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Mr. GRAY. I think that is what the gentleman from Florida wanted to have on the record, the fact that we would get as much as we possibly could for the amount of money available and do it on a competitive bid basis.

Mr. MULLIGAN. That is correct.

I would further expect, gentlemen, that we would review the bids received with GSA, if GSX is the proper agency, and would agree with them on that to be awarded, because in this matter we are acting as the Government's agent, really, and we want to do it the way you think it should be done as far as letting construction or renovation bids is concerned.

Mr. CRAMER. The reason I raised the question is that I think it obvious that somewhere in the report or in the bill it should be provided that the contract letting and contract bidding and advertising, et cetera, ought to be handled in consultation or in cooperation with or with the advice of the GSA or the Secretary of the Interior, or what have you, to make certain there will be the lowest possible bid in order to get the maximum amount for the dollar spent.

I notice in paragraph 1 on page 1 relating to alterations of existing buildings, that the alterations to the station shall be as the Secretary of the Interior deems necessary within that $5 million limitation, but in relation to parking facilities there is no such requirement, except that he provide parking space for approximately 4,000 vehicles.

I was wondering if there were any reason that the Secretary of the Interior was left out or GSA was left out of the determination of the nature of those facilities.

Mr. MULLIGAN. I have no knowledge on the question, sir.

Mr. CRAMER. You would not object to including a similar provision in paragraph 3?

Mr. MULLIGAN. No, sir.

Mr. GROVER. How many of these parking spaces, which you say may run between 3,000 and 4,000, would normally be taken up by the transient personnel going from trains and parking cars ?

Mr. MULLIGAN. A very small percent.
Mr. GROVER. Approximately.
Mr. MULLIGAN. I would think the maximum might be 100 a day.

Mr. GROVER. A further question. Do you have a lease on the existing restaurant?

Mr. MULLIGAN. Yes, sir.
Mr. GROVER. What is the term of that lease?
Mr. MULLIGAN. It has 3 more years

to go. Mr. GROVER. Is there a renewal clause Mr. MULLIGAN. No.

Mr. GROVER. Would you supply to the committee information in regard to the net income to the Terminal Co. from the lease?

Mr. MULLIGAN. I can give you the total. I can give you the breakdown, also.

If you like, Mr. Chairman, I could offer for the record a list showing for the year past, 1966, the breakdown of total revenues from concessions, including the restaurant, which aggregated approximately $375,000.

Mr. GROVER. Is that gross or net?
Mr. MULLIGAN. That would be net, sir.

Mr. GRAY. There is a great potential here, with millions of visitors, for the Government to recoup these rentals, because they netted $375,000 last year just from the trade of a small number of people coming in by train.

Mr. CRAMER. Any earnings would be recouped by the Federal Government?

Mr. MULLIGAN. The answer is "Yes," as the matter has now evolved. All costs of operation and maintenance would be borne by the Government, and all revenues would accrue to the Government.

Mr. CRAMER. Have we made any exploration into the possibility of borrowing this $5 million and $11 million at less than 6 percent?

Mr. MULLIGAN. No, sir, we have not.
Mr. GRAY. What is that?

Mr. MULLIGAN. The question is, had we sought to borrow money, and the answer is no, we have not.

Mr. CRAMER. Have you made any explorations as to whether you could borrow it at 6 percent?

Mr. MULLIGAN. To the extent that we have some qualms about it. Is there some Government agency that might loan it to us at 4 percent? Really?

Mr. CRAMER. No. You are not a farmer, and we are not an REA.

Mr. Gray. If you were a foreign visitor, you could get it a lot cheaper.

Any other questions?

Let me again thank all the committee members, and also the witnesses, for coming this morning.

We will recess now and reconvene at 10 a.m. tomorrow with another list of witnesses. Thank you very

much. (Whereupon, at 12:25 p.m., the subcommittee recessed, to reconvene at 10 a.m., Wednesday, September 13, 1967.)

NATIONAL VISITOR CENTER ACT OF 1967

WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 13, 1967

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,
SUBCOMMITTEE ON PUBLIC BUILDINGS AND GROUNDS
OF THE COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC WORKS,

Washington, D.C. The subcommittee met at 10:16 a.m., in room 2167, Rayburn Building, Hon. Kenneth J. Gray (chairman of the subcommittee) presiding. Mr. GRAY. The committee will please come to order. Off the record. (Discussion off the record.)

Mr. Gray. The Subcommittee on Public Buildings and Grounds of the House Committee on Public Works is sitting this morning in continuation of hearings on H.R. 12603 and related bills, to supplement the purposes of the Public Buildings Act of 1959, by authorizing agreements and leases with respect to certain properties in the District of Columbia, for the purpose of a National Visitor Center, and for other purposes. The act would be known as the National Visitor Center Act of 1967.

I might announce for the record that in addition to the bills introduced previously, on yesterday five House bills and four Senate bills were introduced: H.Ř. 12823, by Mr. Eilberg; H.R. 12825, by Mr. Erlenborn; H.R. 12828, by Mr. Farbstein; and H.R 12831, by Mr. Kleppe.

And on the Senate side, S. 2391 was introduced by Senator Tydings, Senator Thurmond, Senator Scott, and Senator Baker.

These are all identical bills upon which we are holding hearings for the second day today.

