Sidebilder
PDF
ePub

Friday,]

PLACE OF MEETING. ASPINWALL-BARTLETT - EDWARDS — KEYES.

now renew the motion that the Report and Resolutions may be read, laid on the table, and printed. The motion was agreed to, and the Resolutions were read, as follows:

1. Resolved, That so much of the Constitution as is contained in the Preamble and Declaration of Rights, be referred to a committee of thirteen, to take into consideration the expediency of making any, and if any, what alterations or amendments, and to report thereon.

2. Resolved, That so much of the Constitution as relates to the Frame of Government and the General Court in section 1 of chapter 1, and also so much as relates to Settling Elections by the Legislature, in article 7 of section 3, chapter 2, be referred to a committee of thirteen, to take into consideration the expediency of making any, and if any, what alterations or amendments, and to report thereon,

3. Resolved, That so much of the Constitution as relates to the Senate, be referred to a committee of twenty-one, to take into consideration the expediency of making any, and if any, what alterations or amendments, and to report thereon.

4. Resolved, That so much of the Constitution as relates to the House of Representatives, be referred to a committee of twenty-one, to take into consideration the expediency of making any, and if any, what alterations or amendments, and to report thereon.

5. Resolved, That so much of the Constitution as relates to the Governor, in section 1 of chapter 2, except so much as relates to the Militia, in section 10 of said chapter, and section 9 of said chapter, concerning appointments, be referred to a committee of thirteen, to take into consideration the expediency of making any, and if any, what alterations or amendments, and to report thereon.

6. Resolved, That so much of the Constitution as relates to the Militia, in section 1 of chapter 2, article 10, be referred to a committee of thirteen, to take into consideration the expediency of making any, and if any, what alterations or amendments, and to report thereon.

7. Resolved, That so much of the Constitution as relates to the Lieutenant-Governor, be referred to a committee of thirteen, to take into consideration the expediency of making any, and if any, what alterations or amendments, and to report thereon.

8. Resolved, That so much of the Constitution as relates to the Council, in sections 2, 3 and 4 of chapter 2, except article 7 of section 3, be referred to a committee of thirteen, to take into consideration the expediency of making any, and if any, what alterations or amendments, and to report thereon.

9.

Resolved, That so much of the Constitution as relates to the Secretary and Treasurer, in section 4 of chapter 2, and the Attorney-General, Solicitor-General, Sheriffs, Coroners, Registers of Probate and Notaries Public, being article 9 of section 1, chapter 2, be referred to a committee of thirteen, to take into consideration the expediency of making any, and if any, what alterations or amendments, and to report thereon.

10. Resolved, That so much of the Constitution as relates to the Judiciary Power, chapter 3, and the two last clauses of article 13, section 1, chapter 2, relating to Salaries, be referred to a committee of thirteen, to take into consideration the expediency of making any, and if any, what alterations or amendments, and to report thereon.

11. Resolved, That so much of the Constitution as relates to the University at Cambridge, being chapter 5, section 2, be referred to a committee of thirteen, to take into consideration the exepediency of making any, and if any, what alterations or amendments, and to report thereon.

12. Resolved, That so much of the Constitution as relates to the Encouragement of Literature, being chapter 5, section 2, be referred to a committee of thirteen, to take into consideration the expediency of making any, and if any, what alterations or amendments, and to report thereon.

13. Resolved, That so much of the Constitution as relates to Oaths and Subscriptions, Incompatibility of, and Exclusion from Office, Pecuniary Qualifications, Commissions, Writs, Confirmation of Laws, Habeas Corpus, and the Enacting Style, including the eight first articles in chapter 6, be referred to a committee of thirteen, to take into consideration the expediency of making any, and if any, what alterations or amendments, and to report thereon.

14.

Resolved, That so much of the Constitution as relates to the Qualifications of Voters, being article 9 of chapter 6, be referred to a committee of thirteen, to take into consideration the expediency of making any, and if any, what alterations or amendments, and to report thereon.

15. Resolved, That so much of the Constitution as relates to Amendments of the Constitution and Enrolment, being articles 10 and 11 of chapter 6, be referred to a committee of thirteen, to take into consideration the expediency of making any, and if any, what alterations or amendments, and to report thereon.

Mr. ASPINWALL subsequently said: I desire to make an explanation of the remarks I made just now, because I find that a false impression exists. Some of my friends near me say that it was understood that I expressed an opinion against the constitutionality of this Convention. I thought that I had carefully guarded my language. I do not by any means entertain the opinion that the Convention is unconstitutional, and I should be sorry to be supposed to entertain that opinion.

Committee Appointed.

The PRESIDENT appointed as the Committee on the order offered by Mr. Gourgas, of Concord, to inquire as to the proper measures to be taken to preserve and pepetuate the journal of the Convention, Messrs. Gourgas, Upham, of Salem, Frothingham, of Charlestown, Dana, of Manchester, and Eames, of Washington.

Place of Meeting.

