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PLACE OF MEETING. —WALKER — SCHOULER — DAVIS - LIVERMORE - HATHAWAY.

Mr. WALKER. I will say only a word in reply to my friend, whom I respect very much, and really believe to be one of the most valuable and able members of the House of Representatives. Within the last half-hour, I have been to the office of the Treasurer of this Commonwealth, and he tells me that the pay for the travel of this Convention will amount to $5,000. If this Convention shall adjourn, that additional expense will be incurred. So we see very distinctly what the economical view of the question is. Now I submit to the Convention, whether the labors of these twenty-five men during the remainder of the time will be equivalent to $5,000; whether the people will regard it so; to say nothing of the inconvenience of an adjournment. Since I last spoke I have conversed with members from the country, who are farmers, and they say that they have made all their arrangements to be here sixty days. They have hired men for that time, and are calculating to be at home at haying time. But if we adjourn for one month, nobody knows at what time we shall come back here, and the calculations of these men will be disappointed. And how many of the twenty-five men will be here every day? I will be bound to say that no more than ten of them will attend constantly. And for the services of those ten, shall we incur this expense of $5,000, besides being likely to find ourselves in precisely the same predicament when we come back? But I hope the question will be decided soon, and I will not prolong the discussion.

Mr. SCHOULER, of Boston. I have only a remark or two to make, in reply to the gentleman who has just taken his seat. When he was upon the floor before, he stated that there were about three hundred debatable matters in the orders of

the day.

Mr. WALKER, (interposing). So I was informed by a member of the legislature, but I have since been informed that there are about fifty. I am happy to correct the error.

Mr. SCHOULER. Now, Sir, I think that the remarks made by the gentleman from Fairhaven, (Mr. Morton,) are unanswerable. If we are to make our debut in this Convention by solemnly disfranchising twenty-five towns of this Commonwealth, it appears to me that we begin wrong. I have a duty to perform, Sir, in the House of Representatives. I am also a member of this Convention. This Convention has also elected a member of the House of Representatives the Secretary of the Convention. We have adopted also the Rules and Orders of the House of Representatives; which say that no member shall be absent more than two days without leave of the House. How are we to fulfil this double duty. The gentleman, over the way, from Fitchburg, (Mr. Wood,) as well as the gentleman from Erving, (Mr. Griswold,) and the gentleman from Natick, (Mr. Wilson,) has found fault with the size of this house. Why, Sir, the walls of this house have echoed time and again with the voices of gentlemen stating that there is no inconvenience here, and that the number of the House of Representatives ought to be enlarged. But the gentleman from Fitchburg thinks that if we were to stay here and be subjected to the inconvenience of the members in the galleries, we should feel so uncomfortable that it would be the strongest inducement and the strongest argument that could be made for the reduction of the House of Representatives. Did the gentleman think for a mo

ment, that if the Hall is so inconvenient, that we must adjourn before trying it to another building, the Convention must come to the conclusion either to reduce the number of Representatives or to enlarge the State House?

The gentleman also informed the Convention that $70,000 had been appropriated at the present session to enlarge this hall. Such is not the fact. $75,000 has been appropriated during this session to build a fire-proof edifice for the library; but there has been no appropriation for the enlargement of this hall.

I am surprised to hear members argue deliberately in favor of disfranchising twenty-five members of this Convention. It was very easy for the gentleman from Natick to make the speech that he did; but I will ask him whether, if he was President of the Senate as he was last year, he would come in here and advocate our continuing on without an adjournment. I would ask the gentleman from Erving, also a member of the Senate last year, whether he would have made that speech against an adjournment. It seems to me that the gentlemen from Wilbraham and from Fairhaven have shown, that this Convention owes it to itself, and to the great principle of representation, to hold its sessions here, and to adjourn for a fortnight. I do not believe that the business of the Convention will be delayed one moment by it. And if it is thought best not to adjourn, we can very easily make an arrangement by which this Convention can sit here in the forenoon from nine until one, or from nine until two o'clock. Nobody supposes that for the first week or two we shall debate much. Our sessions will not probably be more than an hour in length. The House of Representatives for the first fortnight never sit more than an hour. We might meet in the morning at nine o'clock, and sit until ten, eleven, twelve, or one; and the House could then meet in the afternoon and evening; so that neither need to be discommoded. Again, every one knows that in discussing the principles which will come up for the consideration of the Convention, we shall wish to refer to books in our library. There are journals in our lobby, which, by the law of the State and the Rules of the House of Representatives, cannot be taken away. The Journals of the House of Representatives, for instance, cannot be taken away without a vote of the House. We should be obliged to establish a line of omnibuses to run between the State House and the Lowell Institute, or Marlborough Chapel, as it is frequently called. Why, Sir, the Constitution that we may frame would be called by the enemies of reform the Marlborough Chapel Constitution. They would make use of the name to ridicule the whole thing. The gentleman from Natick speaks of the great advantages in that hall for oratory. I believe he has aired his voice there. I never have, and I have no idea of its capacity. But I have heard the gentleman speak very well in this House, and I see no necessity for adjourning on that account. If we are determined not to adjourn for a fortnight, I hope we shall make an arrangement to meet here in the morning, while the House meets in the afternoon; and thus both can be accommodated.

