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of the States against the supposed usurpations of president Madison, and yet we are called upon to disregard the rights of Massachusetts, and yield up everything to the general government. I was about to say, that these men of 1814 were the only decent statesmen that we have ever had; and I will say, that their names are now held in veneration, and will be remembered long after many of our modern statesmen have passed into merited oblivion.

Now, Sir, in these arguments that have been presented here for the last hour or two, the question has hardly been touched. The vote on the amendment just taken, seems to say to the national government, "Massachusetts is nothing; she has no reserved rights; do with her as you please." The decision of the court of Massachusetts, to which the gentleman for Wilbraham has referred, in support of the action of the governor, was correct, and it was trampled upon by a slave-holding bench of judges in Washington. I do not know that I wish to apply the term "traitor to the democratic party to that judge who gave the decision, but perhaps it is none the less true that he was a traitor to the democratic party and also to New England, by that decision, and also for his decision in the celebrated Prigg case. But that matter has been argued so often, that I will not go into it at length on this occasion.

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Mr. HALLETT. If the gentleman will allow me, I will inform him that that judge was a democrat when appointed to office, and at that period in his history, although he afterwards changed his political opinions.

Mr. KEYES. He changed very rapidly after he went to Washington then. But I have only alluded to this case to show that a vote upon so important an amendment as that ought not to be taken by so few members of the Committee. To be sure, it is to be passed on again by the Convention; but when a matter is discussed here in Committee, after most of the gentlemen have gone home, it will become necessary to go over again, and such a course tends to lengthen the debate, after we go into Convention upon it. I believe it highly proper for the gentleman from Boston to offer the amendment which he did, conceiving, as he did, that the Committee would be willing to rise, and let the debate on the question be postponed until to-morrow.

Mr. WILSON. I will suggest that the best way to reach this matter is for the Committee to rise, and report that the resolve ought to pass as a whole; and at some future time in Convention, the gentleman can renew his amendment and we can have a vote upon it in a full house. I therefore move that the Committee rise, and report the

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resolve as amended, to the Convention, with a recommendation that it ought to pass.

Mr. MILLER, of Wareham. This whole subject of the seventh article was referred to a Committee and the report is made; but it seems to me that the Committee on the Militia have reported on some matters which were not referred to them; and the subject may come up again on another report, as I understand it.

Mr. OLIVER. By a resolution, the date of which I do not remember at this moment, the various Committees were authorized to act upon such subjects as might be germane to that which they had under consideration, if any were to be found in the Constitution. The Committee have therefore acted accordingly.

The question being taken upon the motion that the Committee rise, it was decided in the affirmative.

The President having resumed the Chair of
THE CONVENTION,

the Chairman, Mr. Boutwell, reported that the Committee had had the resolve in relation to the militia under consideration, and that they had instructed him to report the same back to the Convention, with certain amendments.

The question being upon agreeing to the amendments reported by the Committee of the Whole, it was taken and decided in the affirmative.

So the Report of the Committee was agreed to. The resolve as amended, was then ordered to a second reading.

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Mr. JENKS, of Boston, offered the following order, which, with the accompanying table, was referred to the Committee of the Whole, and ordered to be printed :—

Ordered, That the Committee on the House of Representatives consider the expediency of amending the Constitution, so as to provide that the several counties of the Commonwealth, as now organized, shall constitute Representative Districts, each of which shall be entitled to elect the number of Representatives hereinafter assigned, in such manner as may be prescribed by law: each Representative so elected to be an inhabitant of the District wherein he is chosen; and not more than three representatives to be inhabitants of any one town or city ward within any District.

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Reference to a Committee.

[June 21st.

On motion by Mr. BRINLEY, of Boston, the paper presented by him on the 13th instant, containing a plan of representation in the House of Representatives, was referred to the Committee of the Whole having that subject in charge.

The Council.

On motion by Mr. BOUTWELL, for Berlin, the resolves on the subject of the Council were taken from the table, and placed in the Orders of the Day.

Committee of Revision and Arrangement. On motion, by Mr. BOUTWELL, for Berlin, it was

Ordered, That a Committee of - members be appointed to reduce such amendments as have been, or may be, agreed upon, to the form in which it will be proper to submit the same to the people for ratification.

Hour of Meeting.

The order offered yesterday by Mr. EAMES, of Washington, and laid over under the rules, that on and after Wednesday next, the Convention meet at nine o'clock, A. M., until otherwise determined, was now taken up for consideration.

