C "That the petitioners cannot but regard with deep concern those statutes which restrain and limit the exercise of the right of religious worship, and impose conditions and penalties that seem to them as unjust in their principles as they are injurious to the vital interests of true reli country, and the export of copper to France from this country was lost for ever. Was it unreasonable to say, that the same cause would produce a similar effect with regard to America? He therefore opposed the Bill upon every principle of public duty, and from an anxiety to protect the copper mines and manufactories of Eng.gion; and that the petitioners consider Iand from being thus unnecessarily exposed to irretrievable loss. He still hoped ministers would give up the Bill: if not, be should at least have the consolation of reflecting, that he had done all in his power to prevent the mischief it was calculated to inflict upon this country. Mr. Robinson supported the Bill upon the grounds of its always having been the practice during war to prohibit the exportation of these articles. Mr. Baring argued against the Bill, and stated that no answer whatever had been given to the facts and arguments of his hon. friend. Mr. Protheroe also opposed the Bill, stating that it was well known that iron mills for rolling iron had long been in use in America, and that those mills could be easily applied to the rolling of copper. Mr. Rose supported the Bill: but upon the suggestion of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, Mr. Robinson agreed to put off the third reading for a week, in order that the subject might receive further consideration of the Board of Trade. PETITIONS RESPECTING THE CLAIMS OF THE ROMAN CATHOLICS.] Petitions in favour of the Claims of the Roman Catholics, were presented from the freeholders of Cornwall, and the inhabitants of Exeter, Bristol, Shrewsbury, and Leeds. Petitions against the Claims of the Roman Catholics were presented from Stamford, Longford, Lostwithiel, Halifax, Cork, Alston, Leitrim, Queen's County, Tyrone, Londonderry, Wicklow, Kildare, Shrewsbury, Montgomery, and Plymouth Dock. PETITIONS OF THE ROMAN CATHOLICS OF IRELAND.] Mr. Grattan presented nine Petitions-of Roman Catholics of the county of Clare; of the county of Wexford; of the county and city of Waterford; of the county of Sligo; of the County and city of Cork; of the county and city of Kilkenny; of King's county; of the county of Galway; and of the Roman Catholics of Ireland; whose names are there-undersigned, on behalf of themselves and of others professing the Roman Catholic religion; setting forth, those statutes as originating in causes which no longer operate, and of which no trace at present exists, and as expressive of sentiments, with regard to the nature and extent of religious liberty, which no longer prevail, at a period when the subjects of the British empire, however they may differ with regard to the principles of their religion, and their mode of professing it, concur in a cordial attachment to the family on the throne, and when enlightened views of religious liberty, and a corresponding liberality of spirit, have been diffused among religious professions of all denominations; and that the petitioners, expressing their lively gratitude for the concessions made to their religious rights in the course of the present reign, earnestly but respectfully pray, that every remaining penal statute, which extends its operation to the province of religion, may be repealed, and that, whilst they conduct themselves as loyal, obedient, and peaceable subjects to the state, they, in common with all their fellow citizens, may be put in possession of complete religious freedom, and allowed to worship their Maker, and maintain their Christian profession, according to their own views and their incumbent duty, without being subjected, under the sanction of law, to any penalties or disabilities in consequence of their difference from the Established Church; and that the petitioners, confiding in the wisdom and justice of the House, pray, that their cause may be taken into consideration, and the relief granted to them for which they supplicate." Ordered to lie upon the table. PETITION OF THE ROMAN CATHOLICS OF ENGLAND.] Mr. William Elliot moved, "That the Resolution of the House of the 22d of June, in the last session of parliament, relative to the Laws affecting his Majesty's Roman Catholic subjects in Great Britain and Ireland, might be read." The said Resolution being read, Mr. Elliot said, he had taken the liberty of having this Resolution read, not only because it referred to a Petition which he was about to present, but because it was a vote which must carry with it more than ordinary weight in the future discussion of this momentous question-a Resolution which passed that House at a time when much religious ferment existed throughout the country, and which was decided after the House had refused the Catholic Claims (Hear, hear !)