Mr. DAVIS, of Fall River. As one who felt yesterday very seriously the inconvenience and the unwholesomeness of this hall, I cannot repress the decided conviction that it is wholly unsuitable for this body. Were we to remain here, in a very

[May 5th.

short time the large majority of the members would be almost unfitted for the duties imposed upon them. And these duties would be doubly oppressive to those of our members who are also members of the legislature. And if we adjourn our sittings, we are completely at the mercy of the present legislature of Massachusetts. Suppose the majority of that legislature to be opposed to the objects of the Convention. Could not those objects be completely frustrated by the legislature? The people of Massachusetts have sent four hundred persons here for the purpose of revising the organic law of the State. They did not expect the legislature to be in session, and it appears to me that the responsibility rests with the legislature. It is a matter with which we have nothing to do. It was not contemplated or provided for by the persons who sent us here. We have nothing to do with the present legislature of Massachusetts. Let them go on with their session. If we cannot have the use of this hall, we can adjourn to another. It appears to me that regard to our health and bodily vigor, upon which our mental powers so much depend, imperatively requires us to adjourn to another hall.

Mr. LIVERMORE, of Cambridge. I am ready to admit that there are many inconveniences in meeting in this hall; but I do not think they are insuperable. In 1836 the legislature was composed of more than 600 members, who were all accommodated in this hall. They completed their business before or about the commencement of the month of May, and adjourned. The hall was not then so well ventilated as it is at the present time. And although I am free to admit the inconveniences of this hall, I think there are much greater inconveniences in the one to which it is proposed to adjourn. The hall of the Lowell Institute is situated within about fifty feet of the great thoroughfare of the city, Washington Street. Any one who has attended lectures there in the evening must have been frequently disturbed by the passing of carriages through that street; and in the daytime the interruption is much greater. Besides, Sir, under that very hall, there are thirty or forty rooms appropriated to bathing purposes-hot baths, sulphur baths, aromatic baths-and all the odor of those baths will ascend to the hall above. And then we should be just above the kitchen of one of the largest hotels in the city. Is that a suitable place for the meeting of the Convention? I think not. If we must adjourn to another hall, I should hope that we might find one where we should not be compelled to inhale the variety of odors which surround that location.

Mr. HATHAWAY, of Freetown. The discussion of this question seems to me to have taken a pretty wide range. The question, as I understand it, is upon the acceptance of a Report of a Committee, recommending that we should occupy a certain hall in this city. Gentlemen have made various objections to that hall, and among the rest the gentleman who has just taken his seat has spoken of aromatic baths of various kinds. All I have to say in reference to that matter is that I am perfectly satisfied that this is not a proper and convenient place for such a body as is congregated here whether the legislature be in session or not, to occupy. That question has been settled in my mind from the fact of having suffered here for two days from the numbers pressed into this hall. And if the hall proposed should prove to be an unsuitable place, we have

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only to adjourn to some other place; and if a more suitable hall can be had, I have no doubt the fact will be ascertained. But so far as that matter is concerned, I think the objection has already been well and unanswerably refuted.

But the gentleman from Fairhaven (Mr. Morton,) objected, that in consequence of certain members of this Convention being also members of the House of Representatives, the result would be that the towns represented by them must be disfranchised, either in the one body or in the other, if we do not adjourn over to a future time. Then, Sir, if that legislature should continue in session until 1854, when would this Convention ever meet? But is it true that we should disfranchise these towns? Not at all, it seems to me. The election of members of the House of Representatives was last November. That question was then finally settled. This applies to most of the members here; but not to the member from Wilbraham, (Mr. Hallett,) I admit, for at that time he was a citizen of Boston. The constituencies elected their representatives in November, and the representatives accepted the position to which they were elected. On the 7th of March last came another election. Does any gentleman believe that his constituents did not know that he was a member of the House of Representatives, when they elected him a member of this Convention? Most assuredly they knew it; and if, by reason of the two bodies meeting at the same time, these members are unable to meet both requisitions, the fault is not theirs but that of their constituents. I would by no means disfranchise towns; and I do not think that this would be a disfranchisement. How is it with regard to towns which are unable to make an election within the term of eight days. Are they disfranchised? Not at all, Sir? And permit me here to say, that there are not only gentlemen in this Convention connected with the legislative branch, but gentlemen connected with the judicial department of the government. If you once admit the principle that because a gentleman is connected with another branch of the government so that it is inconvenient for him to remain here, the Convention should adjourn, and when shall we meet. Here is a gentleman connected with the judicial branch of the government. He has duties belonging to his official station to discharge elsewhere. Is this Convention therefore to adjourn? And so I might trace it to the executive branch of the government. Members may be connected with that branch, and be required to perform certain duties compelling their absence. If you once admit the principle upon which the gentleman based his argument, how are we to get through with our duties?