The Convention then proceeded to the consideration of the following order, submitted upon yesterday by Mr. Bartlett, of Boston:

Ordered, That a committee of five be appointed to make arrangements to procure the temporary use of the hall of the Lowell Institute, pursuant to the recommendation of the Report of the Committee appointed to procure a hall and rooms for the use of this Convention.

Mr. BARTLETT. Much was said yesterday of the superiority of the proposed hall to that in which we are now assembled. In that, Sir, I did not concur. I believe this hall to be one of the best, in point of comfort and of ventilation to be found in the Commonwealth. I advocate the resolution laid upon your table, simply upon the ground of its necessity, looking at it merely in a temporary view. What is this Convention to do? We shall hardly have taken the initiative of our future proceedings before we shall be compelled to yield the present hall to another body. In that view, it seems to me that the order may well be adopted. Behind that, however, lay another consideration which was the main basis of my action. If this hall is adopted as a place of permanent sitting, from eighty to one hundred of our members must be placed-I will not say exiled-in the north-western part of the House, no longer to be seen or heard during this Convention. If gentlemen are content to take their

[May 6th.

lot in the partition of seats, of course they will vote to remain in this hall. But if they desire a more comfortable hall, they may find it in the Lowell Institute. Or, if that shall fail to answer our purposes, there are others which can be procured in the place of it. I hope, therefore, to meet the immediate exigency rather than an understanding that this is to be the permanent place of meeting for the Convention, we shall agree to the order.

Mr. EDWARDS, of Southampton. I attended closely to the debate on yesterday. I have now come to the conclusion, with many other members, that we ought not to occupy the hall of the Lowell Institute; that it is not a proper place for the Convention to act upon the subjects which will come before them. One objection urged upon yesterday was that twentyfour members would be deprived of their rights. I think that in these long days the Convention might occupy a portion of every day so that those members may be in a situation to discharge their duties both in the Convention and in the House of Representatives. Twenty-four years ago, I

was a member of this legislature for a series of years. No inconvenience then arose from the members present, although there were about six hundred, during the month of June. It has been stated that this is the best place, and the best air in the city of Boston. The only objection that I can conceive to our occupying this hall is that it may retard the proceedings of the House of Representatives. I have come to the conclusion that it is best for us, if we can make a suitable arrangement with the House of Representatives, to occupy this hall, Those of us who have been members of the House of Representatives, know that for the first two or three weeks, in a body like this, very little time will be occupied in the House. It will be occupied by the committees. And as there seems to be a determination not to adjourn, I think it will be a saving of expense, in every point of view, to make an arrangement to occupy this hall a portion of the day. The House of Representatives might meet at nine o'clock, and continue until two; and then this Convention might commence their session at three, and sit an hour; or the day might be divided in any other manner. For these reasons I hope we shall make some arrangement of this kind. Mr. KEYES, of Abington. It has seemed to me that we have commenced this business wrong end first. I suppose the decision upon the question of adjournment would have some effect upon the expediency of moving to some other place. I had supposed that even if the legislature had finished their business before the meeting of the Convention, it would be a question for consideration whether we should adjourn for a certain period or not. I supposed that the fact that the legislature would remain in session for two or three weeks longer, would settle that question. I supposed the arguments of the gentleman from Wilbraham, (Mr. Hallett,) and others, in respect to the rights of members of the legislature, not only in that body, but also in this, were correct. if it is to be decided that we are not to adjourn, I hold that we must get another hall. It seems to me extremely absurd for two bodies like these and their committees, alternately to occupy this hall. It strikes me that it is not a very pleasant picture to present to the people of Massachusetts, to have here in Boston at one time eight hundred

But

Friday,]

PLACE OF MEETING. WILSON - DURGIN-UPTON - GARDNER-HURLBURT.

men, with what they used to call their "huge paws" in the treasury.

Some of the committees, it is said, might report immediately, and the Convention might go to debating. But what is to become of the other committees. If the Convention continues in session, I suppose they are to retire and leave the rest of us to wrangle, free to get up quarrels and difficulties and disputes, because we have nothing useful to do. And when the committees come back into the Convention, we shall have to go over all those topics again; and the result will be what the result of the Hartford Convention was said to be a great pamphlet, and nothing else. It has been said that the mileage of the members, if we were to adjourn, would amount to $5,000. If we adjourn at all, I presume that it will not be for a less period than three weeks; which would be a saving of five times $5,000. When we should meet, the committees having been instructed to report immediately upon the reassembling of the Convention, there would be nothing to interfere with our holding sessions morning and afternoon. The Convention of 1780, met at eight o'clock in the morning, and sat afternoons until late in the evening, Saturday afternoons and all. If we can imitate them in that particular, it would shorten the session materially.

