resolutions of 1779, and they had his approbation and con

sent.

Before he concluded, he referred to what Mr. Dempster had said, declaring, that he hoped the House would not be so disgraced as to have the doctrine of his honourable friend avowed by any minister, namely, that the dissentions in Ireland rendered such an extent of concession, on the part of Great Britain, necessary. He regarded the late proceedings there with a view to prevent the holding of the meetings of the delegates as highly unconstitutional. He said he should consider it as no answer to hear it said, "the laws of Ireland are not the same with those of this country." The statute law might differ in particular cases, but the common law was the same in both countries, springing from the same source, governed by the same precedents and the same usages, bearing the same analogy, and administered in courts precisely similar in their constitution to the courts of Westminster hall. What the common law of England, therefore, would not countenance and warrant, the common law of Ireland, he was persuaded, would neither countenance nor warrant: but be that as it might, he hoped that House was not to be told, that, from motives of apprehension and timidity, on account of the feuds and dissentions in Ireland, it became necessary for Great Britain to purchase her tranquillity at the expence of her trade, her commerce, and her navigation. He declared he differed with the chancellor of the exchequer, toto cœlo, as to the points in which the right honourable gentleman had said he would trust Ireland, and those in which he chose to "make assurance double sure:" Mr. Fox said he would trust every thing to her generosity, but not much to her prudence. Ireland would always give Great Britain every possible assistance when she had it in her power; but she might not act in moments of difficulty with a degree of wisdom equal to the exuberant gratitude of her nature. He said he would not challenge the truth of the declaration of the right honourable gentleman, that Ireland would be perfectly satisfied, and would ask no more of this country, after the proposed concessions were made; this might be true, for the best of all possible reasons, &c. because this country would have nothing left to concede. He repeated, that he believed he should be under the necessity of opposing the propositions, but he did most earnestly deprecate the idea, that because the parliament of Ireland had agreed to the propositions, and because the rejecting them would be productive of some mischief, that House was to be precluded from freely debating them, and exercising their

opinions as became them as members of parliament to exercise them for the good of their constituents.

The further consideration of the Resolution was postponed. The chairman was desired to report progress, and ask leave to sit again. A fortnight elapsed before the subject again made its appearance; during which interim a report, prepared by a committee of the board of trade and plantations, was laid by the minister upon the table of the House of Commons, to assist its deliberations. This report was stated to be founded upon the declarations and opinions of some of the principal manufacturers and merchants in the kingdom, who had been examined by the above-mentioned committee; and its particular object was to prove the expediency of that part of the system which related to reducing the duties payable upon the importation of Irish produce and manufactures in Great Britain, to what the same sort of articles were charged with in this country. In the mean time, the merchants and manufacturers who had been examined before the committee, joined by great numbers of others from every part of the nation, met together for the purpose of taking the Irish propositions into their consideration. During the course of their proceedings, it appeared, that the opinions of the former were in direct contradiction to the inferences which had been drawn upon their examination in the report laid before parliament. Whether this was occasioned by any change which, upon a fuller consideration, had taken place in the minds of the merchants and manufacturers themselves, or whether the committee of the board of trade and plantations had strained and perverted their declarations, it is not easy to determine. However, the consequence was, that it threw a considerable degree of discredit upon the report itself, and seemed to point out the necessity there was for the House of Commons to examine the different commercial and manufacturing bodies concerned, at their own bar. This mode of proceeding gave the first check to the system in its progress through the House, whilst without doors it became more unpopular, in proportion as it became more thoroughly investigated.

March 3.

Mr. Pitt observed to the House, that anxious as he was that they should proceed in settling the commercial intercourse between the two kingdoms, he would not press the business forward with indiscreet haste. At that moment he was unapprized of any application that was intended to be made from any quarter to be heard by counsel at the bar, or to produce any evidence, that might state to the House facts and circumstances, which had relation to the system, an outline of which he had the honour to open to them on Tuesday se'nnight; he should therefore name some day in the next week for the committee to sit again, for the purpose of receiving information, examining witnesses, or hearing counsel,

should any be offered; and when that day cante, if no application should be made to desire that counsel might be heard, or witnesses examined, it was his intention to propose some resolution upon the business. He concluded with moving, That the Committee of the whole House do sit again on Tuesday next.