When this discussion commenced, I confess that I cared very little in reference to it; and I had some doubts as to the proper course to be pursued. But after hearing the arguments, I am perfectly satisfied that we ought to continue our session and proceed as fast as we can. If we find the hall designated by the Committee an inconvenient place, we can adjourn. If we go there, it is not necessary that we should remain during the existence of the Convention. My own view of the matter is that we would better try the experi

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PLACE OF MEETING. — LORD — GRAY.

tion to this subject, arraying the two bodies in antagonism to each other. If that same line of remark had been adopted in the House of Representatives last week, when the question of the meeting of both bodies at the same time was under consideration, what would have been the result here on yesterday? You would have found the House of Representatives here in session, demanding their rights and their hall; and where would you have met? Ever since the people have determined that this Convention should be held, although at that time it was not with my concurrence, I determined, having some duties to discharge in relation to it, that so far as lay in my power, I would make this Convention concurrent with the existing government, and not antagonistic to it. I would have the existing government recognize the Convention, and not place themselves in opposition to it. And does this body of men suppose that they can place themselves in antagonism to the existing government of the Commonwealth, and treat the existing government as a fit subject for their ridicule, or for them to speak of reproachfully or contumeliously? If they propose to put themselves in that position, they are raising the precise issue which every good citizen of the Commonwealth has endeavored from the beginning to avoid-a conflict between the Constitutional Convention and the present government of the Commonwealth. As the gentleman from Fairhaven has suggested, the House of Representatives and the Senate have not yet completed the business which the people of the Commonwealth desired them to complete. In that state of things what do they do? Say that the people should not have sent men here at a time when they knew from the experience of the last few years that the legislature must of necessity be in session? By no means. On the contrary they endeavor, by all the means in their power, to act towards this Convention with the utmost comity and good will. Having a constitutional provision that they shall not adjourn over more than two days, they manage, by a very early adjournment on Wednesday morning, and a late meeting on Saturday afternoon, to give this Convention four working days. They did it at the request of certain prominent gentlemen of this Convention, who said that in their opinion the Convention would merely desire to organize and adjourn for a fortnight, by the end of which time the legislature would be able to adjourn. During the entire discussion upon that subject, not one word of disrespect was uttered in regard to the Convention. On the other hand the Convention was treated as being composed of the representatives of the people, assembling to perform a great work which the people had determined must be performed. If such conduct upon their part is to be met by reproach; if the Convention are to put themselves in antagonism with the House, the feelings of these men must change. When they shall reassemble, and find this body in an attitude of antagonism, unless human nature changes, they will conduct themselves according to your treatment of them.

It has been suggested that for twenty or thirty years, five hundred or six hundred men met annually in this chamber. I have rarely seen that man who found the atmosphere so bad one year that he would not come here the next, if his constituents did not chance to prefer to send somebody else. [Laughter.] The Convention of

{May 5th.

1820, was a body quite as numerous as we are, it not more so. They found no dithculty. Why should we complain of the seats in the galleries? Sir, some of the most eminent and distinguished members of that Convention occupied seats in the gallery; and they were as faithful and effective as others. But whether this hall is the proper place or not, I will not presume to decide. What I desire to protest against, is undertaking to put the Convention in antagonism to the existing government of the Commonwealth. I think that if it should cost $5,000 to carry on this Convention harmoniously and to prevent a conflict, that sum would not be badly expended.

There are two considerations upon which I think the Convention should reflect. They must secure the confidence of the entire people of the Commonwealth; and they want also the confidence of the existing government of the Commonwealth. And if, by the mere power of numbers, they decide that certain towns shall not be represented, either in one branch or the other, that course would probably generate a feeling in the community which would be anything but confidence. If those gentlemen elected by the same constituencies to serve them here, are rendered unable to attend by our meeting at a time when they have duties to perform in the legislature, knowing, as we do, that the first fortnight after the parcelling out of the work of the committees may quite as well be spent by an adjournment as in meeting, no time will be saved by that If this Convention keeps in view these two objects, securing the confidence both of the people and of the existing government, their work will go forth, when it is finished, with greater assurances of success, than if this confidence is not secured. Whatever hall we occupy, Sir, I hope that we may adjourn for a fortnight in the same spirit of comity which the existing government has manifested towards the Convention. And whether we adjourn or not, I trust we shall not indulge in such remarks as those to which I have listened this morning in relation to the legislative branch of the government.

course.