From the arguments of some gentlemen upon yesterday, it would seem as if they regarded the legislature and the Convention as two different bodies, the one having precedence, and more powers, and more rights, than the other. They both proceeded, Sir, from the same source; and they are entitled, in my opinion, to precisely the same respect. I confess that if I was a member of the legislature, and was ordered to meet in a Convention, held at the same time, when I did come into it I would use up all the time that I could in protesting against their being held at the same time. If these two Conventions are to be held at the same time, I wish to relieve myself from all the responsibility of it. I do not speak for the purpose of controlling or influencing the opinions of others. It seems to me that we ought to decide in the first place whether the Convention will adjourn or not; because, if we are not to adjourn, I take it that we must have some other place to meet in temporarily; as it seems to be almost an absurdity, and at any rate, a useless expenditure of the public money, for the two bodies to hold alternate sessions in this hall.

Mr. WILSON. I supposed that the Convention had substantially settled the question that we were not to adjourn, but were to proceed with the business. I am willing to adopt the suggestion of gentlemen to occupy this hall a portion of the day, taking either the forenoon or the afternoon for our session, if we can submit to all the inconveniencies of the house, so that we may proceed to our business, or I am willing to go to the Lowell Institute or to any other place in the city of Boston, or out of the city of Boston, provided we only proceed to the business for which we have assembled. I disagree altogether with my friend, the delegate from Abington, (Mr. Keyes,) in this matter. I find that the Convention of 1820, assembled on the 15th of November. On the 18th of November the committees were appointed; and on the 22d of November Mr. Quincy, of Boston, made a report in relation to Harvard College; and within seven days after

the appointment of the committees four important committees had made their reports. Let us have a sitting either in the forenoon or afternoon, here or elsewhere, appoint our committees, instruct our committees, and meet every day, excepting Saturday, until they make their final report. Ten or eleven of the committees provided for in the resolutions upon your table can report within four or five days, at the farthest, and some of them within two days.

I take it that we are not to tear this old Constitution of ours all to pieces. Certain amendments are to be proposed. I think that amendments will be made which will improve the Constitution. I have no doubt, no fears, no distrust of this Convention in any shape whatever. I see no danger in this matter. I have never seen any danger in the formation of governments, whether of the nation or of states, or that the people would fail to take care of their state governments or their national government. We shall have no difficulty in this matter if we keep right on. I will go just where members want me to go. I will take any seat here or elsewhere. All that I care about and struggle for is, that the Convention shall appoint its committees, giving one distinct and separate subject to each committee, and then we can proceed at once. I trust that the Convention will agree to go on, and I am content either to remain here or to go elsewhere.

Mr. DURGIN, of Wilmington. There seem to be in this discussion two very distinct subjects. One is an adjournment of the Convention for two or three weeks, and the other is a simple adjournment to some other place than this. In regard to the hall of the Lowell Institute I visited it yesterday with several other gentlemen. I would not rely wholly upon my own judgment, but so far as I could judge of it, that hall is entirely unfit for such an assembly as this. In the first place, we read in the Good Book that at a certain time "darkness prevailed over the land." If you want to see that a second time you have only to go into that hall. I trust that our deeds will not be such that we shall desire darkness. For one I want light, and the more of it the better. So far as regards its size it is the only redeeming quality it has. The fixtures and appendages are nothing at all compared with the conveniences of this house. The convenience of having a large hall will by no means compensate for the inconveniences that we shall be subjected to in other respects. If there is to be an adjournment to that hall I hope it will be a temporary adjournment, until the close of the legislature; and that we shall then come back to this house. Some gentlemen have called the western gallery, “Oregon,” and I suppose the other may be called "California"; but I will volunteer to go into either gallery. I will not complain, whine, nor cry. If I have anything to say, and cannot make the Convention hear me, I will borrow a position in front of the President's Chair with the indulgence of the Convention. I do think, Sir, that if every member had seen the Lowell Institute Hall they would be decidedly opposed to our removing to that place.

Mr. UPTON, of Boston. I proposed upon yesterday to say a word upon this question-but I was unsuccessful in obtaining the floor. We were then acting upon the Report of our Committee, recommending that we should go into another hall. It seems to me, as has been re

[May 6th.

marked by other gentlemen, that before we determine to remove to another hall, this Convention would better determine whether it will adjourn for two or three weeks or continue in session. I do not regard expenditure very much, Sir, but still, if the Convention propose to adjourn for two or three weeks, I see no earthly reason for engaging the Lowell Institute for the accommodation of the Convention. The first question to be determined seems to me to be whether the Convention will adjourn. I think, although not belonging to the dominant party in this Convention, that the gentleman from Wilbraham (Mr. Hallett) has proposed a very good plan; that the Convention should adjourn for several weeks to give the committees time to prepare their reports, instructing them to report at the close of the adjournment, and at once to present the several subjects which you propose to act upon. The Convention having the whole before them would be better able to proceed with the business of amending the Constitution than if they were now to continue in session. That is not, however, the question in my mind. If the Convention proposes to adjourn for two or three weeks, I certainly should not vote to go to any other hall than this. A gentleman who has preceded me has made a very just remark in relation to this place. He says that these are our walls. I feel proud of the old State of Massachusetts. I see no reason, unless the Convention is to continue in session, for going to any other building than this. This is our own hearth-stone. We have here all the necessary implements--all the books and documents necessary to guide the proceedings of the Convention. If the Convention is to adjourn we should meet here at the close of our adjournment. I hope that the sense of the Convention may be taken upon the question of adjournment for two or three weeks, so that we may act understandingly in relation to this matter.