-but it now stood an honourable memorial upon the records of that House, of the change which had taken place in the minds and sentiments of that House-a change so great, which after some years of long, repeated, and elaborate discussion, had at last obtained the sanction of the legislature: a change of sentiment which four of the most illustrious statesmen that ever graced the annals of the British senate, concurred in, namely, Mr. Burke, Mr. Pitt, Mr. Fox, and Mr. Windham. The Petition he had now the honour to present, was from the same body of persons, for whom he had the honour of presenting a similar Petition last year the Roman Catholics of England. They then took the liberty of enumerating their grievances, to which he should now shortly advert. The House must be aware that in one quarter of our dominions that principle of policy had been pursued which he should be happy to see extended to all; in Canada there was no distinction on the ground of religion, all there participated equally in the rights and privileges of a British subject, and it must be recollected that in that great convulsion which severed America from the mother country, Canada alone stood firm. In Ireland there still remained a remnant of that unprosperous policy; but the Catholics of England, who were the old stock of all the illustrious families of this country, who were always distinguished for their loyalty and attachment to their sovereign, still laboured under all the disabilities which had ever existed against them. They were excluded from holding any office under the crown; they were excluded from holding any civil office in the country; they were excluded from degrees in the universities; and the respectable Roman Catholic country gentlemen were living in hospitality among their tenantry, but prohibited from acting in the magistracy. The Roman Catholic freeholder was prohibited from voting for members of parliament; they might go into the army, but in order to procure rank the English Catholic must go to Ireland, and there he might obtain the rank of colonel, but no more, and if he again returned to this country, his disa bility was revived-if the English Catholic went into the navy, by going to Ireland he might arrive at the command of the squadron now lying at Cork; but if by any accident he touched on the shores of England, he was again liable to all the pains and penalties.-There were some persons who had a sort of superstitious reverence for this principle, and hugged themselves in it, as if it were the very talisman of the constitution. But the last parliament had thought differently, and had felt that these restrictions were an eternal disgrace to our statute books, and ought to be repealed. These petitioners trusted the present parliament would follow up the spirit of that resolution, and remove those disabilities. Among the signatures to this Petition, were the names of some of the most illustrious families of this country-they professed a different religion; different only from ours, so far as we had rectified and purified it—but in their ecclesiastical policy they were in many respects nearly alike, as well as in many other of their forms and ceremonies. All they asked for was to be admitted to the rights and privileges of a British subject. "It must be recollected that when a weak monarch betrayed his country, the Roman Catholic nobility, and a Roman Catholic parliament, supported and maintained the constitution. Who displayed the glory of England in the ever memora ble battles of Cressy, Agincourt, and Poictiers, but the Roman Catholic nobility? Who resisted the Spanish Armada, and opposed a papal power, when threatening an invasion of this country? The Roman Catholic nobility: and it must not be for gotten, that for a century and a half they were admitted to the legislature, and took an active part in the councils of the nation. They were supported by this country in Corsica-they were established in Canada and more recently, not only with our money and our influence, but with our troops, we had supported a Popish people against an ambitious and tyrannical invader-we were not only fighting with Catholic soldiers in our pay, but Catholic generals in our service. He hoped therefore, that this House would take their Petition into its serious consideration: it would thereby secure to itself immortal honour, lay the foundation of our future peace and harmony, and ensure the strength and safety of the nation. Mr. Yorke expressed his surprise that the right hon. gentleman should think it necessary to enter into so many topics that might occasion debate, merely on presenting a petition. It was not his intention now to reply to the remarks just offered, but he rose merely to state, that before the House entered regularly upon the discussion of the Catholic Claims he should move that another document, besides that produced at the request of the right hon. gentleman, should be read, and as often as the subject should be debated he should submit the same motion; it would be that the 9th, 10th, and 11th sections of the Act of the 1st of William and Mary, chap. 2, commonly called the Bill of Rights, be read. Britain and Ireland, with a view to a final and conciliatory adjustment. "That your petitioners, fully confiding in the aforesaid vote of your honourable House, feel themselves called upon, in justice to their families and themselves, again to solicit your attention to the many penal and disabling laws to which the Roman Catholics of England are subject, for adhering to tenets purely religious; while they can confidently assert, without fear of contradiction from any part of their conduct, that in loyalty and fidelity to their sovereign, in attachment to the constitution, and obedience to the laws of their country, they yield to no class whatever of his Majesty's most loyal subjects. "That your Petitioners, in thus again approaching your honourable House, beg leave to repeat, that they are actuated not more by a sense of the hardships and disabilities under which they labour, than by a desire to secure, on the most solid foundation, the peace and harmony of the British empire; and to obtain for themselves opportunities of manifesting by the most active exertions, their zeal and interest in the common cause in which their country is engaged, for the maintenance of its freedom and independence. Mr. W. Smith rose merely to observe, that the body of persons to whom he belonged, the Protestant Dissenters, had on former occasions availed themselves of the assistance of the right hon. gentleman (Yorke), and he was sorry to find that upon the Catholic question their opinions were completely at variance. The Catholics and the Dissenters differed it