Mr. GRAY, of Boston. I am quite agreed with my friend who has just taken his seat (Mr. Lord, of Salem) as to the impropriety of any remarks disparaging to the House of Representatives, or any other body of fellow servants of the people with ourselves. But I do not take the same view of the debate of this morning that he has done. I am not sure that I have heard anything disparaging to that body. I certainly have heard nothing said by any gentleman which I consider as intended to disparage the existing legislature. I agree with him entirely that we should endeavor to avoid all antagonism with the legislature, and with a view to do so I am in favor of the Report of the Committee. The very best way to avoid the possibility of such an event is to take ourselves out of the way of the legislature.

And I would also submit to gentlemen of this Convention whether it is quite proper, I will not say to dance attendance upon the legislature, for that might be construed as a little disparaging to them, but is it quite proper that we should be dependant upon the legislature under any circumstances in which they might see fit to exercise their pleasure? Yet we shall be so if we continue to meet in this place, unless we contemplate an adjournment of at least a fortnight. And is it quite proper, upon the other hand, that

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the legislature, of whom we are bound to speak with respect, should be governed by any other considerations than a conscientious desire to discharge their duty to their constituents, according to the best of their ability and understanding, and the tenure of their oaths? Is it quite proper, is it quite respectful, is it quite courteous, that they should be made to feel that we are standing at the door, ready to rush in and occupy their seats all the time that they can spare every day?—which would be the case should we decide to divide each day with them--and thus place them under the necessity of adjourning as early as possible? I should suppose that this view of the case would settle the question at once.

The gentleman from Salem (Mr Lord) says, that the convention of 1820 was quite as large as this. That is correct. He says that they met here and were sufficiently well accommodated. Well, Sir, I was here at that time-not as a member of that body, but as a witness and spectator of its proceedings. This hall was differently arranged from what it now is. There was a gallery extending around three sides of it. The Speaker's chair was situated upon the southern side of this hall, opposite to where your seat now is, Mr. President. I am not certain whether or not there was a gallery over the Speaker's chair then, but there was one extending along the northern side of the hall. That was the manner in which it was arranged then. Now I am surprised that a gentleman who has had the experience in these matters that the gentleman from Salem has had, should say that a body as large as this can meet here at this time, and be as conveniently accommodated as the convention of 1820 was. How have I managed here? Why, Sir, in every instance that I have been able to get a seat, it has been by the courtesy of friends who have relinquished their seats for my accommodation. I have been able to hear but little of the debate this morning upon the change in the place of meeting of this Convention.

There has been another question brought into this debate-the question of adjourning for a limited time. Now, whether we adjourn or not, I am in favor of a change in the place of meeting of this Convention. I think, however, we should best answer the expectation of the people, and the true object of the calling of this convention by going on with our session, unless some good cause can be assigned for an adjournment. Suppose we decide to adjourn for a fortnight. Why, Sir, in one-fourth of that time some of our committees will be ready to report, and the rest of the time will be lost. We are told, too, that there are twenty-four members of this body who are also members of the legislature. So there are. Some of these gentlemen represent this city. I have a friend in the Senate who represents in part the eity of Boston. I can say what I would do if I were in his place, and what I think he would do-and he is one of our most able representatives here should he find it impossible to discharge faithfully his duty in both bodies. He would resign his seat either in the Senate or in this body. Really I cannot see how any gentleman, if he takes the view of this matter that I do, can press the argument for a moment that we must adjourn this body for a time in order to accommodate those members of this Convention who are also members of the legislature. It is nothing more nor less than asking-for the purpose of

PLACE OF MEETING.-MORTON.

accommodating those twenty-four gentlemen, the most, if not all of whom, I know and highly respect, and who can resign their seats either in this Convention or in the legislature should they find themselves unable to discharge their duty in both bodies-it is asking, for the convenience of those twenty-four gentlemen, or if you please, the convenience of the twenty-four towns they represent, that this whole Convention should be put to an inconvenience on their account. For one I can only say that I do not feel myself called upon to yield to such a request.

My friend near me has spoken of the aromatic odors that would be inhaled by us should we go to the hall of the Lowell Institute. I do not know how that may be; all I have to say is that I have never been annoyed by anything in this place very aromatic in its nature, and do not expect to be. [Laughter.]

I beg pardon of the Convention for having continued my remarks so much longer than I intended to have done when I arose.

