transaction of business, it is whether a committee of eleven men, selected to compare and examine these several plans, exchange views and bring the plans together so as to form a system, can do it better than four hundred individuals sitting here. It seemed to me very plain, that the small number, who could, if you please, sit around a round table, and have the plans all before them, and make suggestions one to the other, would be more likely to bring their minds together and make the necessary concessions, and hit upon some plan among them, or form one out of all those submitted to them, that would be acceptable to all, and satisfactory to the whole Convention. I do not suppose that I shall vote for any plan which they will recommend; but if they wish to get up this patch work system, I wish to give them an opportunity to exercise their taste and skill in endeavoring to present to us the most beautiful piece of Mosaic work they can accomplish.

The Old Colony has been alluded to, and it is a subject about which I feel a little sensitive, and I feel desirous of doing justice to them on all proper occasions. I shall not enter into the inquiry whether the gentleman from Plymouth, or the gentleman for Chatham, have known the Old Colony longer or better than I have; but I profess to know something in relation to the subject, and perhaps I should not differ from them. I think they are a pretty honest, intelligent, and very peace-loving community, and I think they have practised a Christian virtue for a good while; and that was, when smitten on the one cheek, they turned the other. But if my young friend, (Mr. Davis,) who, supposing that some injustice impended over them, got a little zealous, it is not very remarkable; but I think if they had had the experience which I have, they would have been a little more cautious, and it would be very apt to be supposed by every gentleman about us, who has seen us and known us, for many years, that we had been so used to being skinned, that we should not squirm under the operation. [Laughter.]

Mr. KEYES, for Abington. It occurred to me, Mr. President, that when this motion was made in the Convention this morning, it was a very proper one; but notwithstanding this, if it is believed by the gentleman for Erving (Mr. Griswold,) that it is a more expeditious mode to settle the matter in the Convention than in Committee, I shall coincide with him. I labor under this difficulty: I voted for the proposition of the gentleman from Lowell, (Mr. Butler,) in order that some one subject might be selected for consideration, upon which amendments might be submitted,

[June 29th.

and arguments be made, with some degree of certainty, as to their effect. Now the first reason which would.induce me to favor the recommitment of this subject to the Committee, would be that we should thereby obtain a plan, not only showing the operation of the amendment upon the present census, but upon the future census. I am certainly contented with the gentleman's plan, so far as the present census is concerned, but I have not figured it out, nor do I know that it has been figured out by any one, to ascertain what will be its operation hereafter. In making a Constitution, we are to provide not only for the present, but for the fuFor that reason I am, as yet, undecided how I shall vote upon it. I voted in favor of it in Committee of the Whole, because I was aware that I should have an opportunity to consider it when it should come up in Convention. I may be compelled, from the circumstances, to vote against the amendment, and I do not doubt but such will be the case with many other gentlemen.

ture.

A great deal has been said about inequality, but I submit that this is a matter which has nothing to do with the subject at all, and if the whole question on this point had not been entirely demolished by the able remarks of the gentleman from Northampton, (Mr. Huntington,) I would have endeavored, myself, to have said something about this great humbug of inequality. I could show where there are men in this Commonwealth who have had sixty-six times the power that I have had, notwithstanding what our Constitution says to the contrary.

The reasons which were stated by my friend for Erving, (Mr. Griswold,) upon this subject, have been perfectly conclusive to my mind. He says that the question of districting has been entirely done away with. That is my opinion. That was the only ground for the long speeches which were made in his Committee; it was this that caused the division, and having been once settled I take it that no man is going into that Committee to try and establish it again.