to

Mr. Fox rose to declare, that should it happen that no application was made to be heard by counsel, or to offer evidence of facts at the bar, he for one should object to the right honourable gentleman's pressing the House to come any vote respecting the propositions that had been laid upon the table, as resolutions voted by the Irish_parliament; nor should he object to such a motion only on Tuesday next, but on that day week, or even that day month, should they not have by that time heard something more of what had been done upon the subject by the parliament of Ireland. Circumstanced as they were, it was impossible to proceed to vote any proposition whatever, before they knew the whole that the parliament of Ireland had done upon the subject, without getting into a situation the most extraordinary that ever parliament put a country into. He begged gentlemen most seriously to revolve in their minds the very singular predicament in which the parliament of England and the parliament of Ireland would stand, should that House, either on Tuesday next, or on any subsequent day, come to a decisive vote upon the subject without previously knowing what was the ultimatum of the parliament of Ireland. The right honourable gentleman had stated it as the great good of his system, and as matter of reproach to the noble lord in the blue ribbon, and to himself and to such other persons as had ever proposed any thing to be done for Ireland, that they had not taken care to obtain a return on the part of Ireland for what this country granted her. Now, as matters stood, the House was ignorant what that return, what that something, what that quid pra quo was. By slight conjecture only had he any idea what it was, and his conjecture was grounded upon the resolution of the parliament of Ireland, which Mr. Orde had proposed on the Monday subsequent to the vote of the former ten resolutions on the Friday. He supposed, therefore, that it was that resolution that was to be the return; but till the House knew it, they could >>not vote a decisive resolution of their own without precipitating themselves into a dilemma. The situation of the two countries would then be this: on the Journals of the parliament of England, and on the Journals of the parliament of Ireland, would stand resolutions criminating each other. When he, on a former occasion, reprobated the business being first opened in Ireland, as a matter equally indecent and inconvenient, and as a matter that would be attended with serious ill conse

quences, he had been answered by its being said, that if the parliament of England had first voted resolutions, and the parliament of Ireland should refuse to agree to them, it would be a circumstance disgraceful to this country, and perfectly nugatory. Now, this very disgrace would the House incur, should it proceed to a vote, before the parliament of Ireland had come to its ultimatum. It would be liable also to all the other inconveniencies that he had himself stated. Mr. Fox repeated his determination to oppose any attempt to press the House to a vote upon the subject, so early as Tuesday, desiring gentlemen to hold it in their minds, that they would have done nothing but sow the seeds of future ill blood between the two countries, should they vote a resolution, before they were informed of the ultimate determination of Ireland.

In reply to some reflections cast on him by Mr. Pitt,

Mr. Fox said, he had not been actuated by any wish prematurely, and at an improper time, to go into a general discussion of the affairs of Ireland, but had thought it candid to say fairly and plainly what his intentions were, if the right honourable gentleman should next Tuesday press the House to a decisive vote under the present circumstances of the business. The right honourable gentleman had charged him with inconsistency, but in fact there was no inconsistency in his having said, he disapproved of the business having been opened to the parliament of Ireland before it was stated in that House, and his having that day declared, he would object to any proposition that House might be called upon to decide, before they had heard the ultimatum of the parliament of Ireland, He had said, and he was sure that it would have been more handsome and more decent to have begun the business within those walls; but the other method having been taken, the case was so altered, that it should be known entirely and completely what the wishes of Ireland were, before that House proceeded to take any decisive step in the business. For his part, he disapproved of the matter, as well as the manner, of making the propositions; a free grant on the part of each country struck him as the properest mode of coming to an adjustment satisfactory to both. But, at any rate, it would have been better for the two parliaments to have separately resolved what each was disposed to give. Mr. Fox pointed out the extreme difference between Ireland declaring voluntarily, and on her own mere motive, what her wishes were; and the business being opened there by an Englishman, a member of the British parliament, who went over to Ireland, procured a seat in the

Irish House of Commons, and in the capacity of secretary to the lord lieutenant, or, as it would, unconstitutionally speaking, be called, acting as the British minister in Ireland. He contended that the ministers at home, and the ministers in Ireland, had led the parliaments of the two countries into the strange situation of holding a different language on the same business, and voting resolutions of a contradictory and even of a criminating nature. With regard to what the right honourable gentleman had said of industrious misrepresentation, he could only say for himself, that he had neither seen nor countenanced any misrepresentations; the publications he had seen were mostly extracts from the speech of Mr. Orde in the Irish House of Commons; the right honourable gentleman, therefore, must mean to charge Mr. Orde with misrepresentation, if he intended to charge any body. But of this he was sure, that to endeavour to represent the matter as it really was, to inform the people of a subject of the first importance to the national interests, to draw their attention to it sufficiently, was a laudable and a worthy species of industry, of which no man need be ashamed. Mr. Fox concluded with declaring his intention to oppose any attempt to call upon the House to come to a decisive vote till they had heard farther from Ireland.

March 11.

On Mr. Pitt's moving, That the House should again resolve itself into a committee of the whole House, to take into further consideration so much of the king's speech to both Houses, upon the 25th of January last, as relates to the adjustment of the commercial intercourse between Great Britain and Ireland,

Mr. Fox rose and said, that was the first opportunity that had presented itself for him to say a few words on the report of the lords of the committee of council, and of the conduct of his majesty's ministers, which he thought extremely unwise, in respect to the propositions of the Irish parliament, at that time on the table. It appeared from the report of the lords of the committee of council, that two questions had been referred, the one to desire their consideration "Upon the propriety of reducing duties payable in Great Britain on the importation of goods, the growth and manufacture of Ireland, to the same rate as the duties payable in Ireland on the im portation of the like goods, the growth and manufacture of