Mr. GARDNER, of Seekonk. I listened with a great deal of interest to the discussion of this question upon yesterday. I was desirous then of making the motion which I now rise to make, in order to bring before the Convention the question which should first be decided, as has been very properly stated by the gentleman who has just resumed his seat. Being of opinion that it would be for the best interests of the Commonwealth that this Convention should adjourn, concurring with the remarks of the gentlemen from Wilbraham (Mr. Hallett) and Fairhaven (Mr. Morton), believing that it would be wrong to disfranchise those towns which have elected to this body members of the House of Representatives, I move that the question now before the Convention be laid upon the table, in order that I may make the motion that when we adjourn to-morrow it be to meet on the 24th instant, or to such day as the Convention may select, hoping that the friends of the proposition to go to another hall will not object to a decision at once upon the question of adjourning for a short period of time. The motion was agreed to.

Adjournment for two weeks.

Mr. GARDNER. For the purpose of learning the views of members of the Convention, I now move that when this Convention adjourns to-morrow, it be to meet on the 24th instant in this hall.

Mr. HURLBURT, of Sudbury. I hope, Mr.

Friday,]

ADJOURNMENT FOR TWO WEEKS.-SUMNER — GARDNER,

President, that this motion will prevail. I believe that we shall better forward the business of the Convention by adjourning for a time than by proceeding now. If we shall refuse to adjourn, I should prefer to alternate with the House of Representatives rather than to leave this hall. Objections have been made to the galleries. One gentleman spoke of his ill health, and said that it would be detrimental to the health of members, for a body composed of so many gentlemen to occupy this hall. I hope there is no one present whose health is more feeble and delicate than my own. I believe that it was expected by our constituents, when they appointed us to represent them in this body, that we should sit in this house and nowhere else. We find the legislature in session occupying the hall, with only a temporary vacation; and I think it would be well to adjourn, and to give the legislature an opportunity to get through with their business. I am confidently of the opinion that we shall forward our business more by such an adjournment than by continuing in session at this time. If it should be my lot to draw a seat in those galleries, though the Convention should be in session during the warm days of June, I will submit to it most cheerully. I should prefer another portion of the hall; but I hold myself ready to occupy whatever scat may fall to my lot; and I hope other gentlemen will hold themselves ready to do the

same.

I think that the matter of expense ought to be taken into consideration in deciding this question. The Commonwealth will already be saddled with an enormous debt the present year. Let us not, at the commencement of this sitting, show ourselves ready or willing even unnecessarily to increase that debt. We cannot adjourn to any other place with any other result. We can go home, those of us who may not be required for the committees, and return to this place better fitted to commence anew, and go forward with our business. Knowing that the legislature had not adjourned, I came here with the expectation that we should adjourn. I did not dream that we were to remove to another hall. I hope that gentlemen will consider well before they consent to remove to any other place, in this or in any other city. We can go home; and when we return our committees will be prepared to report, and we can proceed at once with our business.

Mr. SUMNER of Otis. I am not desirous of prolonging the debate upon this question, for although in the present instance it is presented as a regular subject for discussion, yet this question of adjournment was very fully and elaborately discussed on yesterday, and, as I supposed, and as many others supposed, judging from the remarks they have made this morning, it was settled then that we would not adjourn.

I hope I shall not be charged with discourtesy, if I remark, en passant, that upon the incidental questions which necessarily arise at the commencement of all sessions of deliberative bodies, there is perhaps an unavoidable tendency to debate, as if many gentlemen who are unacquainted with proceedings of this character, supposed that it was necessary for them to leap upon every question that is presented, and prolong debate upon it. To such gentlemen it may be well to remark in the outset, and I hope they will receive it kindly from one who has had some little experience in legislative matters, that if they will

but wait for the reports of committees in order to obtain topics of debate, they may find themselves provided with an infinite variety of subjects for discussion.

Now, in regard to this question of adjournment, I have to say, that I, for one, am decidedly opposed to it. Personally, as far as my own private business is concerned, it would benefit me exeeedingly should the motion to adjourn prevail; for I, like doubtless a great many others, stand in point of convenience and interest, quite as badly off as do the twenty-four gentlemen of this Convention who are members of the legislature. And there are unquestionably a very great number of the gentlemen of this Convention, who will ere long be under the necessity of retiring from this place for a time for the purpose of attending to other duties which may devolve upon them. Still I do not conceive that this furnishes a sufficient reason for the course proposed. That the legislature is in session, and so far has some effect upon the holding of this Convention, is a misfortune. Yet this misfortune, and all these obstacles should not be considered as of such magnitude as to prevent such action as this body was sent here to take.