Mr. MORTON, of Taunton. This debate has come rather unexpectedly upon me, and I confess that when it first arose, I thought it was rather unnecessarily protracted. But I have at last been so far successful in conquering my prejudices, as to conclude to participate in the protraction of it myself.

The direct question before the Convention-the adoption of the Report-seems to me to be one which can lead to no very practical result. It is merely a question as to the estimation which we shall place upon the advice of the very respectable Committee who made that Report. The Report itself contains no proposition decisive of the matter. Should we adopt the Report, the question of the place of meeting will be just as open then as it is now. Should we reject it, the same question may be still presented to us for consideration. Yet, as a question of practical importance and utility has been connected, in debate, at least, with the adoption of the Report, I do not know as the time thus spent has been uselessly consumed.

I suppose, that whether the Report be adopted or not, the proposition indicated by the gentleman from Wilbraham (Mr. Hallett) will be considered as the proper one to be first offered and acted upon. I would say to that gentleman, if I may be allowed to make a suggestion in this stage of our proceedings, that I hope he will make a slight alteration in his proposition before he offers it. That alteration, I think, will recommend itself to the favor of many honorable gentlemen here, and as far as my experience goes, it is the usual course pursued in such cases as the present. It is to leave the time blank over which we will adjourn, to be filled by a vote of the Convention after it shall have decided in favor of an adjourn

ment.

Now to come to one of the principal questions discussed in this debate-the question of adjourn

ment.

I am in favor of an adjournment for two or even three weeks; I am in favor of it because, in my opinion, such a course will prove to be a saving of the time of the Convention, and thus a saving of expense, and will also result in wiser action being taken by this Convention. This question has, however, been so thoroughly discussed that I will not go into any extended argument upon it. I will barely remark, that, from the experience we have had of the previous con

[May 5th.

vention, and the legislature of this Commonwealth, and the legislatures of other States, we cannot fail to draw the inference that the first three or four weeks of the session will be spent with but little conclusive action. The reason assigned for that, and the correct one, I presume, is that time is necessary in order to allow the committees to act upon the several subjects referred to them. In the present case, we have before us, not ordinary subjects of legislation, many of which can be disposed of in an hour or in a day. But we have to act upon the great principles which lie at the foundation of our government. And if gentlemen have come here with their minds open to conviction, with a view to compare the respective opinions of the different sections of the Commonwealth in order to ascertain the voice of the whole Commonwealth and the wishes of the whole people, not only great deliberation, but a great deal of consultation, will be required. This has been already most happily provided for by an order offered, and I believe adopted, for the appointment of various committees. It has been said that if we adjourn for three weeks and then meet here again, we will be in a state of quite as much progress, and perhaps a little better prepared to act promptly and understandingly in consequence of the assistance we shall receive from the labor of the various committees in the meantime, than we should be were we to remain here in session all the time. I must confess that the subject presents itself in that light to my mind. I have no doubt that if we adjourn for three weeks, when we come here at the end of that time we shall be better prepared to proceed than if we were to remain here in session all the time.

The principal question then seems to be, shall we go home for a time and attend to our own business at our own expense, or shall we remain here at the expense of the Commonwealth? However, I will not go into the question of the saving of expense, because I am inclined to think that that is not a popular question at this time. In former times the subject of economy used to be a popular theme of discussion. But if we look at the course of our public officers throughout the country, and observe the manner in which their vast expenditures are received by the people, we must be convinced that this is not the time to discuss that matter. (Laughter.]

I contend, however, that if we adjourn we may reasonably expect a wiser result of the labors of this Convention. The several committees which have been ordered, and which I have no doubt will be judiciously selected, will, by comparing notes and deliberating upon the various subjects referred to them, mature a plan which will be handsomely, beautifully and correctly jointed and dove-tailed together, so as to leave much less for the Convention to do when it shall meet here again, than would be the case should we decide to remain here and get at the object of our meeting by piece-meal, a report to-day upon one branch of it, another to-morrow upon another branch, and so on through. I do not intend, however, to go into that branch of the subject at length.

There are one or two other points which have presented themselves to my mind, and which I think are or should be decisive of this question. One of them is the fact that twenty-four members of this Convention are also members of the legis

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PLACE OF MEETING. — BARTLETT — HALLETT — NAYSON — THOMPSON — BRIGGS,

lature. Now, either the constituents that they represent in the legislature, or those they represent in this body, must be deprived of their services, or what is still more probable, both bodies will lose their services, for being conscientious men, in their endeavor to perform double duty they will fail to perform either satisfactorily. It has been suggested that their constituents knew at the time they elected these gentlemen to represent them in this Convention, that they were then members of the legislature, and therefore they have voluntarily ran the risk of losing their services in one of those bodies. Now, I cannot see the force of that argument. A former legislature of this Commonwealth provided that we should attend here at this place at a certain time, which was as much as to say to the people that the succeeding legislature would probably have accomplished their business at the time specified. The people therefore had a right to rest themselves upon that presumption, and they did act upon it. And it would be unjust to endeavor now to teach the people of this Commonwealth, what I hope they never will be taught, viz.: to entertain disrespect for the laws of the State and the action of its legislature.

