tlemen may laugh at the idea of its being a compromise. In reply to that, I will say that I think it meets every argument I have heard made on the floor of this house, against the district system as based upon equality, fully. Now the proposition, which I will read, and which I intend to offer when the proper time arrives, is as follows:

Resolved, That it is expedient so to amend the Constitution as that the House of Representatives shall consist of members, to be elected from single districts, as nearly equal as may be conveniently made, based upon legal voters.

Mr. CHAPIN, of Springfield. I do not rise, Mr. Chairman, after the able manner in which this subject has been presented to the Committee, with any expectation that any argument from me will influence the vote of a single individual of this Committee; but simply to state the reasons which will influence me in giving my vote upon the proposition now before the Committee, so that I may not be misunderstood, and that I may not be supposed, in voting against the proposition, to be in favor of districting the Commonwealth. As to the propositions brought in by the Committee on this subject, I consider one of them based upon a principle, and the other devoid of principle; and were I obliged to accept one or the other, I would to-day, take the town representation, although I increased the ratio ten thousand for an additional representative in any town in the Commonwealth. But we are not driven to that necessity. I find that the representation in Massachusetts from its earliest history has been apportioned, not upon numbers, but upon towns and numbers collectively; and I think there is the principle upon which we have got to act; and that principle I recognize in the proposition of the gentleman from Lowell. I do not, however, feel willing to go to that extent to which he goes in the matter, and I will simply give to the Committee my ideas upon this subject, which I had prepared several days ago, to show, that in my opinion, we should adopt, or we should perfect, I may better say, the system under which we are now acting.

I do not propose to offer any amendment, Mr. Chairman, for I perceive by the apparent feeling of this Committee, that it would be of no service; but I propose simply to state the proposition which I have prepared. Perhaps other gentlemen may make some use of it; or, perhaps, at a future day, I may offer it to the Committee as an amendment.

In the first place, I may be allowed to say that I take the present system of representation as the basis, and that having been settled as a matter of compromise in 1840, and

[June 25th.

having grown till the present time, when to get a representative it is necessary to take a population of 1,560. I propose to start with that number, the number which the gentleman from Millbury, (Mr. Waters,) suggested. I take for the second representative, 3,120, making 4,680 entitle a town to two representatives, thus far I follow the present rule. I then take for the third, the number proprosed by the majority of the Committee, to wit, 5,000, making 9,680. To retain that number would make the House of Representatives larger than it appears to me desirable that it should be. I therefore increase the next to 6,000, making 15,680 necessary for four representatives. I again, for the next representative, increase the ratio to 7,000, making 22,680, and I make 7,000 the mean increasing ratio which shall entitle a town or city to another representative. That will make a House of Representatives of 328.

By this plan, there will be one hundred and thirty-eight towns which will average seventythree and seven-tenths of a representative; one hundred and forty-eight towns with one each, making one hundred and forty-eight; twentythree with two each, making forty-six; four with three each, making twelve; five with four each, making twenty; and one entitled to six, and one to twenty-one.

If I do not suit the small towns, I am sure, I do not the cities, so that I shall at least have the credit of getting between the two. The manner in which I had proposed to perfect the arrangement, I will read also:

Every town containing 1,560 inhabitants will elect one representative; an increase of 3,120 will entitle the town to two representatives; 5,000 additional will entitle a town to three representatives; 6,000 additional will entitle a town or city, to four representatives, and 7,000 inhabitants shall be the mean increasing ratio which shall entitle a town or city to an additional representative. Every town containing less than 1,560 inhabitants, shall be entitled to elect a representative as many times within ten years as the number two hundred and eight is contained in the number of inhabitants in said town. Such towns may also elect one representative in the year in which the valuation of the estates within the Commonwealth shall be settled.

It will be seen that I propose that all the increase shall be taken from those towns having more than one representative, so that no town shall have any chance of ever being deprived of her representation. For the information of the Committee, I will read the number of representatives to which each county will be entitled.

Saturday,]

[June 25th.

Essex,

I do not offer this as an amendment, neither do I, at this time, say that I shall offer it at all. I simply suggest this plan and hope that gentlemen will take it into consideration, and, as far as they see fit, adopt its features. There is one thing in my plan which I think will commend itself to their favorable consideration; that is, that it leaves and secures the towns in the same position in which they are now. I like the republican simplicity and equality of the towns. I cannot, for a moment, consent to give a vote by which the State of Massachusetts is to cut up and divide, upon the same principle that the treasurer of a corporation divides the profits among the stockholders.

Mr. CROWELL, of Dennis, moved that the Committee rise, report progress, and ask leave to sit again.

The motion was agreed to, on a division; ayes, 106, noes, 62. The Committee accordingly rose, and the President having resumed the Chair of

THE CONVENTION,

The Chairman, Mr Wilson, of Natick, reported progress and asked that the Committee have leave to sit again.

Leave was granted.