The attention of gentlemen must, therefore, be confined solely to the making of some system by which towns will be represented as much as they can be, and in as equal a manner as possible, throughout the Commonwealth. With these various propositions before them, it strikes me that the committee to which the subject is referred would require but a very short time to accomplish an object so desirable. But whoever that committee may be, let me suggest to them in the consideration of each plan, to show its operation not only under the present census, but also its operations under the two succeeding censuses, ac

cording to the prospective increase of the population as it has been stated in the public documents. Then we can know whether we will adopt such a plan for the present as well as for the future. On looking at the Orders of the Day, I perceive that there is plenty of business to engage the attention of the Convention while all this is being done; and if it should happen that we should have disposed of all the subjects before us before that is reported back, we shall then have plenty of time to consider it and nothing else. I do not believe it will consume the time unnecessarily or unprofitably, but, on the contrary, it is my opinion that such a course, if pursued, will save several days of hard labor in the Convention.

Mr. ABBOTT, of Lowell. I did not intend to say a single word upon the question which has been mooted here to such an extent, whether the Old Colony has had justice done her in times past, or is to have justice done her in all time to

come.

It seems to me that it is a question which really has nothing to do with the matter now before the Convention. And if I may be permitted to speak of that section of the Commonwealth which I in part represent, I can assure the gentleman from Taunton, that it is the furthest from any desire in the vicinity where I live, to do injustice towards the Old Colony. I presume it is the feeling and the wish of the Convention, to have right done to all, though we have all come to the conclusion, I apprehend, by this time, that it is exceedingly difficult to get at and ascertain where that right is, that has been so greatly encroached upon, as is represented. Having trespassed upon the time of the Convention heretofore, I shall perhaps not have occasion again to allude to this matter, but I desire to call the attention of gentlemen to this subject for a moment, in a practical point of view.

Let us sec, before going any farther, where we are historically, in regard to this matter, because we have been considering the details of this question, of the basis of representation, so long that it has really become a matter of history. It was originally, I believe, submitted to a committee, consisting of twenty-one gentlemen, and that Committee, I have no doubt, brought to bear upon the subject all the learning, and knowledge, and industry which they possessed. They gave us two Reports, both of which have been considered in Committee of the Whole, and by the Convention, for two weeks or more. One of these systems reported by that Committee, after having been debated with all the learning and eloquence which could be brought to bear in favor of, and against it, in so large a body as this, after being amended, has been finally adopted in

[June 29th.

Committee of the Whole. And I may be permitted to say, in this connection, that during the entire deliberation of this body upon the subject, no human being in the Convention can say that he has been debarred from the privilege of suggesting such plans, and introducing his figures and results, as he may have deemed would meet the difficulty which existed. Why, Sir, I was surprised to hear my friend for Abington complaining that there had not been figures and results enough. Figures and results! I had begun to think that for the last ten days, we had resolved ourselves into a convention of arithmeticians, for we have been almost smothered in figures. One would almost suppose, from our transactions here, that we had assembled to settle questions of statesmanship by the rules of arithmetic. Every man who has desired it, has brought his plan, and submitted it, either to the Committee of the Whole, or to the Convention; nobody has held him back; no restraint has been exercised, but, on the contrary, he has been allowed to present his view and make his explanations, which have been entertained and considered by this body. And now I submit, if I may be permitted to use the expression without trenching upon the rules of order, whether it does not look very much like boy's play, after we have had the subject under consideration for so long a time, and after the Convention have gone into Committee of the Whole upon it, have discussed it there, and adopted, and rejected the amendments, and plans, and suggestions which have come from all directions and now, when it has been reported back from the Committee after being discussed over and over again, to send it again to be reconsidered and reported upon once more by a committee. After all this deliberation, let me ask where we are? Have we made an advance, have we made one step forward? No, Sir, we have arrived at the point from whence we started? And now it is proposed to send it back to another committee, and see if we cannot get from them something different from the very able Report which we received from a Committee of twentyone, before we commenced the cons deration of this question.

Sir, I apprehend that this body can just as well settle this matter in Convention, as a Committee of eleven, or any other number, can do it. If my friend from Freetown, (Mr. Hathaway,) has any plan which he desires to propose, in God's name let him have an opportunity to propose it. And if it should prove any better than the plan which has been submitted by my colleague from from Lowell, (Mr. Butler,) I, for one, will go for it with all my power.