Should this proposition for adjournment prevail, it is proposed that the interval before another meeting should be occupied by our committees, consisting of some two hundred gentlemen of this Convention, as indicated by the report upon committees presented this morning. The remaining members of the Convention are dismissed to their homes. Now, if I have been able to catch-I will not say from the genius of the place, for that is getting to be a worn-out phrase—but if I can catch the sentiment of the greater portion of this Convention, they are not only decidedly opposed to an adjournment, but an adjournment as proposed would tend to affect their good humor, that is, if they were obliged to go home, they would not do so in the best of humor. Now I consider it important that such a course should be adopted in regard to this and all other subjects, as to keep this entire convention in a state of perfect good temper, and also in a state of perfect harmony with the legislature while that body is in session. But if you send one hundred men home in a state of ill temper in relation to this subject, that may affect their constituencies, as has been suggested here this morning.

Now I think that in every point of view, looking at the business before us, and all the circumstances by which it is surrounded, the best course is for us to proceed with our labors. I think, with the gentleman from Natick, (Mr. Wilson,) that in at least four or five days, reports from some of our committees may be submitted to the Convention for its consideration. But suppose it were otherwise; suppose it were true, as suggested by the gentleman from Wilbraham, (Mr. Hallett,) that at least a fortnight must be taken before the committees can mature their reports, and submit them to this Convention, it would still be of advantage to have the Convention continue its session during that time. You propose to have a dozen or more committees. Do you propose to limit them in regard to their inquiries, to leave the business confided to them entirely in their hands? Would it not greatly facilitate the business of the Convention, and the purposes for which it has been called together, to have it meet here every day in order that suggestions might

[May 6th.

go to the committees in relation to the subjects before them? Would there not be great benefits and advantages resulting from such a course? I think such a course would tend to produce a greater community of sentiment in relation to the great object for which we were called together, and the variety of topics embraced therein, and consequently our labors would be likely to be more beneficial to the Commonwealth. On the other hand, I greatly fear that the temporary dissolution, so to speak, of this Convention, the sending home one-half of its members would be detrimental to the purposes for which we have been convened. Looking at the question as I thus do, even though I was personally in favor of an adjournment, yet entertaining the opinion I have expressed in relation to the feeling of the great portion of the members of this body, I am not in favor of an adjournment. Even were it otherwise, I would not feel willing to press this measure contrary to the wishes of a minority.

I rose merely for the purpose of submitting these few remarks. As I stated at the outset, I have no desire to prolong this discussion; and I have now only to express an earnest and sincere wish that we shall not adjourn, but shall go on at once with the business before us.

Mr. GARDNER, of Seekonk. I do not rise for the purpose of making any extended remarks, because I think this question has already been pretty thoroughly discussed, but to suggest an amendment which I will offer, if it be deemed necessary, to the motion I have submitted, in order that, if the Convention shall decide in favor of an adjournment, the President may have more time in which to appoint the committees. The amendment is to change the word “Saturday,” in my motion to the word "Monday" or "Tuesday." The time between now and to-morrow may be too limited for that purpose.

After listening to the debate here, I am still more convinced than I was before I submitted my motion, that it will be better for the convenience of the Convention and the interests of the Commonwealth, that we should adjourn for a time in order to accomplish precisely what the gentleman who has just addressed the Convention (Mr. Sumner, of Otis,) desires to accomplish, that is, to have the feelings of the members of the legislature and the members of this Convention of the most amicable nature possible, in order that we might act independently of that body, and the members here who are also members of the legislature not be deprived of a participation in the doings of this Convention. It seems to me that that object, which I contemplate accomplishing by the motion I have submitted, would be contravened by the action proposed by the gentleman who has just taken his scat, that is for the Convention to continue its sessions. From what little experience I have had in legislative matters, I have always found that in the early part of the sessions of legislative and deliberative bodies, the committees occupy most of the time, because they must mature their reports before those bodies can have subjects for consideration. It seems to me that when this Convention is about to act upon the fundamental law of this Commonwealth, when its committees are to go out and make up their reports for the consideration of the Convention upon subjects of a vital importance to the people of this Commonwealth, those committees should have ample time for

Friday,]

ADJOURNMENT FOR TWO WEEKS. — HOOPER-BUTLER - PHELPS-KEYES.

deliberation. I cannot persuade myself into the belief that our committees will be able to come in here and report instanter after their appointment, and make such reports as this Convention and the people of this Commonwealth will be ready and willing to adopt. I am desirous, for one, that whatever alterations may be made in the Constitution of this Commonwealth, they may be such as will meet the approbation of the people of this State; that the innovations upon the present Constitution which we may make, may be improvements. I desire, therefore, that whatever we may do, should be done with the greatest care and deliberation.

