question; but I utterly deny that it was incumbent on Mr. Pitt to make any such communication; or that his not making it warrants the hon. gent.'s conclusion. have interfered with their prayers or their advice, consider how much larger a body of the people have not interfered at all! What must their sense of the matter be supposed to be? Obviously, that they rest satisfied with the last determination of the House of Commons. And what was that last determination? It is recorded in the resolution of June 1812. The whole church of Scotland have been quiescent on the subject, with the exception of the presbytery of Glasgow, which, after discussing the propriety of petitioning on the subject, decided not to do so. Thus, in that country, where, a century ago, king William was obliged to take an oath to extirpate the Roman Catholics, not a voice is now to be heard in hostility to their being admitted to a just participation of the constitution. In truth, Sir, every man who hears me knows it is notorious to all the world,what was the impediment to Mr. Pitt's pursuing his own views of this question. Whether he did right in yielding to that impediment or not, is a point which has been over and over again discussed in this House, and which I will not weary the House with re-debating at present. I think he was right in that forbearance. I have acted myself on the same principle of forbearance since his death. But the impediment is in force no longer; and I have in my own mind the most perfect conviction not only that Mr. Pitt never changed his opinion upon the subject, fundamentally, that he considered that I vote therefore for going into the comopinion as suspended, not abandoned; mittee, in compliance with the prayers of and that had he been now happily alive, the petitioners, who almost generally con he would now have been pursuing the cur in praying for some final decision; in course which I think it my duty to pursue deference to the wishes of those whose on this occasion. This, I say, is my own very silence implies their expectation, conviction. I do not pretend to state it as their contented expectation, that we should my knowledge. I ask no deference to now proceed to the consideration of this any presumed authority of mine on this question in the manner and with the view point. I stand on Mr. Pitt's recorded prescribed and recorded by the last House words, compared with his known conduct; of Commons; but neither should I be saknown to all who either were contempo- tisfied to give this vote in conformity to rary with him in this House, or who have the inclinations of however large a majo traced the history of his public and par-rity of the people, if I were not conscien liamentary life. I have now, Sir, little further with which to detain the House. In voting for the committee, with a view to the calm, deli- | berate, and dispassionate consideration of this great question, I fulfil not only my own sense of public duty, but I verily believe the wishes of a majority of the community, even as expressed in the petitions upon your table. Of those petitions many pray that the emancipation (as it is improperly called) of the Catholics, may not be unconditional: I agree with those petitioners. Some pray for the interference of the legislature for the final settlement of the dispute. I would grant the prayer of those petitioners also. Even to those whose petitions are drawn up in hostility to the grant of fresh concessions, I say, "we must go into a committee even to execute your purpose fully and satisfactorily. It cannot be believed that any thing short of a deliberate decision after full discussion will settle a question so long in dispute." But beside the numerous petitioners who tiously convinced, at the same time, that by doing so I best consult the real and permanent interests of the British empire. After Mr. Canning had sat down, a very great uproar arose, and cries of "Question, question," resounded from every corner of the House. Mr. Bathurst remain ed on his legs for some time, and all his endeavours to obtain a hearing were ineffectual. A motion for adjournment was made by Mr. Ryder and seconded: but on the remonstrance of Mr. Ponsonby the motion was withdrawn, and order being restored: Mr. Bathurst proceeded. He reminded the House of the manner in which this question was carried in the last year;that it was done in the confident expecta tion, in which he certainly had not con curred, that such an arrangement might have been made with the Catholic body, as would have enabled the promoters of the measure to bring forward in this ses sion, a well-digested plan, mutually satis tholics? He The House divided at four o'clock on Wednesday morning. 224 For Mr. Grattan's Motion..... 