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Mr. PECORA. When could you get them? Mr. REDMOND. I can arrange to send to New York and get it, Mr. Pecora, if the committee feels that it is necessary to put it into the record. Those are figures that have never been publicly disclosed.

Mr. PECORA. Why have they never been publicly disclosed ? Mr. Harris cannot give us any reason, so far as he knows.

Mr. REDMOND. The constitution, Mr. Pecora, the very provision that you read, provides that that financial statement shall be rendered to the governing committee and to the finance committee.

Mr. PECORA. I read that.

Mr. REDMOND. But it does not provide that it shall be sent to the members.

Mr. PECORA. I know that. I am trying to find out the reason for that.

Mr. REDMOND. Because it is the provision of the constitution, which is the contract adopted by the members themselves. They themselves by adopting the constitution have agreed that they will not receive financial statements.

Mr. PECORA. Have agreed that they will not receive financial statements?

Mr. REDMOND. That is it.

Mr. PECORA. That is your interpretation of the reason, is it, why that provision is in the constitution?

Mr. REDMOND. It is a contract, Mr. Pecora, and the members having agreed to that provision, are not in a position to demand & financial statement. That is their own agreement.

Mr. PECORA. But what is the policy that underlies this provision in the constitution, if you can tell us that?

Mr. REDMOND. I think it has been in the constitution—well, proba. bly 50 or 60 years. Mr. PECORA. But what is the policy underlying it?

Mr. REDMOND. I do not know what policy actuated the origina) members of the exchange to adopt that provision in the constitution, Mr. Pecora, because I was not alive, probably.

Mr. PECORA. Do you know of any good reason now, Mr. Redmond, why that information is not given as a matter of right to the membership of the stock exchange annually!

Mr. REDMOND. As Mr. Harris said, he felt that it would be given to any member who inquired.

Mr. PECORA. That does not answer the question. Mr. Harris also said that he never knew of a member that went to the president and got the information.

Mr. REDMOND. You asked him whether he had ever had the experience, Mr. Pecora.

Mr. PECORA. Whether he ever had any experience.

Mr. REDMOND. That does not mean whether he ever knew of any other member doing that.

Mr. PECORA. Do you know, Mr. Harris, whether any member ever went to the president and asked for this information and got it?

Mr. HARRIS. I think I know of a case; yes.
Mr. PECORA. What was that case and when did it arise?

Mr. Harris. This man spoke to me about it. I am not positive if he went or not.

Mr. PECORA. Oh, then do not tell us if you are not positive if he went or not. Let us have no guess about it.

Are you going to get that for us tomorrow?

Mr. REDMOND. I will send to New York and get and it will probably be down by tomorrow morning, Mr. Pecora.

The CHAIRMAN. Seats on the exchange have sold how much higher than the present price!

Mr. HARRIS. The highest they ever sold, I believe, was $625,000.
The CHAIRMAN. How long ago was that?
Mr. HARRIS. 1928, I think.

Mr. PECORA. Mr. Harris, I show you a document, very voluminous in form, entitled :

Answers submitted by the New York Stock Exchange to the questions asked of it by counsel for the United States Senate Committee on Banking and Currency (such questions being in the form agreed to in conferences with members of the staff of the counsel to the committee, and the representatives of the Exchange in conferences held in New York City on Oct. 10 and 11).

Will you look at it and tell me if you are able to identify it as the original answers submitted by the New York Stock Exchange to the questions referred to?

(Mr. Redmond and Mr. Harris compared two documents.) Mr. HARRIS. Yes, sir.

Mr. PECORA. I offer it in evidence, but, Mr. Chairman, in view of its voluminous character, ask that it be not spread on the stenographic minutes but be ordered printed in the printed copies of the hearings.

The CHAIRMAN. Let it be admitted.

(Document entitled “Answers Submitted by the New York Stock Exchange to the Questions Asked of It by Counsel for the United States Senate Committee on Banking and Currency” was thereupon designated “ Committee Exhibit No. 113, February 26, 1934", and the same appears in full in the printed record at the end of today's proceedings.)

Mr. PECORA. Mr. Chairman, I have before me a communication which was received by me as counsel for the committee from the president of the San Francisco Mining Exchange in response to a request that was addressed to them in behalf of the committee. I want to offer it in evidence.

The CHAIRMAN. Let it be admitted.

(Letter dated Nov. 27, 1933, from Charles E. Hudson, president San Francisco Mining Exchange, to Ferdinand Pecora, together with accompanying data, was thereupon designated “ Committee Exhibit No. 114, February 26, 1934.” The letter appears in the record in full immediately following where read by Mr. Pecora. The accompanying data appears in the printed record at the end of today's proceedings.)

Mr. PECORA. The document has been received in evidence as Committee Exhibit No. 114, and I would like to read the covering letter. It is on the letterhead of the San Francisco Mining Exchange, 327 Bush Street, San Francisco. [Reading:]

NOVEMBER 29, 1933. Mr. FERDINAND PECORA, Counsel, Committee on Banking and Currency,

285 Madison Avenue, New York City. DEAR SIR: Complying with your request we are enclosing herewith today's quotation sheet which gives the bids and offers and sales of stock listed in this exchange, together with the names and addresses of the members of the exchange.