With these views, and coinciding with the views expressed by the gentleman from Wilbraham, (Mr. Hallett,) and also by the gentleman from Fairhaven, (Mr. Morton,) and other gentlemen who have spoken upon this subject, it seems to me that the wisest and most efficient course for us to pursue, is to adjourn over for a time, and allow the legislature opportunity to complete their labors, which they will undoubtedly do by the 24th inst. The Convention can then reassemble, and the committees, having matured their reports, we can proceed at once and expeditiously with our labors. It was with this view that I made the motion to adjourn over. I am not, however, very tenacious about it. If this Convention shall see proper to adopt a different view, I shall cheerfully acquiesce in their decision. I must repeat, that I think the interests of the Commonwealth will be best promoted by an adjournment.

Mr. HOOPER, of Fall River. Do I understand the question to be upon the motion to adjourn from Monday next?

The PRESIDENT. The gentleman from Seekonk, (Mr. Gardner,) merely suggested that amendment to his motion, but did not offer it.

Mr. HOOPER. I expressed myself yesterday in favor of an adjournment, and my opinion in that respect has not been changed by what has transpired since. I believe it would be for the interests both of the Convention and of the people of this Commonwealth, for us to adjourn. I am willing, however, to compromise the matter in this way, rather than to adjourn to any other hall than this. Let us, if we can, make an arrangement with the House of Representatives, so that we can have a short session in this hall daily, meeting say at nine or half past nine in the morning, and adjourning after a session of two hours, and then the House of Representatives can have the hall for the remainder of the day. We can accomplish more in that way than we would by meeting in any other place, and holding unlimited sessions, as our committees can then have the greater portion of the day to themselves. I have no doubt that should we have unlimited sessions in this or any other hall in this city, there will be found to be subjects enough to engross our time to such an extent as to keep our committees from meeting in their rooms and acting upon the subjects referred to them. I think it would be better therefore to restrict the Convention to short sessions. And if gentlemen will accept the suggestion I have made so as to avoid holding our sessions elsewhere than in this hall, I will rest satisfied.

Mr. BUTLER, of Lowell. I do not wish to discuss this question, already sufficiently discussed, but merely to say that so far as I have examined it, I am against an adjournment. The

people sent us here to do certain things, and not to adjourn. They have sent us here to propose certain reforms to the Constitution, and not to return home until we had accomplished that object. I for one, am in favor of doing that for which we were sent here.

As to the place of meeting, gentlemen seem to think that there is no place on earth but Boston, where we can hold our sessions. Now this is a pretty large Commonwealth, and if we cannot find a convenient hall here in Boston, for our accommodation, I can assure gentlemen that they can find enough of them elsewhere in the State. I can mention a dozen halls elsewhere that can be obtained. But whether that be so or not, I concur with what has been said here, that if we agree to adjourn we shall not want to find any other place for meeting. That is a question to be decided hereafter.

I trust that we shall not adjourn on account of the reason stated here, that our committees will be so interested in our debates as to be unable to attend to their business. I think this body is large enough to spare a sufficient number of gentlemen to constitute our committees, without leaving ourselves without a quorum to attend to other business. I trust, too, that they will not permit private feelings and a desire to hear debates, interfere with their duties. Whatever we do, must be done speedily, and we should sacrifice something to that. I trust we shall not adjourn. Those who are members of the legislature constitute but a very inconsiderable portion of this Convention-I speak merely in reference to numbers, and I think we should not adjourn on that account. Neither do I subscribe to the doctrine that our committees should sit here alone for a time, and the Convention as a body be brought together here some two or three weeks hence, merely to register the decrees of the committees. I think these subjects should also be considered in the Convention, and I hope we shall continue to meet here, and compare judgments, opinions and wishes, with each other, and in that way our labors will be rendered more satisfactory to the people who sent us here.

Mr. PHELPS, of Monroe. I wish to vote understandingly upon this question. There seems to be as much conflict in the opinions expressed here, as I ever heard in testimony given in any court of justice. It is said upon the one hand that the Lowell Institute is the most healthy, beautiful and convenient place to be found in the city. On the other hand it is said that darkness, death, disease, and everything of that nature, reigns there. I know nothing about it. It may be the best, or it may be the worst place in the city, for aught I know about it. The hall in which we are now assembled is said by some to be the best place to be found. Others say it is the worst place, as many of the members of this body must be seated in one or the other of the galleries, where they can neither see nor hear, be seen or be heard. Others say that over six hundred persons have been convened here without inconvenience. Now if it be true that this is a good place for us to assemble in, and we can proceed with our business better here than elsewhere, I am in favor of remaining here, and will be willing, when we come to draw our seats, to run my chance of getting one in the galleries, or even of being hung upon one of those imaginary hooks upon which members are to be hung for

[May 6th.

convenience and ornament, of which an honorable gentleman spoke so eloquently yesterday.

