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any time or place, or at any fixed price; but this was a doctrine which was subject to some modification, and ought to be controlled by circumstances. It appeared to him, that there was great error in those who attempted to reduce maxims in politics to a sort of mathematical certainty. The subject was, in its nature, incapable of any such precision, and maxims themselves must be liable to certain modification by circumstances as they should happen to operate. It was true, that trade should be free; but it was not true that, even with the freedom of trade, cases might not arise which might call for the interference of the legislature with the course of some trade. It was true, what Dr. Adam Smith laid down in his book, that in general the master and servant, and no third person should settle the terms on which the one will labour and the other will pay for it; but it was not true, that there cannot occur a case in which a difference between a master and his servant should be referred to the determination of a third person. With regard to the feelings of the people upon the subject of scarcity, he apprehended they ought not to be laid totally aside, although they might, in some instances, be founded on misconception: for instance, in the town he represented, the people all knew that in the surrounding country the harvest was abundant; they however found themselves starving, from the high price of corn, soon after the harvest was brought in: it was therefore natural enough for them to entertain doubts that this price was owing to some trick, and, on that idea, natural enough for them to express resentment; but he thought they ought not, on that account, to be treated with rebuke. It had been said, that Jacobin principles had been broached upon the subject of the present scarcity he admitted there had been such principles broached, not by the worthy baronet, nor by any of those with whom he acted, but by some of the judges of England, who seemed to have concerted for the purpose of marking out certain practices and certain persons as objects of popular fury; for some of these judges had gone out of their way, to complain of offences which were not before them-to talk, in general terms, when there was no indictment to be tried, of the iniquity of forestallers and regraters; they had laid it down, that such persons were the pests of society, and this before men who were §

afterwards to act on these sentiments in the absence of these judges; and thus they enlisted the thoughtless part of the community in the employment of hunting out of society, as pests in it, some men who were called forestallers or regraters: the mischief of which was very great, and required a remedy; and the House would not be going out of its province in considering what that remedy should be; for a committee on courts of justice, and even impeachment of judges, was not a thing unknown to the House of Commons. When he said this, he must at the same time observe, that lord Eldon, and the learned judge who went the circuit with him, to their honour, abstained from any observations of this sort.-But there were two points which he thought it his duty to throw out, by way of remedy for the evil of scarcity now complained of. The first was, that an exact account should be taken of the quantity of corn produced, together with the number of acres that produced it, and in what districts. This was easy, and it could hurt no body, for he did not propose any thing to be enacted upon it; the object only was, to possess real knowledge upon the subject, that we might not be legislating in the dark. Upon this he did not see what objection could be urged; it would, as it were, give an agricultural map of the country. The other was a permanent law for the general importation of corn; and for this purpose he would wish te open all the ports in England, at all times, for importation of corn from all places whatsoever; and if that was done, he was much deceived if this wealthy country would ever be in want of corn while there was any corn on the face of the globe. He should propose, however, that although corn might at all times be imported, it should be put under locks in the king's warehouses, and not be exposed to sale until the price was 84s. per quarter. This would obviate the objection, that it would discourage the growth of wheat in this country.

Mr. Wilberforce said, that he had not thought it necessary to answer the speech to which he had alluded when he heard it delivered, because he did not consider its tendency to be dangerous in that House, where it had been sufficiently refuted. But when he saw it circulated in the country, without any other papers being attached to it by which its dangerous tendency could be counteracted, he

thought it incumbent on him to animad-| vert on the mode by which it was communicated to the lower orders. He then read some passages from the speech, which he contended were hostile, not to any particular administration, but to all administration, to all government, to all system, to all order in civil society.