Mr. EAMES, of Washington. My object, Sir, in introducing that order, was, if possible, to expedite business. We have now been here about seven weeks; sufficient time has been allowed to the various Committees to make their reports to the Convention, and I supposed that as the weather was so warm and uncomfortable, the Convention would not be unwilling to meet at nine o'clock in the morning, as that was the coolest part of the day. I hope the order will be adopted.

Mr. DENTON, of Chelsea. I have received a notice from the messenger informing me that the Committee of which I am a member, will meet to-morrow morning, at nine o'clock. As the chairman of the Committee is not present to speak in relation to the business of that Committee, I will state that subjects are before it which cannot be acted upon until other questions, to which they have some relation, have been considered and decided by the Convention. If this order is adopted, it will, of course, be impossible for the members of the Committee to attend the Convention at that hour.

The question was taken on the adoption of the order, and it was, upon a division-ayes, 89; noes, 65-decided in the affirmative.

So the order was adopted.

Mr. WILSON, of Natick, moved that the de

Tuesday,]

HOOPER-WILSON - HALE - BRINLEY-THOMPSON.

bate in Committee of the Whole upon the Report | of the Committee on the subject of the House of Representatives, and the subjects connected therewith, cease at eleven o'clock on Friday morning

next.

I

Mr. HOOPER, of Fall River. It seems to me, that it is altogether premature to make a motion of that kind in the present stage of the discussion. For myself, I am opposed to it. think we had better wait a day or two and see what progress will be made, before we adopt any such order making an assignment so long in advance. It is possible we may finish the discussion upon this subject at an earlier day even than that proposed by the gentleman from Natick. I see no reason, therefore, for naming that day and hour as the time for closing the debate, and I hope the motion will not prevail.

Mr. WILSON. I suppose, Mr. President, there is but one opinion in the Convention in regard to the expediency of bringing this session to a close at the earliest possible day. Indeed, we have complaints from all quarters that so much time has been expended in discussion, and the universal desire is, I believe, that the Convention should adjourn as soon as it is possible for it to do so. We have now spent nearly five days in the consideration of the Report of the Committee upon this subject; and my motion will allow three days and a half more, making eight days and a half, which will be devoted to this subject in the Committee of the Whole, which I think is ample time; and after the Committee have reported the subject, it may then be discussed in Convention for any length of time that members may see fit. It seems to me, therefore, that if we intend to get through at an early day,—and I see no reason why we cannot finish our businesss in two weeks, we must commence voting in a very short time. As I said before, my proposition, besides allowing three days and a half for discussion in Committee, also gives an opportunity to members to debate the question in its two stages, in Convention. I see no reason why the debate upon the subject may not be closed at an early day, and I hope that a provision may be made to that effect.

Mr. HALE, of Bridgewater. If I understand the motion correctly, it is that the vote shall be taken upon the several propositions that are included in the subject of the Report of the Committee on the House of Representatives. If that is carried out it is my belief that we shall be compelled to vote upon all the amendments that may be offered, without discussion, and it seems to me, therefore, that we had better not fix any particular time for taking the question upon all the

[June 21st.

propositions that may be submitted. It is quite possible that a vote upon the pending question may be taken before the time named by the gentleman from Natick, (Mr. Wilson,) but I am opposed to any order which provides for the closing of debate upon the amendments which may be offered to the main question. I hope that the motion as it now stands will not prevail. Mr. BRINLEY, of Boston. I feel obliged, Sir, to oppose the proposition submitted by the gentleman from Natick. The discussion upon the subject, thus far, has, if I mistake not, been substantially confined to the Majority and Minority Reports of the Sub-Committee. Now, if I am correct, there are six other plans before the Committee of the Whole-I do not know but there may be more—which, if that motion prevails, we shall not have an opportunity to discuss, though they all more or less, deserve the attention and consideration of this body. I may be permitted to allude to a proposition which I had the honor to submit myself.

Nearly a week has elapsed since it was presented to this body and ordered to be printed, and until this morning, the printed document has not been returned to us, and, even now, not a sufficient number has been supplied by the printers to furnish every member with a copy. The subject is, in my opinion, the most important one that is to come before the Convention, and I think we ought not to restrict ourselves unnecessarily in regard to time in discussing it and the various propositions which have been submitted; but we should allow a sufficient time for every member who may desire to express his views upon the question, to do so, without being limited by any such provision as is proposed by the motion of the gentleman. These various propositions may be discussed in Committee of the Whole, perhaps, better than in Convention, and I trust we shall have ample time to consider them. I hope the motion will not be adopted.