In this connection, I wish to remark that our exchange may be termed a white chip trading rendezvous for stock. Mining and oil stocks are necessarily of a speculative character, and we do not attempt to make the public think they are anything else. A hole in the ground today may be a mine of value tomorrow, and the mine of immense development may run out of its ore and be a tremendous hole in the ground the next day. Our stocks, for that reason, as I said before, are speculative and do not have the immense quantity of water that many of the industrial stocks contain. The fact is, we have to supply water from the desert area while the industrials are usually organized by promoters and supplied with water with great hydraulic pumps from the Atlantic Ocean. If we can be of further service, we are at your command. Yours very truly,

(Signed) CHARLES E. HUDSON, President. P.S.—The bankers generally don't help us, because our activities interfere with their game.

(Laughter.] Is there any statement you want to make, Mr. Harris, to the committee, or any information you want to give to it, without the necessity of being specifically questioned thereon?

Mr. HARRIS. There is just one thing I would like to take up, Mr. Pecora.

Mr. PECORA. All right.

Mr. HARRIS. Friday, when I was here, I saw afterward in the press a report to the effect that the committee on publicity had spent a million dollars in the past 5 years. That is not quite accurate. The committee on publicity spent $794,174.19, of which $228,150.44 was salaries and wages, leaving a total of $566,043.75, which is a little in excess of $100,000 a year for 5 years spent by the committee on publicity. That includes all documents of every sort that they sent out, all their printed matter.

Mr. PECORA. Does not the figure of a million dollars approximately for the last 5 years include the disbursements and expenses of the economist's office, the economist of the stock exchange?

Mr. HARRIS. Yes, sir.

Mr. PECORA. And were given to us on the tabulation that was put in evidence here on Friday relating to those expenditures?

Mr. HARRIS. Yes, but I-
Mr. PECORA (interposing). Given to us by the stock exchange?

Mr. REDMOND. In answer to the questionnaire that required that the two be combined.

Mr. PECORA. We gave the figures, as I recall it, last Friday on the record as shown in that recapitulation both for the committee on publicity and the economist's office.

Mr. REDMOND. I think also the statement was made on the record, Mr. Pecora, that the exchange had expended more than a million dollars on publicity. That, of course, overlooks the fact that the economist's department is a purely statistical department engaged in collection of statistics and is not in any sense publicity work of any kind whatsoever. And that is the point which Mr. Harris apparently wished to bring out.

Mr. PECORA. Do not the members of the economist's staff furnish material to the publicity committee?

Mr. REDMOND. As they do to all other departments of the exchange, when called upon.

Mr. PECORA. And its office?
Mr. REDMOND. Exactly.

Mr. Pecora. And are used in the preparation of speeches, I presume, that are deliverel by officers of the exchange from time to time?

Mr. REDMOND. Occasionally, but it is primarily work in the collection of statistics which appear in the monthly bulletin of the exchange, which consists of absolutely nothing but a mass of graphs and figures and charts. It is purely statistical.

Mr. PECORA. Is there any other statement or evidence or information you want to give the committee, Mr. Harris, without being specifically questioned for the purpose?

Mr. HARRIS. No, sir. No, Mr. Pecora ; I do not think there is anything else.

Mr. PECORA. What is that?
Mr. Harris. No; there is nothing else.

Mr. PECORA. How about you, Mr. Redmond? Is there anything you would like to say to the committee on the subjects covered in the examination of Mr. Harris?

Mr. REDMOND. No, Mr. Pecora ; I think that I am appearing here as counsel, not precisely as a witness.

Mr. PECORA. But you have given some answers to questions.
Mr. REDMOND. Purely to facilitate the investigation.

Mr. PECORA. I know it. That is why I am extending now in behalf of the committee the invitation to you to make any statement, give any information in regard to the general subject of the examination of Mr. Harris, that you might see fit to make.

Mr. REDMOND. I do not think there is anything I want to say at this time, Mr. Pecora.

Mr. PECORA. All right.
The CHAIRMAN. Then Mr. Harris will be excused.

Mr. PECORA. May I ask Mr. Harris just one question more: Mr. Harris, I have before me a printed document. Will you look at it and tell me if you recognize it to be a statement made by Mr. Whitney before the House committee in the hearings on the Fletcher-Rayburn bill held before that committee last week, and which sets forth in outline, at least, the proposal of Mr. Whitney for regulation of securities exchanges that was referred to by you in the course of your testimony !

Mr. HARRIS. Yes, sir; that is the document.
Mr. PECORA. I ask that it be marked in evidence.
The CHAIRMAN. Let it be admitted.

Mr. REDMOND. I would like to call your attention to the fact that that is just a proof. We would like to submit a final copy, as there may be some minor corrections made in that one.

Mr. PECORA. Very well then; we will just mark this for identification and supplement it with the final form to be submitted by Mr. Redmond.

(Document purporting to be statement of Mr. Richard Whitney before the House Committee on Interstate and Foreign Commerce was thereupon designated “ Committee Exhibit No. 115 for identification, February 26, 1934 ", and the same appears in the printed record at the end of today's proceedings.)

(Document purporting to be final proof of statement or proposal of Mr. Richard Whitney before the House Committee on Interstate and Foreign Commerce was later furnished by Mr. Redmond, designated “ Committee Exhibit No. 116, February 26, 1934 ", and the same appears in the printed record at the end of today's proceedings.)

The CHAIRMAN. These hearings before the subcommittee will be resumed on call. At 2:30 today the full committee meets, and we will take up the bill S. 2693.

(Accordingly, at 1:03 p.m., the subcommittee adjourned, to meet again at the call of the chairman.)

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