We were sent here for a particular purpose, to revise and amend the constitution of this State. That is a grave and important subject. We are the people's servants, and we should be honest and faithful to their interests and wishes. I am not for carrying our business through with railroad speed, still I would attach a locomotive to our train and get up all the steam we can without danger of running off the track or bursting the boilers and endangering the lives of the people. I wish to do that which is best, but what that is I have not yet found out after listening to all the speeches that have been made upon this subject. I am still in the dark in reference to this matter.

I should like to know something about the matter of expense. I know a gentleman who addressed the Convention on yesterday said that although there had been a time when people looked at the question of economy, yet that time had now gone by. I think we should again revive that feeling; it would suit the people to have it revived; indeed that was one thing for which we were sent here. Now which of the various propositions made here will be the least expensive? Can any one tell us something near what that will be? Can any one tell whether it would cost more to adjourn to some other place or go home for two or three weeks? Some say that the legislature will close its labors almost immediately, others that it will take weeks for them to do so. I cannot tell what to do. I wish the people to be satisfied with our labors, to call us good and faithful servants. Let us take this matter into careful consideration. If it will be more economical for us to adjourn and go home for two or three weeks, although I was rather opposed to that course yesterday, I will agree to it now. If it will take some two or three weeks for our committees to mature the questions referred to them, let us adjourn. If, on the other hand, they can mature them in a few days, and it will be more economical to adjourn to some other place, let us do that. Or if it would be still better to hold alternate sessions in this hall with the House of Representatives, let us do that. At any rate I would like to know something a little more definite about this matter.

Mr. KEYES, of Abington. I rise to make a suggestion, not a speech. It will occur to the minds of members that before an adjournment for two or three weeks takes place, the preliminary business of the Convention should all be arranged; and it is doubtful whether that can be done in the course of our sittings this afternoon and to-morrow morning. As some embarrassment may arise in the minds of members on that account, I would move to amend the order by striking out the word "to-morrow," and inserting Monday," so that when the Convention adjourns on Monday next, it be to meet on the 24th inst. Mr. GARDNER, of Seekonk. I accept that modification.

66

Mr. WALKER. I will ask the member from Abington where the Convention are to meet on Monday next.

Mr. KEYES. Inasmuch as the idea of alternate sessions with the House of Representatives has been advanced, I presume that we could meet here for one day without much inconvenience to that body.

Friday,]

ADJOURNMENT FOR TWO WEEKS, — HALLETT — KEYES-NAYSON — KNOWLTON.

The question being then taken upon the motion as modified, upon a division, there were ayes, 123; noes, 225: so it was not agreed to.

Mr. HALLETT. Mr. President, I now move to take from the table the order which I offered yesterday, for the appointment of a committee to confer with a committee to be appointed by the House of Representatives in reference to holding alternate sessions.

The motion was agreed to, and the order was taken up for consideration.

Mr. BATES, of Plymouth. I will inquire when this committee is to meet the committee of the House. That body will not be in session until to-morrow afternoon, and of course the committee could not report to us until Monday.

Mr. WILSON. I have no doubt that the House would give us an opportunity to meet here on Monday forenoon, when the Committee could report to us whether the House were willing to agree to the proposition of alternate sessions. If they will not agree to it, we can then adjourn to another hall, for I suppose it is evident that we are to go on at any rate.

Mr. KEYES. I am of the opinion, Mr. President, that the occupation of this hall alternately with the House would be a source of great expense to the people of the Commonwealth. I understand, Sir, that it has been officially reported to this body that the House of Representatives had done with their committee rooms; that is an intimation that they are prepared to sit both morning and afternoon, and by double sessions cach day they can get through with their business in about two weeks. We are now proposing an arrangement which, if carried into effect, must necessarily lengthen their session two weeks, at an expense of not less than fifteen thousand dollars. Why, Sir, we have ascertained that we can obtain a room elsewhere for our temporary business at twenty-two dollars per day. The House wish to spend a reasonable and proper time in the discussion of questions before them; and if they have two sessions a day it is evident that they can get through in just half of the time which they would occupy if they have only one session a day. It costs not less than a thousand dollars a day for their attendance here; and we now propose to take half of each day, at an expense of five hundred dollars per day, when we can get a hall which will answer our purpose for twenty-two dollars per day.

Mr. NAYSON, of Amesbury. As one of the twenty-four members of the House to whom allusion has been made, and upon consultation with other gentlemen in the same position with myself, I desire to say that I think the proposition now submitted by the gentleman from Wilbraham will be most favorably received by the House. I have no doubt that an arrangement can be made with that body as to our meetings here after the present weck, and one which will be entirely satisfactory. With regard to the remark of the gentleman from Abington who has just taken his seat, that this arrangement if adopted will double the length of the session of the legislature, I must say that I think he is mistaken in that supposition, and that the business now to come before the House will not be retarded by the plan which has been suggested.