Mr. BUTLER, of Lowell. I now move that the question upon the various propositions in relation to the basis of representation, which are yet undisposed of before the Committee, be taken on Tuesday next, at eleven o'clock, A. M.; and the reasons which induce me to make this motion are these. In the first place, it is quite evident that we must hasten on with our business as much as is consistent with our public duty. Another reason for assigning Tuesday for that purpose, is, that on Monday there is not usually so full an attendance as on other days; and I think it best that the question on these various propositions should be taken in a full Convention, so that after this long discussion we may have a

the time thus early in the week because I know that the necessities and duties of some gentlemen will require them to be absent in the latter part of the week; and I think that between this time and Tuesday at eleven o'clock, all the various propositions being now before us as I suppose, there will be sufficient time to consider the subject in all its bearings, and the Committee can then come to a definite conclusion. I trust that this motion will not be regarded by any gentleman as an endeavor to choke off discussion and debate, for I have no such intention. Some gentleman stated that we should come to the period of taking the question much sooner, if no time was previously fixed for that purpose; and upon that suggestion I withdrew the motion which I submitted on a former occasion. But, Mr. President, we must remember that we have first got to take the question upon all these propositions in Committee of the Whole, and we may then find ourselves without the possibility of agreement, and be obliged to reconstruct a scheme in a different manner. Now, Sir, time is rapidly flying. The waning days admonish us that we must advance with our business; and I trust, Sir, that no one will look upon this motion as an attempt to stifle discussion.

For one, Sir, confining myself to the single purpose of answering any objections which may be made to the proposition that I have laid before the Committee, and giving a single statement of the results of the system which I propose, in order to show its practical effects, I am content to leave the debate to others who may wish to take part in it. I will say no more in advocacy of my motion, but I hope it may meet the general concurrence of the Convention.

Mr. THOMPSON, of Charlestown. I should like to know whether the gentleman means to include in his motion merely the debate upon the various propositions now before the Convention in Committee, or whether he refers to those which may ultimately come before the Committee. Other very important propositions may come in, and if the gentleman's motion will apply to them, it appears to me that the time is altogether too limited. Upon looking over the Orders of the Day, I find that there are now some ten or fifteen propositions before the Committee which have not yet been touched, and there are yet more to come in. I have one which I intend to offer, and shall move to have it printed; and perhaps, if the Convention should have time to consider it, they might make up their minds that it was worthy to be adopted. It does seem to me, that the time which the gentleman has fixed for taking the

[June 25th.

Saturday,]

taken on Tuesday, if my motion shall prevail. In these ten hours we can have ten speeches of one hour each; and, if gentlemen will hold back their propositions until the last hour, they must not expect that they will be very well understood. If the gentleman from Charlestown, and any other gentlemen, have any propositions ready, they can submit them and have them printed by Monday, so that we can examine them and be ready to vote upon them by Tuesday morning. I do not see any difficulty in the way of this arrangement. Gentlemen seem to talk as if it will be impossible to come to an understanding of this subject, unless we sit here and discuss it till next August. In my judgment, Mr. President, if we are going to sit here until the tenth day of next August, we might as well go home now. What shall we accomplish by our labor? If we cannot get a Convention of four hundred men to agree upon a plan before that time, how can we expect that a million of inhabitants in this Commonwelth will agree upon it before the tenth day of November. It is time, Sir, that we were up and doing. That is what my constituents say to me when I go home. Now we shall have been a fortnight next Tuesday, discussing this question, and some of the newspapers have been making remarks about the length of time that it has occupied, and I cannot consent that the debate shall be prolonged beyond that time. I may be wrong, but I must follow the dictates of my own judgment, however it may clash with the judgment of others. I shall be taught, by the vote of the Convention, whether I am right or wrong. If they sustain me, I shall know that I am right; and if not, I shall be content to yield to their better judgment. The gentleman from Fall River, says that he could not figure out the results of my proposition, and that I told him that I had men to work on it. I will have those figures here on Monday, and will give him all day to read them. I have already stated the general result, that there will be three hundred and ninety-one representatives in the whole, and I have mentioned how it will affect the towns throughout the Commonwealth. I propose, hereafter, simply to give the figures, showing how it will affect the counties, for some gentlemen think themselves bound to take good care of their counties, and see that their county lines were suitably preserved. I have known gentlemen, before now, who could not find their county lines-but leaving that now, for that is not the question, I believe every member of the Convention will have time to look over the figures on Monday, at which time I shall have all the information here which I propose to lay before them.

Mr. WHEELER, of Lincoln. If the gentleman from Lowell will demonstrate, how we are to have ten hours for discussion between this and eleven o'clock on Tuesday, I will vote for his proposition.

Mr. WESTON, of Duxbury. I think, Mr. President, there is no gentleman upon this floor who is more desirous than I am, of bringing our labors to a close, and adjourning; but, Sir, I am opposed to the motion of the gentleman from Lowell. I have been in my scat every day, during the time that this Convention has sat, ready to act upon every subject as it comes up here, many times neglecting my own business for the purpose of shortening the session of this Convention. I have not asked for subjects to be laid upon the table from day to day, to lie there waiting till I got ready to act upon them. As I said before, I have been here constantly, ready to act upon every question that came up.