Mr. THOMPSON, of Charlestown. I feel constrained also to oppose the order which has been proposed by the gentleman from Natick, for I think it would be improper to sacrifice the several propositions before the Committee, to any such restrictions as would be imposed by its adoption. Besides, there are other propositions still to come, all of which will certainly require consideration, and, perhaps, amendment. If the time is to be now fixed when the debate upon the subject is to cease, and these propositions have not been fully considered-and it is quite probable they will not be-the consequence will be that motions for reconsideration of the several subjects will be constantly made, that some change may

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be suggested, and more time by far will be thus consumed than if the debate was allowed to take its course and be continued until the whole matter was perfectly understood. I think if the subject is allowed to take the usual course, it will tend much more to forward the business of the Committee than if we attempt to force it through by the adoption of an order of this kind. I hope the motion will not prevail.

Mr. CHOATE, of Boston. I appreciate perfectly the influence, and the just influence of the honorable mover of this order. But I shall be constrained to appeal to him to allow his motion for the present to lie upon the table, and not quite yet attempt to fix the time for closing the debate. It must be allowed by every gentleman, that it is the one great remaining question-perhaps the only one-before this Convention; and it must be felt by every one that it is an occasion of great importance, for the declaration of general principles, as well as for the maturing and perfecting in detail of a wise and practical scheme.

Those of us who hold a certain class of opinions are very likely to be unsuccessful in endeavoring to carry out our views; it is quite probable that we shall be vanquished. But, Sir, I think it would be soothing and satisfying to recollect that we have been indulged by the liberality of the Convention with an opportunity of fully debating the question, and that the vote which is taken is the result of the most careful deliberation. I think it will be better for the Convention, and that it will carry its decision, ultimately, with a great deal more weight to the people, to whom these questions are to be submitted.

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of a century, and we must remember, therefore, that it is not to be treated like a legislative session, subject to the restriction of a rule limiting our sitting to one hundred days. Besides this, the indulgence of the Convention may be asked by gentlemen who may have already trespassed upon its time, and who have been replied to with great ability, and sometimes with great severity, and who may desire an opportunity for explanation.

I therefore respectfully submit-I put it rather in the form of an appeal to the gentleman from Natick to allow his motion to lie upon the table for the present. It has been well said that, under the circumstances of the heat, and the state of the weather, the debate may close before the time suggested by the gentleman; but at any rate a motion of this kind tends rather to prolong the debate, than to curtail it.

I hope, therefore, the gentleman will consent to allow his motion to lie over.

Mr. HOOPER, of Fall River. It strikes me that we can gain nothing by adopting this motion at the present time; I think it is altogether too premature. It might as well have been made when the debate first commenced as at this time. As yet there has been no plan presented to the Convention that will carry with it a majority of the votes of the body, and until some such plan is proposed, I think it would be very unwise, and improper, either to attempt to restrict the debate at all, or to force us to a vote upon a question which a few may be disposed to carry through.

I fear it is sometimes the case in the legislature -I will not say that is the case here-that when the time has been fixed for closing the debate or taking the question upon a subject, arrangements have been made by a few to occupy the time, and they do so, and hold possession of the floor to the no small disappointment of those gentlemen who may desire to speak upon the opposite side, until the time arrives and the question is taken. The subject of the House of Representatives is the great question of the Convention, and I submit to the gentleman that we had better spend one, two, or even three weeks in its discussion in order to bring it to a successful issue, rather than attempt to cut short the session merely for the sake of accommodating those gentlemen who may desire to return to their homes.

The gentleman from Natick, (Mr. Wilson,) reminds us that we can debate this subject in Convention, but by the time it is removed to the Convention, every-body will have become impatient. It may be well, however, that the subject should be there considered in detail, but Sir, I think the great principles which are involved can and ought to be examined fully and freely on all sides while in Committee of the Whole. I do not think I should have said this much, however, if I did not miss from his accustomed seat the venerable face and form of a gentleman-and no doubt there are many others also absent-whom I have observed to be making minutes and apparently engaged in laborious preparation for submitting his views to the Committee, but who I believe is absent on account of ill health. Many other gentlemen I am sure are also anxious to discuss the principles of this great question, and would gladly seize upon the first favorable opportunity to do so. We shall probably not have another Convention of this character for a quarter | expressing his views upon this question may have

Mr. STETSON, of Braintree. It is my opinion that the limiting of the time for closing the debate upon this subject, will by no means have a tendency, as has been suggested, to shorten the length of the session, and I trust that every member of the Convention who is desirous of

Tuesday,]

WILSON-WHITNEY-BRIGGS.

an opportunity to do so. I therefore move that the motion of the gentleman from Natick, be laid upon the table.

