this to me is a full vindication of that movement. As this phase of university extension has met with large success in this state, so I believe that the scheme under contemplation by the regents of the university will, if rightly executed, work a revolution in the higher education of the masses of the commonwealth.

Sidney Sherwood, Johns Hopkins university - I am not connected officially in any way with any institution of this state, yet I think I have a claim on the attention of this audience. I have been engaged for a year or two in looking into the early history of this University, and I find there something which may be of use to us to-day in the consideration of this question. At the close of the revolutionary war a movement was started for the foundation of a university in this state. The object of this university was said to be the extension of learning throughout this state. It was a movement started independently of the colleges of the state and seems to have had its origin mainly in the effort of the different country districts throughout the state to obtain a system of academies, but the movement was seized on by King's college, at that time defunct through the war. Immediately after, a measure was introduced into the legislature and the remaining governors of old King's college brought in a petition in which they stated the desire to have the name changed to Columbia college and become the mother of a university. That petition was taken up. Columbia men were at that time filling important positions in the government of this state and in the legis lature as well. The law was passed establishing the Regents of the State University. There was in this a recognition of the political existence of the state. The regents were appointed, two from each county. Columbia college found that this did not work well. It was the only college under the control of the regents. Within six months after the passage of this law there was an amendment by which 23 new members from New York county, all Columbia men, were packed into the board of regents. In this way Columbia for three years secured the control of the board of regents and the only care of the University during these years was the care of Columbia college.

Mr Chancellor and members of the Convocation, it seems to me that in this respect history ought not to repeat itself. It was a movement originally along high ideas. The question of coordina tion of academy, college and university should there have been settled. America and France at that time were full of educational

ideas and the French educational ideals had never yet been reached. The whole progress of this century in education has been toward

these ideals.

The University as originally constituted had the power to confer all degrees higher than M. A., other degrees were left to the colleges. Right here we have the solution to this question. Let the University leave to the colleges of the state the conferring of all degrees up to the degree of M. A.; and then let this University itself as the crown of the educational system of the state confer the higher degrees; and let there be a third, a real university school centered here in Albany and affiliated with the other universities and colleges of the state, where such affiliation is necessary.

Pres. H. E. Webster - I was for some reason utterly unknown to myself so far honored as to be appointed a member of the committee to confer with the regents and the secretary of the University in regard to this matter of university extension. So far as the matter has gone, the regents have in all ways and in every particular and in all manners cooperated with the colleges. I am free to say that I do not believe that they will take any action in the future which in any sense whatever can be injurious to college life or college work or college authority. It will be time enough for us to complain when they have done so. I do not believe that they will do so. It is unnecessary for us to say what we would do if anything of that sort should occur for nothing of that sort has occurred. I see, in the activity of the regents as lately displayed a great hope for the educational interests of the state of New York, and propose to stand by them and be with them until such time as there shall be a reason why I should not. I think we have in them a body of men who will help us fight against barbarism. I have no fear or question about the authority and influence of the colleges when the time comes for them to exert it. We can do all we please with the magnificent. body of men who have charge of the secondary colleges of the state. I do not believe there is anything to be troubled about at all.

I confess that in regard to university extension, I have never been very clear as to exactly what it meant and I have looked to the regents of the University to put it into shape, to formulate it, but I wish to state that if it is meant that this work can be done by the men in the colleges to-day, I do not believe that it will succeed. We will do all we can, all of us can do something; but you must know that the professors in the colleges have about as much work cut out for them as

they can do, and they can not take up a great deal of outside work. This is true of the body of men in secondary schools also. I do not know of any body of men more thoroughly overworked than the principals of secondary schools in this state. I do not know of any men who are more worthy and who receive less pay for what they do than these men. I hope and believe that the regents of the state will never be found deviating from the high standards which the colleges hold, which the schools hold, but that they will heartly and sincerely cooperate from this time forth. This I think they seem inclined to do and in this effort let us do all we possibly can to help them and do not let us disturb ourselves about their hurting us until they have done so.