Sir F. Burdett said, he had on former occasions as well as the present been the object of the hon. gentleman's dark insinuations, and indirect attacks; but never till now did he look upon any of them as a calumny, having been content to hold them in sovereign contempt. The hon. gentleman was pleased to remark, that the sentiments and opinions which he was in the habit of expressing, always carried with them the air of fore-thought and premeditation. He most undoubtedly thought it right to weigh well whatever he deemed it his duty to advance as a member of parliament; and if that hon. gentleman thought more, he would perhaps speak less. For his part, he never pretended to come down to the House as à dextrous and expert gladiator, nor did he frequently obtrude upon the patience of the House; it was a rule with him to speak only when he had an occasion to promote the interests of the country, or to oppose what he conceived to obstruct them. As to the objections which the hon. gentleman had set up against the speech he made on the first day of the session, he would make no other answer than by repeating the assertions he then made, and by again declaring, that it was his sincere conviction, that all the measures which were now so anxiously adopted, could only tend to delude the people, without affording them any permanent relief from the hardships under which they at present groaned. The remedy called for was a radical remedy, that would set aside the system of corruption and prodigality, on which the present administration had uniformly acted. That system was the radical evil which consumed all the resources of the country. How otherwise could it happen that a people so industrious, so active, so ingenious, and so enterprising a people who were said to have engrossed all the trade and commerce of the world-a people whose manufactures were flourishing and extensive beyond those of any other nation, and even beyond our own at any former period-how, he asked could it happen that, with all those natural, acquired, and [VOL. XXXV.]

accidental advantages, a people thus favoured and blessed should be reduced to the deplorable state in which the country was now involved? His thorough conviction was, that all this happened because the affairs of the country remained under the inauspicious guidance of an incapable, corrupt, and profligate administration, to whose demands there were no limits, to whose prodigal expen. diture there were no bounds. He now only rose to vindicate his conduct from the dark imputations which the hon. gentleman had attempted to fix upon it; and he could not refute them more completely than by re-stating his former assertionsthat the war, and the vicious system upon which every thing was conducted, were the real causes of the present distress; and that there was no effectual and radical remedy for it, but the adoption of an opposite system-a system that would procure peace, reform, and economy.

The Speaker observed, that if he had perceived that the speech of the hon. baronet on the first day of the session had any tendency to justify the evil practices to which the hon. gentleman had alluded, he would have deemed it his duty to have prevented his proceeding; but it did not appear to him in any such light.

Mr. Tierney said, he wished to have a direct answer from Mr. Wilberforce, to whom the charge applied which he had so boldly brought forward. The charge. was this: that "he (Mr. W.) could not see, without astonishment, how so strange a union could be formed between his hon. friend (Mr. Grey), and certain other persons whose characters were so different from that of his hon. friend, and who took advantage of the distress of the country in order to excite and enflame the people against the government.' He was warmly united in politics, and in every sentiment with his hon. friend, and he therefore must call for a more explicit explanation of the charge he had heard; that explanation the hon. gentleman could not well refuse, either as a religious man, an honest man, or a member of parlia ment. Should the hon. gentleman still decline to give a satisfactory explanation, he must call upon the justice of the House to compel him to speak out; for, to permit such dark ambiguous insinuations to remain unexplained, would tend more to weaken the public confidence in parliament, than the most malicious efforts of Jacobinism.

[3 F]

Mr. Pitt said, that if any exception was taken to the words used by his hon. friend, they ought to have been animadverted on, or taken down, at the time they were uttered.

The Speaker said, that when any irregular words had been made use of, no motion could be made for taking them down, if any other member had spoken after the hon. gentleman who was charged with uttering them. Besides, no member had a right to demand an explanation. He had only a right to interpose, and to call upon the House to animadvert upon them. This must be done by a regular motion; after which, should the House deem the words irregular, the member who uttered them incurred its censure. The hon. gentleman (Mr. Tierney) must no doubt be sensible, that he might call on the hon. gentleman's candour, who uttered the words, for an explanation, or request it as a favour in the supposition that he was misunderstood; but he could not suppose that he had any right to require an explanation.

Mr. Wilberforce repeated, that he meant no personal allusion to the hon. baronet; but he also repeated, that a strange, unnatural, and an uncouth kind of union seemed to exist between the hon. gentleman (Mr. Grey), and some persons who appeared inclined to promote the most mischievous opinions.