Now the simple question is, shall we, or shall we not, disfranchise those towns? It may be said that such will not be the result. It may not be the direct result of the action proposed here, but it will be so indirectly. Now, I am a plainspoken, straight-forward man, and I have never been willing to do indirectly what I would not do directly.

I have very little to say in regard to the capacity and convenience of the hall in which we are now assembled. I can only say that within my experience there seems to be a great change of opinion on the subject. Whether that is owing to the greater delicacy of our constitutions, to the greater degree of ill-health now prevalent, I cannot say. But there has been a time when a much larger number of persons than now compose this Convention was accommodated here, and no complaint was then made. Worthy gentlemen have said that they have known five hundred in some cases, and in others over six hundred persons conveniently accommodated here. I have myself seen more than seven hundred persons assembled in this hall in the summer months, with the thermometer ranging above eighty degrees, and heard no complaint. No one then proposed that they should hunt up a larger room, but everything went off here pleasantly.

One other suggestion, and I have done. The Chairman of the Committee who made this Report, (Mr. Walker, of North Brookfield,) ridicules the idea thrown out here about the genius of this place. Now that idea may be correct or it may

not.

But that gentleman is a very poor judge of what is inspiration to simple minded men, as he himself is so happily constituted as always to feel the inspiration of genius. [Laughter.] But I doubt much whether his inspiration is shown in his argument more than in the Report he has presented to us.

There is one other thing that has weighed a little upon my mind. I know very well that this body desires to go on with its duties with all propriety, without the slightest interference or clashing with any other body, without having any other body attempt to influence its action. There is, however, a subject which must come before this Con

vention, which the people demand to have acted upon by this body, and which if it be acted upon it is to be presumed must have some influence upon the action of the legislature of this Commonwealth. What that subject is, I do not propose to name, as I do not intend to discuss it

now.

With these views, I have come to the conclusion that whatever action we may take in regard to a place of meeting, it will be proper for us to adjourn over for two or three weeks, and therefore it is proper for those of us who entertain these views to vote against this Report, though whether it be agreed to or not will make no difference in regard to the question of adjournment.

The question being then taken upon agreeing to the Report of the Committee, upon a division it was adopted, as follows—ayes, 202; noes, 125. Mr. BARTLETT, of Boston, submitted the following:

Ordered, That a committee of five be appointed to make arrangements to procure the temporary use of the hall of the Lowell Institute pursuant to the Report of the Committee appointed to procure a hall and committee rooms for the use of this Convention.

Mr. HALLETT, of Wilbraham, submitted the following, by way of amendment; strike out all after the word "ordered," and insert

"That a committee of five be appointed to confer with any committee the House of Representatives may appoint upon an arrangement for alternate sessions on the same or succeeding days of the House and this Convention, and report the result of such conference."

The PRESIDENT decided that the amendment was not pertinent to the subject of the original order, and therefore could not be entertained.

Mr. HALLETT then asked that the order lie over until to-morrow.

Mr. BARTLETT, of Boston. If it is of any importance to settle this question at all, I wish to have it settled at once. I concurred in the Report and the object for which it was drawn, in the expectation and hope that there would be no adjournment of the Convention. I now move that the rules be suspended in order to enable us to determine upon the order I have submitted at the present time.

Mr. NAYSON, of Amesbury. I hope that the rules will not be suspended. I trust this order will not now be acted upon, as it relates merely to the hall of the Lowell Institute. I do not think that hall, or Marlborough Chapel, is a fit place for holding the sessions of this Convention. If the majority of this body shall decide to adjourn to some other place, I wish to have some greater latitude given to their choice, than seems to be contained in this order. The Lowell Institute is, in my opinion, the last place to which we should adjourn. I have had occasion within the present week to go there to attend a lecture, and I must say that it is far from being as good as the hall in which we are now assembled, either as regards ventilation or any other matter of conveni

ence.

I desire to have some other hall examined, in order that the interests of the Convention may be promoted as much as possible.

Mr. BARTLETT. The Committee have endeavored to do their duty faithfully, although perhaps somewhat unsuccessful in their efforts. The order was drawn as it is simply for the pur

[May 6th.

pose of making a temporary arrangement, according to the best judgment of the Committee; if it is thought expedient, it can be changed.