26k List of the Majority. Cowper, hon. E. S. Creevey, T. Croker, J. W. -40 Daly, rt. hon. D. B. Dundas, C. Dundas, hon. L. Duncannon, visc. Doveton, G. Douglas, hon. F. S. N. Desart, earl of factory, of concession, guarded by securi- | be repealed. In answer to this, he said, ties. The proposed Bill, which had been that the oath alluded to was provisional, opened by the right hon. gentleman, con- and not fundamental; and to prove this tained a sweeping repeal of all restrictions; he quoted the authority of parliament in but not a word was said of the securities the time of queen Anne. which were to be substituted; yet it had been admitted, by a right hon. member, (Mr. Plunket) who had eloquently sup ported the motion, that some regulations were necessary; particularly with respect to the interference of the Pope, in the appointment of bishops. He would ask, what probability there was that any regulations would be submitted to by the CaAn hon. general (Mathew) who he believed was as likely to know the sentiments of the Catholics, had ridiculed the idea, and had claimed for them, on the ground of right, a full admission to all the offices of the state. complained, that there was a great misconception as to the mode in which this question was brought forward. It was certainly true, that such a question, affecting the national religion, must be considered in a committee; but he appealed to the practice of the House on former occasions, particularly when the relief from certain penal statutes was first granted to the Catholics, to shew that the petition for leave to bring in the Bill was first made, and then that motion was referred to a committee, in which the nature and object of that Bill were fully discussed and examined. Whereas, by the present mode, the House was led on in the dark to give its countenance to measures, which, if explained in detail, it would never have sanctioned. He adverted to the manner in which the interference of the clergy had been treated, and contended there was no body of men whose opinions would so naturally be expected, or to which greater deference should be paid. Mr. Grattan made a very brief reply. He said, that in all the speeches which had been made against his motion, the speakers had entered into a detail which was not sanctioned by the nature of the motion. The reason of which was, that they wished to go into the consideration of minute arti cles, in order to avoid the principle which they could not justly oppose. He had spoken with respect of the petitions, and therefore it was ridiculous to say that he had done otherwise. One argument was, that the oath which excluded Roman Catholics from parliament was a part of the Bill of Rights; and, of course, that when they should be admitted, part of that Bill would (VOL. XXIV.) Abercromby, hon. G. (32) Douglas, W. Douglas, W. R. K. Evelyn, L. Dunlop, gen. Elliot, rt. hon. W. Ellis, C. R. Ebrington, visc. Ellison, C. Fellowes, hon. N. Ferguson, R. C. Fitzgerald, rt. hon. M. Fitzgerald, LI. H. Fitzgerald, rt. hon. W. Fitzgerald, A. Flood, sir F. Fitzroy, lord C. Fitzroy, lord J. Foley, T. Muncaster, lord Seymour, lord R. Hood, S. Shaw, sir James Howard, hon. col. Shelly, Tim. Shiffner, G. Ryder, rt. hon. R. Hill, rt. hon. sir G. F. Scott, rt. hon. sir W. Houblon, J. A. Innis, H. Jocelyn, viscount Keck, G. A. L. Knatchbull, sir E. Lamb, T. P. Leigh, J. H. Leigh, R. H. Leslie, C. P. Simeon, J. Singleton, M. Somerset, lord A. Strahan, A. Strutt, col. Jos. Sullivan, rt. hon. J. Bankes, H. Lascelles, hon. H. PAIRED OFF. Peel, sir Rob. Rose, G. H. HOUSE OF COMMONS. THE PRINCESS OF WALES.] Mr. Whitbread, as he saw an hon. gentleman in his place, who had given notice of a motion for to-morrow, wished to ask him whether, under the circumstance that happened since his notice, of the Letter addressed by her royal highness the Princess of Wales, to the House of Commons, he still persisted in his intention of bringing forward the motion? Mr. Cochrane Johnstone replied, that he saw nothing, in what had occurred, to alter his view of the subject. It was his firm intention, therefore, to bring forward his motion to-morrow. MR. VANSITTART'S NEW PLAN OF FINANCE.] The Chancellor of the Exchequer moved the order of the day for the House to resolve itself into a Committee of the whole House, to consider of the Finances of Great Britain; and that the several Accounts of the National Debt and of the produce of the Consolidated Fund and War Taxes, be referred to the said Committee. The House having resolved itself into a Committee, Mr. Hawthorne in the chair, The Chancellor of the Exchequer addressed him to the following effect: Mr. Hawthorne; after the long and laborious attention which for several nights past the House has bestowed on a subject of the greatest importance, I should be unwilling to bring under its consideration any