Mr. Tierney said, he was little inclined to request any favour from Mr. Wilberforce, and as little to rest on the broken reed of his candour [A loud cry of Order! order!] Mr. Whitbread contended, that, after all his attempts, the hon. gentleman had given no explanation. He must appeal to the House, whether the hon. gentleman was not bound, not only in justice, but as a man and a member of parliament, to go somewhat farther than he had yet gone, and declare who the persons were with whom his hon. friend had a strange, unnatural, and uncouth connection.

Mr. Wilberforce then rose to speak, but was prevented by a cry of No! no!

The Speaker immediately observed, that he should mistake the wishes of the House if he did not recommend it to the hon. gentleman to abstain from any further discussion on this subject. Personal allusions tended only to do mischief, and were derogatory to the honour and dignity

of the House.

Mr. Whitbread contended, that if any such persons as those alluded to by the

hon. gentleman did exist in the country, they ought to be brought to condign punishment; and that the present debate ought not to go forth to the public unless a proper explanation was given.

Sir F. Burdett said, he would call on the hon. gentleman for an explanation. Having been so personally alluded to, he thought he had a right to do so.

The Speaker said, he did not conceive the hon. member to intend any personal imputation: if he did, his intention was misconceived by him; if not, the hon. gentleman, he was sure, would be ready to disclaim any such intention.

Mr. Wilberforce assented to what was said by the Speaker, and declared he meant no personal allusion. He would throw himself on the candour of the House, and hoped it would protect him against the battery which was raised against bim by the gentlemen on the other side, who did not choose fairly to draw from his words the meaning he intended them to convey.

What he intended to

say was, that, in the part of the country where he resided, and which he represented, he had frequent occasion to observe, that what was approved or opposed by the hon. baronet, was also warmly approved or opposed by those persons who were most forward in clamouring against government; and it was his observation of these circumstances, which induced him to express his surprise at the strange, unnatural, and uncouth union which existed between the hon. gentleman (Mr. Grey) and some persons with whom he often acted.

Mr. Grey said, that the charge brought against him would be a heavy charge at all times, but it was particularly so at the present moment, and under the present circumstances of the country. The charge was no less than that he was connected with persons who were disaffected to the government, and who endeavour to inflame the multitude against it. He must appeal to the candour and justice of the House, if such a charge did not irresistibly call for an explanation. When he called for this explanation, it was not because he feared that his character could suffer any thing from such a charge; he trusted his character entitled him to set it at defiance; but it was the character of the House that was deeply involved in it. Would the House suffer any of its members to meditate the designs of which the hon. gentleman spoke, and not call for

other passages, and comment upon all be has said, for the purpose of ascertaining their meaning.

proofs to convict him, that he might be instantly dragged from his seat in parliament to a dungeon? The House, then, was bound to ask and have explained, who the persons were against whose conduct such insinuations were thrown out. He must therefore express his earnest desire that the hon. gentleman would declare who the persons were to whom he alluded.

Mr. Abbot then moved, that the standing order for the exclusion of strangers should be enforced, and the gallery was cleared. It was understood, that Mr. Tierney, after some conversation, withdrew his motion. The Address was then agreed to, and sent up to the Lords; by whom it was also agreed to, and a procla mation, pursuant to the prayer thereof, was immediately issued.

Second Report from the Commons' Committee on the High Price of Provisions.] Dec. 9. Mr. Ryder brought up the fol

Mr. Wilberforce said :-If the hon. gentleman will lend me his good understanding for a moment, I make no doubt of convincing him, that I only spoke of his authority being made use of to support the measures of some dangerous persons [a cry of, who?] That I do not know; but I know the cloven foot wherever Ilowing Report: meet it; and I have no objection to restate what was my real meaning-" that there was a strange, unnatural, and uncouth union between persons who could have no common end or object in view." Mr. Tierney moved, that these words. be taken down.

The Speaker then explained the process on such an occasion. The motion, he said, must be first seconded, and the words, when taken down, must be read to the hon. gentleman stated to have used them; after which, an opportunity must be given him to explain, apologise, or justify. The hon. gentleman was then to withdraw, and the member who made the motion for the words to be taken down was to follow it up with some other. He wished to know from the hon. member the words which he wished to have taken down.