Mr. HALLETT. I hope the rules will not be suspended, and if the Convention so decide, then the suggestion may be in order which I desire to make, for the appointment of a committee to confer with a committee to be appointed by the House of Representatives, and report to us tomorrow on this matter. It is perfectly obvious that we shall make no arrangement to get the other hall this week. By the appointment of a committee, as I propose, we can ascertain whether it can be convenient for the House and this Convention to meet here alternately, and at what hours of the day. If we are determined to go on with the Convention, we can, by meeting here a part of the day, and leaving the rest for the legis lature, do all the business which will come before

us.

The question being taken on suspending the rules, on a division there were-ayes, 132; noes, 138: so the rules were not suspended, and the order lies over until to-morrow.

Mr. HALLETT submitted the following order, which lies over one day under the rules:

Ordered, That a committee of five be appointed to confer with any committee the House of Representatives may appoint, upon an arrangement for alternate sessions on the same or succeeding days of the House and this Convention, and report the result of such conference.

Election of Messenger.

Mr. THOMPSON, of Charlestown, submitted the following order, which lies over until tomorrow, under the rules:

Ordered, That the election of Messenger to this Convention be specially assigned to to-morrow at the hour of eleven, and that he have power to appoint assistants.

John Sanborn.

Mr. THOMPSON presented the memorial of John Sanborn, of Charlestown, claiming a seat in this Convention; which was received and referred to the Committee on Credentials.

Hour of Meeting.

Mr. EARLE, of Worcester, moved that when the Convention adjourns to-day, it be to meet tomorrow morning at ten o'clock; which was agreed to.

On motion, at fifteen minutes past two, P. M., the Convention adjourned.

FRIDAY, May 6, 1853. The Convention met and was opened at 10 o'clock, A. M., pursuant to adjournment of yesterday.

Prayer by the Rev. WARREN BURTON, of Boston.

The journal of yesterday was read and approved.

Preliminary Business.

On motion of Mr. BRIGGS, of Pittsfield :—

Ordered, That the Secretary of the Convention be directed to prefix to the journal of the first day's proceedings, a copy of the Act authorizing the calling of this Convention.

The PRESIDENT read a communication from

Friday,]

MODE OF PROCEEDING.MOREY-NAYSON-HALL-WILSON,

the President of the Boston Athenæum, informing the President that the trustees requested him to tender to the members of the Convention the use of their library and reading room.

Mr. MOREY, of Boston, stated that there was a law library in the court-house, in Court Street, containing a large collection of books, embracing the laws and constitutions of the several States of the Union and of the United States, and also the constitutions of some foreign countries. He had been directed by the trustees of that library to extend an invitation to the members of the Convention to visit that library whenever they found it convenient. He stated that they would find the librarian, Mr. Boyle, ready to accommodate them at all times. The library is open from 8 o'clock in the morning to 6 o'clock in the evening.

On motion of Mr. ALLEN, of Worcester, the thanks of the Convention were voted to the Boston Athenæum and the Law Library Association, for their kind invitation to the members of the Convention.

The PRESIDENT read a communication from the Rev. Mr. Burton, accepting the office of Chaplain to the Convention, to which he was elected on yesterday.

Memorials.

Mr. NAYSON, of Amesbury, presented the memorials of Edwin Lawrence, and Nehemiah Flanders, of Newburyport, claiming that at the election for choice of delegates to the Convention, held in that city on the 7th of March last, they had received a majority of all the votes cast in conformity with the requirements of the Act of 1852, which memorials were received and referred to the Committee on Elections.

Rules and By-Laws.

Mr. HALL, of Haverhill, from the Committee upon that subject, reported a code of Rules and By-Laws for the government of the Convention.

Mr. HOOPER, of Fall River, moved that the Report be laid upon the table and printed.

Mr. BRIGGS, of Pittsfield, called for the reading of the Report, and no objection being made, it was accordingly read.

Mr. HALL, of Haverhill. If the gentleman from Fall River will withdraw his motion, I will make a statement to the Convention in relation to the Report.

Mr. HOOPER withdrew the motion.

Mr. HALL. Perhaps the statement which I can make will supersede the necessity of printing the Report. Forty-four of these rules and orders are substantially the rules and orders of the House of Representatives, with the insertion of the word "Convention" instead of "House," the word "President" instead of " Speaker," and other verbal changes of that sort. Seven of the rules are precisely those of the Convention of 1820, and there are two new ones. One of these is the 19th rule, which provides that a seat shall be assigned to each member in such manner as the Convention may determine; and the other is the 46th, with regard to the quorum necessary for the transaction of business. The only amendment in the entire code is in the 24th rule, upon the subject of reconsideration. The rule now in force in the House of Representatives on that subject is somewhat ambiguous, as is known to those members of this body who are members of the House, where it caused considerable debate

during the last session. It is believed that the amendment which the Committee have made in that rule will make it perfectly plain and simple; and in order that the precise change may be understood, I will state it. As it stands in the rules of the House it is as follows: "When a vote has passed, it shall be in order for any member of the majority to move for a reconsideration thereof on the same or the succeeding day;" so far we have made no change" and when a motion for reconsideration is decided, that vote shall not be reconsidered," we have struck that last clause out and inserted in lieu thereof, "a motion to reconsider being rejected shall not be renewed, nor shall any subject be a second time reconsidered." With this statement I hope that my friend from Fall River will not ask to have the Report lie over but will let it be adopted now.