was true on points of faith, but in loyalty to the executive, and in attachment to the constitution, there was no distinction between them, and as a Protestant Dissenter he "That your petitioners beg leave to pledged himself never to stand up in that remind your honourable House, that they House exclusively to obtain the removal have cheerfully and readily taken the of the laws operating against the Dis- oaths, and signed the declarations, presenters, without coupling with it a motionscribed in the acts which have been for the restoration of their rights to the Roman Catholics, who were equally entitled to relief. The Petition was then brought up and read at length by the Clerk, as follows: To the Honourable the Commons of Great Britain and Ireland, in Parliament assembled, "We whose names are under written, Roman Catholics of England, humbly beg leave to represent to your honourable House "That in the fourth session of the last parliament, the Roman Catholics of England presented a petition to your honourable House, stating the principal grievances under which they labour; and humbly praying relief: "That in the last session of parliament, your honourable House came to a resolution for taking into its most serious consideration, early in the then next session of parliament, the laws affecting his Majesty's Roman Catholic subjects in Great passed for their relief; and have expressly disclaimed by them, every principle inconsistent with their duty to their king or their country, that has ever been charged against them.-And they further beg leave to observe, that the refusal of those oaths, the taking of which would at once liberate then from all the penalties and disabilities of which they complain, incontrovertibly prove how sacred they hold the obligation of an oath: your Petitioners also humbly conceive, that further securities cannot reasonably be required from them; but this, with a perfect spirit of conciliation, they leave to the wisdom and decision of the legislature, trusting and feeling confident that the legislature will never do or render nugatory its own work, by accompanying the relief granted, with any clause or clauses, to which your petitioners cannot conscientiously assent. "Your petitioners therefore most humbly pray, That your honourable House will take into its consideration, the many penalties and disabilities to which the Roman Catholics of England are subject, and adopt such measures for the total repeal of them as your honourable House shall, in its great wisdom and benignity, deem expedient.". It was then laid upon the table. MR. GRATTAN'S MOTION FOR A COMMITTEE ON THE CLAIMS OF THE ROMAN CATHOLICS.] On the motion of Mr. Yorke, the 9th, 10th and 11th sections of the Act of the 1st of William and Mary, chap. 2, commonly called the Bill of Rights, were read by the Clerk. After which, Mr. Grattan rose and said: Sir; I am very happy that the right hon. gentleman has caused those passages in the Bill of Rights to be read to the House, for I am distinctly of opinion, that the qualifications, which it enumerates as the indispensable accompaniments of the sovereignty of this empire, ought to form a part of the preamble of any bill, which may be introduced, into parliament, for the relief of the Roman Catholics; for, Sir, it is most necessary and most wise that, whenever we admit the Catholics to the privileges which they claim, we should ensure to the Protestants the unendangered continuance of all the privileges, which are founded on the Act of Settlement. The same measure which gives liberty to the one, should give security to the other. I rise, Sir, to support the Petition which I had the honour to present, from the Catholics of Ireland. I am sure I may say, without fear of contradiction, that this Petition is, generally, from the Catholics of Ireland. It is substantially true, that it conveys the wishes of that whole body. The motion which I mean to make is, that the House will resolve itself into a committee, in pursuance of the Resolution which, at the desire of my right hon. friend, has been read by the Clerk at the table. Sir, I know very well, that a resolution of a former parliament cannot bind its successor; at the same time, I do not conceive that I am guilty of any impropriety in referring to the resolution of a former parliament. I have to lament, and it would be miserable affectation not to acknowledge it, that the petitions against the claims of the Catholics are very numerously and very respectably signed. I have to la ment that there are still, in my native country, many individuals, enlightened in other respects, but fallible on the subject of religious distinctions. I have also to lament and condemn the vehement manner in which some of these petitions denounce the Catholics. I will avoid the example; and in the allusions which I may find it necessary to make to the Protestant petitions, I will speak of those, from whom they have proceeded, with the highest respect. I do respect and love many of them. I dissent partially from their opinions; but I respect and love them personally. Nay, more, I will consider them, not as present enemies, but as future friends to the Catholics. They live in the same country, they are embarked in the same cause, they have the same battles to fight, against the common enemy, for the common interest. Never can it be my wish to widen the breach between great bodies of men. The particular object of the Catholic petition itself is general concord. Never can I think that any difference in religion must necessarily lead to civil discord. Never can I believe that revelation came down to us a firebrand, to justify parliament in withholding, from a part of the subjects of the realm, their just rights. Sir, I am the more induced to hope that the cause which I have undertaken humbly to advocate will ultimately be