Prior to calling the first witness, I would like to read a letter into the l'ecord :

DEAR MR. CHAIRMAN : I am most pleased with the considerable progress being made in behalf of the National Visitor Center, progress which is further facilitated by your introduction of and scheduled hearings on H.R. 12603. Having been invited to comment on H.R. 12603, I must refer to the judgment of the experts with regard to leasing arrangements between the Washington Terminal Company, the General Services Administration, and the Department of Interior. This is an area outside the operating jurisdiction of the Civil Service Commission. Therefore, we have no special skills or experience on which to make judgments or recommendations. We do, however, support the renovation and use of Union Station as a National Visitor Center. Also we have a continuing interest in the Center's proposed program content. We look forward to working with you, members of your subcommittee, and members of the Visitor Center Study Commission, in developing a program that will be truly inspirational and educational, one that will prove worthy of being a first step for every visitor to the Nation's Capital. Sincerely yours,

JOHN W. MACY, Jr., Chairman, U.S. Civil Service Commission.

35

There are also a number of additional letters received from House Members. They are too numerous to read, but I would ask, without objection, that they be inserted in the record at this point. (Letters referred to follow :)

CONGRESS OF THE UNITED STATES,

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,

Washington, D.C., August 26, 1967. Hon. KENNETH GRAY, Member of Congress, Washington, D.C.

DEAR KEN: Many thanks for your thoughtfulness and courtesy in bringing me up to date on the Commission studying the need for a National Capital Visitors Center.

You have done a splendid job as Chairman of this Commission and I commend you also for your introduction of H.R. 12603, authorizing a lease agreement with the Washington Terminal Company. I look forward to discussing this great possibility with you in the near future in person. With warmest personal regards and highest esteem, I am Sincerely,

WM. JENNINGS BRYAN DORN,

Member of Congress.

CONGRESS OF THE UNITED STATES,

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,

Washington, D.C. August 29, 1964. Hon. KEN GRAY, House of Representatives, Washington, D.C.

DEAR KEN: Thank you for your letter of August 24 regarding the National Capital Visitor's Center.

I appreciate your bringing me up to date on the progress of the Commission established to study the need for this Center, and I shall study your bill, H.R. 12603 carefully with a view to introducing an identical measure. Best regards. Sincerely,

WILLIAM D. HATHAWAY,

U.S. Congressman.

CONGRESS OF THE UNITED STATES,

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,

Washington, D.C., August 31, 1967. Hon. KENNETH GRAY, Chairman, House Subcommittee on Public Buildings and Grounds, Rayburn Building.

DEAR KEN: Thanks for the information about the Visitor's Center. Congratulations on your effective leadership in this regard. About four years ago I proposed that we get in action to establish such a center and it is gratifying to see the progress you are able to report.

I will look forward to the pleasure of discussing this with you personally one of these days. Sincerely yours,

PAUL FINDLEY, Representative in Congress.

CONGRESS OF THE UNITED STATES,

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,

Washington, D.C., September 5, 1967. Hon. KEN GRAY, U.S. House of Representatives, Rayburn House Office Building, Washington, D.C.

DEAR KEN: Thank you very much for your letter of August 24, 1967, concerning the introduction of your legislation which authorizes the General Sery

ices Administrator and the Secretary of the Interior to enter into a lease agreement with the Washington Terminal Company.

Although I do not plan to introduce legislation on this subject at this time, I recognize the seriousness of the problem you describe and will be happy to lend my support toward reaching a workable solution as quickly as possible. With best regards, Sincerely,

GARRY BROWN.

CONGRESS OF THE UNITED STATES,

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,

Washington, D.C., September 5, 1967. Hon. KEN GRAY, Chairman, House Subcommittee on Public Buildings and Grounds, Public Works

Committee, Rayburn Office Building, Washington, D.C. DEAR COLLEAGUE: I appreciate your detailed letter outlining some of the recommendations made by the 21 member commission to study the need for a National Capital Visitor's Center together with a copy of your bill, H.R. 12603, which will make this Center a reality.

As you know, I have been very much interested in this project since its inception and I am particularly pleased to note that provisions have been made for a heliport to be constructed on top of the Center.

It was good of you to send this information to me. I certainly look forward to receiving the Commission's recommendations around the 15th of this month. In the meantime, you can count on my support for H.R. 12603 when it comes to the floor of the House for action. Warmest regards. Sincerely,

SAMUEL N. FRIEDEL.

CONGRESS OF THE UNITED STATES,

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,

Washington, D.C., September 11, 1967. Hon. KENNETH J. GRAY, Rayburn House Office Building, Washington, D.C.

DEAR KEN: I very much appreciated your letter of August 24th concerning H.R. 12603, a Bill which you have introduced to create a National Capital Visitors Center.

I think that the financing arrangements which have been made for the Center are sensible, particularly if the annual lease payments can be repaid from parking fees and the sale of goods and services. I am not in favor of expensive new Federal facilities in Washington at this time which would contrast sharply with our efforts in other needed areas of the economy.

I will be happy to join you in co-sponsoring this Bill, as I am certain it will be of interest to the constituents of my District who visit Washington each year. Sincerely yours,

CHET HOLIFIELD.

CONGRESS OF THE UNITED STATES,

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,

Washington, D.C., September 13, 1967. Hon. KEN GRAY, House of Representatives, Washington, D.C.

DEAR KEN: Thank you very much for your letter concerning H.R. 12603.

I compliment you on the tremendous work you have done on this Commission and in this respect. Best wishes,

HENRY B. GONZALEZ.

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