Mr. HOOPER. There is no occasion for adopting these rules immediately, and I will therefore renew the motion that the Report be laid upon the table and printed. The expense will be but trifling, and I should like to examine the rules before they are adopted.

The question being then taken, the motion was agreed to.

Report of a Committee.

Mr. MORTON, of Taunton, from the Committee on Credentials, to whom were referred various memorials on the subject of contested elections, asked to be discharged from the further consideration of the subject and papers, and that they be referred to the Committee on Elections; which was agreed to.

Order Submitted.

Mr. BATES, of Plymouth, submitted the following order for consideration, which lies over until to-morrow under the rule:

Ordered, That a precept be issued by the President of this Convention, to the town of Berlin, for the election of a delegate from that town, the Hon. Henry Wilson, who was elected for that place, having declined.

Printing the Rules and Orders.

Mr. BARTLETT, of Boston. I wish to submit a motion that the Act under which this Convention has assembled be prefixed to the Rules and Orders which have been ordered to be printed. Every body can see that we shall occasionally want to refer to the act under which we are convened; and it seems to me that this will be the most convenient form in which we can have it.

Mr. HOOPER. If the gentleman from Boston will withdraw his motion, I will move a reconsideration of the vote by which the Report containing the rules and orders was ordered to be printed, for the purpose of accepting the Report; and I will then move that the rules and orders be printed, together with a list of the members and their places of residence, a list of the committees of this body, and the act under which we have assembled.

Mr. BARTLETT withdrew his motion and Mr. HOOPER then moved a reconsideration.

Mr. BRADFORD, of Essex. I suppose it is obvious to every person that there are many differences between these rules and those of the House of Representatives, and I think they should be well considered by the Convention

[May 6th.

before they are adopted. I hope, therefore, that they will be printed so that we can examine them before a vote is taken on accepting the Report of the Committee.

Mr. HALL, of Haverhill. I will repeat what I said just now, that these are the rules of the House of Representatives, altered only to such an extent as to conform to the wants of the Convention, with a few rules added, which were adopted by the Convention of 1820. As I have already stated, the only material change which has been made is in the rule on the subject of reconsideration.

Mr. HOOPER. The object of the motion which I made was that the rules may be furnished to us in a printed form, for our own examination and not as the permanent rules of the Convention. And at the same time I thought it desirable that we should have lists of the members and of committees. These rules may be set up and struck off for our use now, and when they are adopted, the type would not have to be reset, so that the expense would be trifling. But as the rules have already been ordered to be printed, and the other can be printed hereafter, I will withdraw the motion for reconsideration.

Mode of Proceeding.

Mr. WILSON, of Natick. Mr. President, I am directed, by the unanimous vote of the Committee appointed to report the best mode of proceeding in revising the Constitution, to report a series of fifteen resolutions, which embrace all portions of the Constitution. We propose that that there shall be thirteen committees composed of thirteen members each, and two committees (on the Senate and the House of Representatives) composed of twenty-one members each, making in the whole, 211 members on these committees. It is due to the gentlemen who have been associated with me to say that they were unanimously of opinion that in making this arrangement they ought to express no opinion whatever as to the propriety of making any changes or amendments in the Constitution. They simply report the best mode, in their judgment, of considering the subject. A variety of matters have been brought to their notice as amendments, but they thought it best not to interfere with them, and recommend that the Convention raise committees to consider the several subjects which are contained in the Constitution. I make this statement so that the Convention may understand the position of members of the committee. I move that the report and resolutions be read, and laid upon the table and printed.

Mr. ASPINWALL, of Brookline. If the gentleman will withdraw that motion for a moment, I would like to add a word. Mr. WILSON withdrew it.

Mr. ASPINWALL. I merely wish to say in addition, what the gentleman from Natick undoubtedly omitted through inadvertance, that it was also stated in committee, as a matter which should be mentioned to the body, that none of the members of the committee considered themselves, in making this Report, as expressing any opinion as to the constitutionality of this Convention. I desire this statement to go to the public together with the statement of the gentleman from Natick,

Mr. WILSON. The gentleman from Brookline is correct in his statement, and I should have mentioned it had it not escaped my memory. I

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