If it is a plan that will do more justice to the part of the Commonwealth from which the gentleman comes, and do no injustice to another, I will go for it with pleasure. I do not believe there is any disposition in this Convention to prevent any gentleman who desires to do so, from bringing forth any plan, or that there is an unwillingness to listen to any arguments that may be introduced in favor of such plan and its operation, and I believe, Sir, that we are capable of appreciating those arguments at this time. I think the Convention will bear me out in the statement, that no proposition has been submitted, that has not received its due consideration.

We have had on the one side, the Report of the majority of the Committee in favor of town representation, a plan that has certainly the past history of the Commonwealth in reference to this subject, in its favor, and which is based and founded upon the very political existence of the people of this State.

Then again, on the other side, you have the plan introduced by the minority of the Committee, a system which is based on another great principle of our government-the principle of political equality; this has been called the district system. The third plan submitted by the gentleman from Lowell is, I apprehend, a compromise, between the two. It is giving up something asked for by the gentleman for Erving, (Mr. Griswold,) and those who go for the towns, and it is taking something from the proposition of the minority, yet not detracting materially from the great principle of either. I think the Convention will bear me witness that I have stated the matter substantially as it now stands-a compromise and the two extremes. And, Sir, is it to be urged here, that after having brought to bear upon the question, all the learning and eloquence and industry of the many members of this Convention, that we cannot bring into shape in some way or other, either of these propositions? What we want to do is to come to some definite understanding in regard to the details of one or the other of these plans. I am not in the habit of making predictions, nor will I predict what conclusion the Convention may come to in the consideration of this subject, but I will say what I believe will be the course taken by certain gentlemen who are in favor of town representation; and it is this, that if the compromise of my colleague from Lowell, (Mr. Butler,) goes much further in a direction away from town representation, or much beyond it, I apprehend that the tread of many gentlemen in this House will be broad enough and long enough to step over to the other extreme of district representation. I think we are as well able to de

[June 29th.

cide upon the matter now, as we ever shall be, and I hope we shall be allowed to do so. But, suppose that we recommit it to the hands of a committee. That committee will, in all probability, take a certain plan, and comparing it with the history of the past in relation to this question, will decide it in accordance with that history. And do you believe when that system is reported back from the committee, that there will not be this man, and that man, and another man, where it happens to hit his particular town or section of the Commonwealth, who will not jump up and present another plan more in accordance with his feelings and interests? And shall we not, therefore, have to go over this same discussion again?

Laying these considerations aside, however, if this subject is to go into the hands of a committee again, I am in favor of allowing them all the time they desire to discuss and consider it, and I should be sorry to have any iron rule imposed upon them, as has been proposed, that they should report in three days. But when that report is made, whether it be sooner or later, depend upon it, Sir, the fire will break out anew. Gentlemen who have made speeches before will make them again. I, myself, may be a sinner, and yet the circumstances may warrant it; and in this way another fortnight will be consumed. I ask the good sense of the Convention, whether they believe we shall have any more real light after pursuing such a course than we have at present? I trust that we shall go on and finish this business now. If my friend from Freetown, (Mr. Hathaway,) as I before remarked, has a plan which he desires to submit, let him submit it in Convention, and I can assure him it will receive due consideration. If it is what we want we shall adopt it; if not, it will go down, where other plans have gone before it.

Mr. WEEKS, of Harwich. A great deal has been said in regard to the old counties of Plymouth and Barnstable. And it was just now remarked, by the gentleman for Chatham, that the people of Barnstable County were in favor of town representation; I should like to ask that gentleman what indications he can find to warrant this assertion. All of its representatives, with but one exception, have, I believe, voted for the district system, and they are all good demoThe people of that county desire equal political rights with their neighbors in the other counties, and it is all they ask for. When compared with the people of the county of Franklin, we are, in fact, but half men, since that county possesses just double the political rights that we possess; and it is this of which we complain.

crats.

Now, Sir, a word in regard to the district plan.