successful, because I recollect that, in the Irish parliament of 1792, some general and strong resolutions were adopted against the claims then made by the Catholics and that, in the next session, more was actually granted to the Catholics than they had claimed. The understanding of the Irish parliament enlarged with the exigency of the state. I trust that this will be the case with us. With this view to the ultimate success of Catholic emancipation, I beg leave to make a few observations on the Anti-Catholic petitions on your table, using that liberty with the arguments they contain which my cause may require; but maintaining the greatest respect for the persons who have signed them, and who, I am persuaded, are sincere in that, which I, never. theless, consider to be a very mistaken view of this important subject. In the first place, Sir, I object to the manner in which, in many instances in this country, and more particularly in Ireland, these petitions have been obtained. In Ireland they have been the consequence then my motion ought to be rejected. But if, on the contrary, there does not appear any disaffection in their proceedings, in their speeches, or in their general conduct, then the resolution of thanks to the Irish Catholics, which was involved in the resolution of thanks to the army which gained the victory of Salamanca, should be followed up in its full and genuine spirit; and the Catholics of Ireland should be considered as entitled to the same civil liberties, as the other loyal subjects of his Majesty's empire have a natural and legal right to possess. of a requisition to the sheriffs of the respective counties, to call a meeting of the Protestant inhabitants. Now, it appears to me to be exceedingly objectionable for a public officer to call the people together in sects; and to give, to a private and party meeting, the authority of a public assembly. Again, it appears to me exceedingly objectionable thus to separate religious sects, and to give the semblance of public authority to religious animosities. I object again to calling one part of his Majesty's subjects to petition against another; and still more do I object to their petitioning another country against the liberties of their own. To Having thus stated the question to be one of allegiance, let us proceed, Sir, to Sir, I beg not to be understood as cast. examine how the Anti-Catholics have ing any reflections on the Irish Protestant made out their case. They say, that the petitioners; but their object has evidently Catholics desire political power. Why been neither more nor less than this-to should they not? Why should they be intreat the parliament of this country not sentenced to utter and hopeless excluto grant civil liberty to the great body of sion from all political power? But, Sir, the people of Ireland. They petition us the Catholics have not applied for political to inflict on their countrymen a sentence power. They have applied for political of perpetual incapacity: they petition us protection; and no farther for polito announce to Ireland, the destination of tical power than as political power is inbeing for ever a divided colony, and to separable from political protection. The impress on the general sense, an acquies- Catholics, having given pledges of their cence in the necessity of this being a di- allegiance, desire not to be bound in fetvided empire. Sitting for a moment, they ters, from which their fellow-subjects are have given judgment for eternity. Let us free; they desire not to be taxed without consider a little their reasons for this their own consent; they desire not to be judgment. One of the first observations tried by persons who are exclusively parwhich these petitions contain, is, that the tizans-not only partizans, but who are tone which the Catholics have assumed actually covenanted against them. renders it unwise to grant their claims. the enquiry, What is your wish?' they But that is not the question. We are not, reply, We wish for our liberties. We do in the parliament of the united empire, not demand this or that office, but we deentering into an examination of the argu-sire to possess our just civil qualifications.' ments which may have been urged in this or that body. We are not enquiring whether Mr. A. or Mr. B. may or may not have spoken too freely. What has the conduct of any particular assembly to do with the great body of the Catholics? The question is, shall the great body of the Catholics of Ireland be emancipated? The opponents of the Catholic claims say, that they ought not to be emancipated, because Mr. Fitzpatrick published a libel. But this is not a question dependent on such circumstances. I do not say that there may not have been much warmth exhibited in the discussion in Ireland; but I say that the question is-can you, in any of their proceedings, charge the Catholics with want of allegiance? It is a question of allegiance. If it can be shewn that the Catholics of Ireland have shewn a disposition adverse to loyalty, Do you understand them? Is this ambition? If it is ambition, then was Magna Charta ambition-then was the Declaration of Rights ambition. Protection, not power, is the request of the Catholics. The Catholic petitioners ask for protection; it is the Protestants who ask for power. The Protestants ask for the ascendancy of their sect-the Catholics ask for the ascendancy of the law. Let me repeat, that I wish to treat the Protestants with all possible respect. It is natural. that they should be tenacious of their peculiar privileges. But, unquestionably, they desire, by their petitions, to keep all the patronage of Ireland in their hands,— to maintain a continued ascendancy-to govern the other sects in the country; while the Catholics only desire, in their petitions, that the whole should be go-. verned by an equal law. The Protestant, |