question likely to lead to a considerable length of discussion; but whatever differences of opinion may hereafter arise upon the important subject to which I wish to direct its attention, I flatter myself that the course of proceeding which it is my intention to suggest, will meet with general concurrence. It is not my intention this evening to call for the decision of the Committee upon any question which I may propose, but having explained my general view of the subject as clearly as I may be able, to recommend that the further discussion should be adjourned to a future day, when the House may come to a decision with further information and more mature judgment. On another point I equally anticipate the general approbation of the Committee, namely, in bringing under consideration the intended measures of Finance, before any of the pecuniary arrangements of the year are concluded, in order that all parties who may enter into any agreements with the government may form their bargains with a full knowledge of all the circumstances of the case, and that the scrupulous good faith and plain dealing in pecuniary transactions which has been so long the honour of this country may be strictly observed. Towards the close of the last session of parliament, a discussion took place upon the national finances, in which it appeared to be the general sentiment that some new measures were necessary, and in which I took the liberty to suggest several for the consideration of those gentlemen who were present. They were principally designed to support public credit, and relieve that depression which then appeared to weigh down our financial exertions; but since that time a great change has taken place. Six months have elapsed, the most eventful and extraordinary which the history of Europe has, perhaps, ever recorded; and which have placed our public credit and our national security on a basis of solidity which it might then have been deemed presumptuous to have contemplated. At that time, the issue of the important contest which was opening in the north of Europe was, to say the least, hazardous and doubtful. A general impression, indeed, rather prevailed, that either by arms or negociation, France would prevail against Russia, and would achieve what still was wanting for the subjugation of the continent of Europe. It is impossible to contemplate the events which followed without a mixture of admiration and horror; of admiration for the heroic virtues which have been displayed, and of horror for the extent of human misery which has been endured; in which I can by no means forget the miserable, though merited, and necessary destruction of so many myriads of the invading army. But from this struggle between insatiable, unprincipled, and remorseless ambition on the one side, and hardy, stubborn, though untutored, patriotism on the other, which has spread devastation over the extensive regions of the north, have followed consequences the most important, and hopes the most satisfactory to the cause of suffering humanity. It may be recollected that at the time to which I am alluding, though our discussion in a great degree turned upon the means of supporting Public Credit, and I pointed out some of those measures which, in case of extreme emergency, might be resorted to, and in which I expressed my confidence that the spirit and firmness of the nation would, in such a case, readily acquiesce; yet I stated my opinion, that there existed no immediate necessity for their adoption, and undoubtedly the necessity of resorting to measures of great severity is much lessened by the events which have since occurred. The measures which I then particularly pointed out, as likely to be proposed in the present session, were the adoption of some more efficacious plan for the Redemption of the Land Tax, and the provision of an increased proportion of Sinking Fund for so much of the loan of each year as might exceed the sum applicable to the redemption of the debt. To both these measures I now wish to call the attention of the Committee. Early in the summer the Redemption of the Land Tax was referred to the consideration of two noblemen, to whose labours on this important subject the public have already been greatly indebted; I mean the Lords Commissioners for the Redemption of Ecclesiastical Land Tax, lord Auckland and lord Glenbervie. These noblemen, whose diligence and ability cannot be too highly praised, have made a Report on the subject to the Treasury, which, by order of the House, has been laid upon its table, and referred to this Committee. Among many just remarks contained in that Report, on which it is intended to found a Bill, which I shall shortly have the honour to submit to the House, there is one leading principle on which I chiefly depend for success; that |