules at Dulles International Airport.

UNDERUTILIZATION OF DULLES

The question, "Why is Dulles International underutilized?" has a simple answer. Passengers will go to the airport that has the most comprehensive flight schedules.

Why doesn't Dulles have more comprehensive flight schedules? The reason is an accident of history. Washington National has developed comprehensive schedules over the years that range to some of the highest passenger-generating cities in America, such as Chicago, Atlanta, and Miami; and Baltimore's Friendship International Airport originally provided Washington with pure-jet service because Dulles had not been built. However, in 1969, the evidence clearly is that this historical distribution of air service does not serve the best interests of the Nation's Capital.

It is not reasonable in the face of congested streets, congested airport facilities, and congested airspace to continue to concentrate the National Capital's primary domestic air schedules at Washington National Airport. It is not reasonable in the face of the heavy and growing demand for air service to permit this magnificent, highly efficient and safe facility, Dulles International, to be underutilized.

The board of trade has been actively intervening in cases before the Civil Aeronautics Board for several years for the purpose of generating more flight schedules at Dulles. We have two objectives: More service overseas and more feeder service into Dulles from domestic terminals. We have experienced success in several CAB investigations such as the United States-Caribbean-South America case, the TransPacific case, and the inauguration of feeder service by Piedmont, Southern, and, just recently, Ozark Airlines. We are delighted, of course, with these developments which we believe indicates an increasing recognition by the CAB that:

AIRPORTS DEVELOPMENTS

1. Washington National Airport is virtually at capacity. There is a growing community sentiment that its airplane and passenger capacity should not be expanded. There is no need to concentrate airplanes and passengers at National when Dulles can handle several times that airport's capacity. Delays on the ground and in the air in addition to normal traveltime between various employment centers and homes in the city to National frequently result in an insignificant ground traveltime differential in the use of our two airports. Washington National can and should be assigned a limited role in our air transportation.

2. If Dulles International has comprehensive international schedules, pressure on New York City airports can be relieved in important measure. In addition, in many cases passengers from inland cities are simply paying a higher fare to depart New York for Europe when, given more choice in service available, they could just as well depart from Dulles, paying a lower domestic fare and saving time. The CAB has ruled in the last few weeks that Washington passengers headed for Europe have been the victims of discrimination because they have had to pay the same fare for a Dulles-Europe flight that they would pay for a Dulles-New York-Europe trip. This discrimination has been ordered to end on June 1, 1969.

3. The role of National Airport in Washington's air transportation is changing because of sheer demand for service by the public and the increasing size of aircraft being put into service by air car

riers. The shuttle service at National is a clear indicator of the proper future of this airport, which is that of a short-haul, shuttle, and VTOL east coast facility with longer haul domestic and international service at Dulles. This arrangement will produce balance in the utilization. of air facilities and will maximize convenience and service to the public.

We do not know anyone who disagrees with the view that relatively soon Dulles will be handling many millions of passengers a year. In its forecast dated February 1969, only 3 months ago, the FAA projects a 1980 passenger figure of 11.3 million at Dulles compared to 1.6 million in 1968. However, the FAA also predicts an increase of 6.6 million at National to a total of 16 million; and a 12.3 million increase at Friendship to 15 million per year. Clearly, these projections do not plan for any alternation in the role of National. Dulles will still be underutilized if it is the smallest airport in numbers of passengers served a decade from now. Apparently, the FAA projects a secondary role for Dulles International Airport, thereby distorting the proper utilization of Washington's two airports. The National Capital's air service should be planned and developed in relation to its two airports. Air service from Baltimore and its growing environs should be planned and developed at Friendship Airport.

GATEWAY TO AMERICA

Another issue important to this hearing is whether Dulles International is to become the gateway to America as so benefits this modern, elegant facility, which so beautifully typifies the unique character of Washington, the Nation's Capital. Who wants to look forward to Dulles being a third-rate airport when it can be the pride of the Nation and second only to Kennedy Airport in New York as an east coast gateway? Dulles must become, as envisioned by the Congress, the world's finest airport. It should be carefully noted that passengers find the facilities at Dulles more convenient and better designed for their use than at any other airport. It will be able to handle jumbo-jet aircraft. Its only important drawback is in the limited number of flights available.

TRAVELTIME

One final word. Much has been made by some people of the traveltime element in reaching Dulles from downtown Washington. We believe it should suffice to say that under public law, Interstate Route 66 will be routed across the Potomac via the Three Sisters Bridge, providing a 20- to 25-minute nonstop drive from the heart of Washington to Dulles. This development will indeed erase any contention that Dulles is "too difficult to get to," a notion which is and has been a myth. We note with interest that FAA quotes a DOT study to the effect that only one out of four traveler trips to our airports originates in downtown Washington. The access road to our airports is most likely, then, the Capital Beltway. This report underscores our view that flight schedules are the key to the utilization of Dulles. Policies developed now will determine the future use of our airports. The improvement in access that the development of I-66 will provide and the close