Pres. G. Stanley Hall - If this movement in New York state means the extension of the University of New York, I for one feel heartily in sympathy with it; for the development of the influence of the state University here, which is so very striking to me at this meeting, seems to me to be only wholesome and salutary, and I congratulate the University of the State of New York on the prospects, and on the achievements of the past year. If university extension has anything to do whatever with universities, I am decidedly opposed to it. I agree with the first part of Mr Hooper's address. A university must in the main devote itself to research; it must do teaching, but its teaching is of a degree which would be utterly worthless for university extension. In England two or three years ago I was told by the dean of Christ's college, Oxford, that the reason why university extension had been undertaken with such vigor there by the old universities was at bottom in order to forefend future parliamentary investigations. It was to demonstrate to the people of England that the universities were doing something for those outside. When I went to London I visited several governors of the intermediate schools and I was told by two of them that they regretted that the universities had got ahead of them In England there is a large body of fellows who are far better off doing this work than in doing anything else. That is not the case here. I am engaged at my institution in trying to develop a university, to get a university worth extending; and it is a very laborious task indeed in this country specially laborious because the word university, and the thing it ought to signify, is the noblest thing in the vocabulary of education and in the history of education.

I think this movement of university extension is a very important

one. I am heartily in sympathy with it, but it has nothing whatever to do with the university proper except at one point, and that is in connection with the pedagogic department. For my part I say "hands off" the university proper, either its pupils or its professors.

W. A. Purrington, New York city - I was asked to come here by Secretary Dewey rather to give you a few modern instances than to lecture you on your own special knowledge. The term university extension in medicine, if it means anything like extending the system of instruction in medicine to suit the university extension course of three months, would be to me a most abhorrent idea. But what might properly be called the extension of the influence of this University in medical education has a degree of interest. University extension in the sense in which that term is now used, I believe would be absolutely inapplicable to the study of law or medicine and that to offer instruction under such a system in medicine, specially, would be most harmful. But the extension in this state of the University's supervision over medical education by depriving the medical diploma of its licensing power and vesting that power in the regents, to be exercised through a central board of examiners, is an excellent thing for the colleges as well as for the people. The experience of New York in the matter of the conferring of medical diplomas has been that when the diploma becomes the means of earning a liveli hood it has an unfortunate effect on the very men who confer the diplomas. Under this diploma system, so-called, corporations have been formed throughout the country solely for the advantage of their faculties who derive revenue from fees. The fact that their diplomas have carried with them the right to practise medicine has been the only reason for the existence of these concerns. In the city of New York an institution under the control of the regents of the University sold its diplomas for a petty price to every person that wanted to have the means of carrying on the practice of medicine, and the county had to bring a suit to take away its charter. Even the best professional schools, such as Harvard and Columbia, have notably advanced their standard of scholarship since instructors have felt that in refusing their degree to efficient students they were not necessarily refusing to license the recipients to practise as lawyers or physicians. But this extension of university supervision is a vastly different thing from university extension as that term is here employed. University extension has no function to perform in a strictly professional course of study. Wisely carried out, however, it may

aid greatly in the diffusion of general culture among all classes, including professional men. Its true function would seem to be to widen general culture. To do what Horace said language does, "emollit mores, nec sinit esse feros." the day

So applied it may hasten

When the roughs, as we call them, grown loving and dutiful,

Shall worship the true, and the good, and the beautiful,

And, preying no longer as tiger and vulture do,

Read the Atlantic as people of culture do."

Col. C. J. Wright - It is my privilege to touch on a new element in this discussion and also to represent perhaps the oldest academy in the state and hence possibly to note some facts that bear on this phase, for do you know, years ago the academies of this state, the old-fashioned academies,― unhappily now many of them have passed away or have given place to the high school,-began the work of giving instruction to all, old or young, rich or poor, who chose to come to their halls. I myself nearly 30 years ago was connected with an academy where the young professors or teachers, fresh from college, full of ideas, ready to impart them, were not only willing to give these lectures, without money and without price, but were glad to do so. Courses of lectures were then instituted and largely attended. Now, if I understand university extension, the academies were then, without knowing it had so dignified a name, trying to do the very work which university extension is now endeavoring to do. I know from my own experience that in every community there are many people who would willingly attend lectures on astronomy, geology, chemistry, literature or art, and who would be glad if they could be advised with reference to a course of reading, who would rejoice if they could have the privilege of asking questions on these subjects.

Of course in large cities opportunities are given to-day. Any one desiring to attend lectures in New York city will have no difficulty in finding the opportunities and most excellent lectures, and so in all large cities. I doubt if there be a large city in the country where any person desiring to attend lectures will not find in Young men's Christian associations and other associations the opportunities they desire. In small places of course it is very different indeed. There are here no learned societies, no Y. M. C. A. buildings with well-equipped lecture rooms and provisions for lectures. But there are in many of these places academies, or what stands in the place of the old-fashioned academy, often with talented