Mr. HALLETT. I wish to make one single suggestion, which is all that I intend to say on this matter. The main object which I have in

view is to continue and conclude our deliberations in this hall; all other matters are of minor importance. Now, I think the sense of this Convention has been distinctly expressed that they will not adjourn over. I think the indication is equally strong that they will not go to the Lowell Institute. Then let us at least try the experiment whether we cannot remain here and go on with the legislature. I desire to have this matter determined, even if we finally leave this hall. And I certainly wish to have it understood that this Convention comes here in no spirit of opposition or antagonism to the legislature, and that we do not regard the legislature as having any antagonism to us. It is merely a matter of convenience and accommodation between two large bodies, both having equal rights with regard to the hall which we occupy. This matter can be determined by a committee of conference such as I propose. We can meet here on Monday, and learn what the viwes of the House are; and if it shall turn out that the two bodies cannot sit here without inconvenience to each other, we can then make some different arrangement. It seems to me that our true policy is to pursue that course, and confer with the House before we decide upon leaving this hall.

Mr. WILSON. I am anxious for a continuation of the sessions of the Convention, and as the gentleman from Wilbraham, and some other gentlemen are very desirous that we should remain here in order that we may have the inspiration of the hall, I hope that the order will be adopted.

The question being then taken, the order was agreed to; and the President appointed the following gentlemen to serve on the Committee of Conference:- Messrs. Hallett, of Wilbraham, Briggs, of Pittsfield, Sumner, of Marshfield, Sumner, of Otis, and Gray, of Boston.

Resolutions Adopted.

Mr. KNOWLTON, of Worcester. Mr. President, I move a reconsideration of the vote by which the Report of the Committee on the mode of Procedure was laid on the table and ordered to be printed. I do this in order to facilitate the business of the Convention. The Report contains fifteen propositions, which are plain and simple in themselves; if the motion for reconsideration is agreed to at this time, the Report may be now taken up and considered, and if adopted, the President may proceed forthwith to the appointment of the committees. Unless this is done, the committees cannot be appointed until to-morrow, and a day or more will be lost. I therefore hope that the vote will be reconsidered, and that the resolutions will be adopted at this time.

The motion was agreed to, and the vote was accordingly reconsidered. The question then recurred on the adoption of the Report of the Committee, and the Resolutions introduced by them, and they were adopted.

Vacancy from Berlin.

Mr. THOMAS, of Weymouth. I move, as an act of justice to the town of Berlin, that the rules be suspended, and that the order offered by the gentleman from Plymouth, (Mr. Bates,) be considered at this time.

The motion was agreed to, and the order was then taken up for consideration. It was read, as follows:

[May 6th.

Ordered, That a precept be issued by the President of this Convention to the town of Berlin, for the election of a delegate from that town-the Hon. Henry Wilson, who was elected from that place, having declined.

Mr. SIMMONS, of Hanover. I rise, Mr. President, to inquire whether this order is in the proper form. Has this Convention power to issue a precept for a new election? According to my recollection, this is not according to the usage of former Conventions. It is customary to send a request to the towns not represented in the body, to meet and choose their delegates. I submit, therefore, whether the form of the order should not be changed, so as to give an invitation to the towns to choose; and when the delegates come here, the Convention can decide whether they are entitled to seats; and if so, they will admit them. It seems to me that the Convention has no power to issue precepts for new elections.

The question being then taken, the order was agreed to.

Election of Messenger.

The Convention then proceeded to consider the order submitted yesterday by Mr. Thompson, of Charlestown, that to-day, at eleven o'clock, be assigned for the election of a Messenger to the Convention, who shall have power to appoint assistants.

The order was modified, on motion by Mr. Frothingham, so as to assign the hour of eleven on Monday next, instead of to-day, for the election; and the question being then taken, the order was agreed to.

Debates of the Convention.

Mr. LADD, of Cambridge, submitted the following order, which was read:

Ordered, That the Report of the Debates of the Convention published by Messrs. White & Potter, be added to the list of weekly papers, to be furnished to members of the Convention.

The PRESIDENT. The Chair will suggest to the gentleman that that has already been done. Mr. LADD. I understand that there is a little uncertainty or ambiguity in relation to the order which was adopted yesterday on this subject, and this is introduced in order to obviate that difficulty. As it now stands, it is uncertain whether gentlemen can select this Report of Debates as six papers per week, or as one. I propose by this order, that it shall count only as a weekly paper. The order was considered, by unanimous consent, and agreed to.

Vacancy from Berlin.

Mr. BARTLETT, of Boston. Mr. President, I move a reconsideration of the vote by which the Convention ordered a precept to be issued for the election of a delegate to fill the vacancy from the town of Berlin. I desire the Convention to understand that I fully concur in the object which is sought to be attained, but I have extreme doubts whether this body is entitled, by law, to issue a precept to any town in this Commonwealth. I desire to have the vote reconsidered, in order that the matter may be examined, for it may be setting a bad precedent to adopt a measure of this kind.

Mr. DAVIS, of Worcester. The gentleman who makes the motion under consideration, sup

« ForrigeFortsett »