Mr. WILSON. Will the gentleman withdraw his motion for a moment, as I am desirous of modifying the motion that I made.

Mr. STETSON withdrew his motion.

Mr. WILSON. I am as anxious as any gentleman that we shall have a full and free discussion

upon this whole matter. And I will say to my friend from Fall River, (Mr. Hooper,) that so far as my knowledge extends—and I have attended the Convention almost every moment since it first assembled-I have not yet seen nor heard from any quarter, either from the majority or the minority, the least disposition to stifle debate, or to force through in a hasty or inconsiderate manner, any proposition that has been before the Convention. As I remarked before, it seems to me that eight days spent in the consideration of this subject of the House of Representatives, is sufficient time to have it perfectly understood in all its aspects by every member of the body. I do not wish to be understood, however, as having any desire to drive gentlemen to a premature vote upon any subject, and especially one of such importance as this. I propose to modify my motion so that the vote on the Report of the Minority of the Committee, shall be taken on Friday morning next, at eleven o'clock. That, I believe, is the first question before the Convention, and when it is disposed of, there may be other propositions offered which can be considered afterwards.

Mr. WHITNEY, of Boylston. I have heard it said by some gentleman that he thought people from the country were very ignorant of the amount of labor performed by the legislature, and therefore we were unable to judge correctly in regard to such matters. But I must be permitted to say that very wise men here are entirely ignorant of the amount of speech-making, and the quality of the speeches which is necessary to convince people from the country in regard to the various questions which come up for the consideration of this body. So far as myself and the other gentlemen in the gallery are concerned we have been decided upon the point at issue for the last three days, and although we shall sit and listen to the discussion which will take place before this matter is decided, with a great deal of pleasure, yet I think it will require stronger arguments than we have yet heard to induce us to change our minds upon this subject, or to deviate in the slightest degree from the views that we now entertain. I think we are nearer being ready to vote upon the question than many gen

[June 21st.

tlemen imagine, but notwithstanding this, I shall for one be glad to hear all the remarks that gentlemen may desire to make upon it. And I am disposed to rely rather upon the previous question for terminating debate than upon this plan of assign ng a time for the taking of the question.

Mr. BRIGGS, of Pittsfield. If I understand the mode of proceeding to be pursued when the time indicated by the motion of the gentleman from Natick shall have arrived, it is that any member of this Convention may introduce a proposition to amend in any and every material form the Report of the majority, before we shall be called upon to vote on the question of its adoption or rejection. I also understand that any amendment may be proposed to the Report of the minority in order to make it more acceptable, before the vote be taken upon its adoption or rejection.

Then, Sir, suppose that between this time and Friday morning, at eleven o'clock, some gentleman should propose to strike out the entire Report of the majority, after the first words, and insert some other system of representation to be substituted for it, what sort of condition should we be in under such circumstances? The Convention may order debate upon a certain question to cease in Committee of the Whole at a particular hour, but when that hour arrives, another question may be pending upon which you cannot take a vote. What will you do then? This subject being open in that manner, it seems to me you cannot safely and consistently undertake to limit the debate, especially upon this great radical question, upon which is to rest the basis of the political action of this government for all future time. I know, from the relations we bear to each other in this house, that any opinion of mine is worth but little to those who entertain different views from myself, but allow me to say, in the most respectful manner, that I have regretted that heretofore in our proceedings, almost every important question has been arrested by the ordering of the previous question, thus practically stopping all debate before the subject has been fully considered. Because it is said, and always is said, that the debate may be opened again in Convention. We go on for a little while in the consideration of a subject when some gentleman, under the conviction of the perfect propriety of such a course, rises and moves the previous question; the previous question is ordered, and it is as fatal in its operation as the drop of the axe. More than that, it prevents the consideration of all propositions except the pending amendment. Such a course of proceeding operates extremely hard upon those

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