Now, Sir, I believe that the subject before us at this time, (the question of the basis of representation,) is one of the most important questions upon which this Convention will have to act; and I know of no other subject that will be likely to detain us here more than a week or ten days, except this one; and I therefore trust that gentlemen who are desirous of speaking upon it will have the amplest opportunity, and that the time will not be limited. As the gentleman from Charlestown has said, there are many questions here which we have not had an opportunity of taking into consideration, and I very much doubt even if we can get them printed by Monday, and say, after we have compared them, the one with the other, which presents the most fair and equitable and satisfactory system. For these reasons, I trust that the Convention will not agree to the motion, or that the gentleman from Lowell, (Mr. Butler,) will not persist in it.

Mr. BUTLER. I should like to accommodate the gentleman from Duxbury, but I feel it a duty incumbent upon me, to take the sense of the Convention now, upon this proposition.

The question was then taken, and, on a division, there were-ayes, 72; noes, 104. So the motion was rejected.

Motion to Reconsider a Vote.

Mr. STETSON, of Braintree. Yesterday morning I submitted a plan to the Convention, which was received and ordered to be printed. I understand by the newspapers that the Convention passed upon it directly after dinner yesterday, and rejected it. My purpose in speaking of this matter now is to move for a reconsideration of the vote by which the proposition was rejected.

Saturday,]

The PRESIDENT. It is not in order to move for a reconsideration of a vote in Convention which was passed in Committee of the Whole. The gentleman can attain his object when the Report is again under consideration in Committee of the Whole.

Basis of Representation-Motion to Recommit to a Special Committee.

Mr. BEACH, of Springfield. I hardly know whether it will be in order to make the motion which I was about to submit, but it seems to me that, considering all these various propositions on this representation question which are now before the Convention, and none of which seem very likely to meet with general approbation, and as it is obvious, notwithstanding all the discussion which has been had upon these various propositions that, unless some other plan be resorted to than that which we are now pursuing, there will be great difficulty in arriving at any conclusion which will be satisfactory both to the Convention and to the people of the Commonwealth, I would move that all the propositions that have been hitherto offered, together with the whole subject of the basis of representation, be referred to a special committee of one member from each county. I think that such a committee might perhaps, agree upon some plan that, if it did not meet the wishes of all, in every respect, might be acceptable in the main. It is evident that we shall have to have a compromise.

The PRESIDENT. The gentleman must first move that the Committee of the Whole be discharged from the further consideration of the subject.

Mr. BEACH. Then I move that the Committee of the Whole be so discharged.

Mr. BUTLER. I am sorry to be under the necessity of differing from my friend from Springfield in regard to this matter. I do not believe that any good object can be obtained by taking this subject from the Committee of the Whole and referring it to a special committee. I do not understand what proposition among all that have been offered is likely to be one that will be agreed upon by any special committee. If the gentleman from Springfield thinks he can find one that will bring together all parties, why does he not propose it, and let us see what it is? Why delay the action of the Convention on this question, as will certainly be done if this subject is referred to a new committee? Why should we loose all the advantage of all the debate we have had, and have to start again from the beginning; and why, above all, when we have hardly a quorum in the hall, should that motion be made at this time? I

[June 25th.

wish the gentleman had seen fit to propose his motion when we had a larger House, so that we might have got at the sense of the body on this subject. Gentlemen having perfectly satisfied themselves that they can come here next week and make their speeches, have gone home to attend to their business, and hence we are left with a remarkably thin house. I trust, therefore, that the gentleman from Springfield will not press his motion at this time, because I feel pretty well satisfied that it will not commend itself to the judgment of the Convention as a whole. This proposition I am sure will not facilitate the decision of the question; for all that will be done will be to organize the committee, and then sixteen gentlemen, myself among the number, will come in with sixteen propositions, and the discussion will all be gone over again, because every gentleman will feel bound to discuss his proposition.

Mr. HATHAWAY, of Freetown. I am not sure but that I would go with the gentleman from Springfield if there was a full Convention present, but upon looking round I see that there is but a small majority of the number necessary to do business here, and hence, under these circumstances, I am inclined to think that the proposition, at this immediate time, is hardly proper. I mean, it is perhaps premature in consequence of the thinness of the Convention. Under the present circumstances I am under the necessity of saying to the gentleman, that I shall be compelled to vote against his proposition for the reason I have assigned. But, although I may vote against the proposition now, because of the thinness of the House, I do say to the gentleman that I am aware that a majority of its members here represent not more than two-fifths of the Commonwealth, and when I yield to them in these matters I go with them; and therefore I do beg them not to press upon us hereafter in regard to the discussion of this subject. And I would further beg of them to remember that, although they may possess the most numerical strength here, yet any proposition they may force through this Convention is not to be eventually decided by the two-fifths of the people whom they represent, but by the three-fifths, who will have to vote it in or out; and therefore I think it would be quite as well for them to give us a hearing before they talk of fixing a time for the limitation of debate.