Mr. Tierney repeated-" A strange, unnatural, and uncouth union between persons who could have no common end or object in view."

The Speaker asked whether there were any more?

Mr. Tierney-" And that he knew the cloven foot"-[a laugh!] From the situation of the House, it was impossible for him to recollect the exact turn of the sentence; but if he must only take down the bare objectionable words, without coupling them with any other parts and passages of the speech to elucidate them, it would be useless for him to proceed. The Speaker-The course is this: these are the words insisted upon: if they are the real words, the hon. member will have an opportunity to apologise or explain; but after he shall have withdrawn, it will be for the House to couple the words with

SECOND REPORT FROM THE COMMITTEE

APPOINTED TO CONSIDER OF THE HIGH
PRICE OF PROVISIONS.

The Committee appointed to consider of the
present high price of provisions, and to
whom so much of his majesty's most gra
cious speech from the throne to both
Houses of Parliament as relates thereto,
and also the several petitions presented to
the House complaining of the high price
of provisions, were referred:

Have, in conformity with the principles employ themselves in the investigation of stated in their former report, continued to such farther measures as might tend to produce, either an increase in the quantity, or an economy in the consumption, of food.

Among measures of this nature, the supply to be derived from the fisheries on the coasts of Great Britain, and especially the herring fishery, appeared the most considerable in point of extent, and the most pressing in point of time which reasons have induced your committee to make it the subject of a separate

report.

The attention which has been paid to the herring fishery, by several committees appointed in former sessions of parliament, has collected a very considerable mass of information on the subject; in addition to which, your Committee have called for such evidence as appeared to them necessary.

the places from whence a supply may be obTheir first inquiry was directed to ascertain tained during the present season, and the extent to which it may be carried.

With respect to the first point, it appears, both from the evidence given to former committees, and from recent information, that the herring fishery, carried on during the winter, on the north-western coasts of Scot

land, is neither very considerable in its present extent, nor capable of any very great immediate addition, being nearly concluded for the present year, except in Loch Roag, in the isle of Lewis, a remote and thinly-peopled

district, to which the navigation in winter is difficult and dangerous. With respect to the herring fisheries on the English coast, it also appears that the season is nearly terminated; and the high price at which their produce has been sold, may reasonably be supposed to have encouraged the adventurers to give them the greatest extension of which they were capable. But for the last six or seven years, a great and increasing winter fishery has been carried on in the Frith of Forth, which in the present season has commenced with very considerable success. This fishery, which begins at the end of October, and continues in full season till February, produces so abundant a supply, that, in the opinion of every person who has been examined, it may be considered as inexhaustible.

It is stated to your Committee, that, in each of the two fast seasons, not less than 1,200 boats were employed in the fishery; and the total quantity taken has, by the best judges, been supposed equal to 500,000 barrels, each containing about 1,000 herrings. On a supposition that, by any exertions, this quantity could be doubled in the present season, an additional supply of animal food would be obtained nearly equal to the consumption of two millions of persons in three months, allowing three herrings daily to each person; and none of the witnesses examined, either before former committees, or recently, appear to entertain any doubt of the possibility of an extension as great, or even greater than is supposed, except what arises from the difficulty of suddenly collecting a great additional number of fishermen, provided with proper boats, nets, salt, and other materials for taking and curing the fish.

On this point it is material to observe, that the Frith of Forth, running into the centre of the richest and most populous part of Scotland, and being accessible by an easy navigation, both by the eastern, and (by means of the great canal) from the western coast of the kingdom, there is no spot where the advantage of a high price would more readily attract numerous adventurers, or where any unusual encouragement held out by the legislature, in a case of particular emergency, might be expected to operate with greater effect. Accordingly it is stated, that in the three last seasons, the Frith of Forth was frequented by vessels from Ireland, from the west coast of England, and from the whole eastern coast of the kingdom, as well as from the ports in its immediate vicinity. Your Committee, being informed that the resort of purchasers to the Forth is, in this present season, great beyond all example, and that there is every appearance of as large a supply of fish as ever has been known, think there is rea

son to hope that the quantity taken will much exceed that in any former season, especially if the legislature should think it expedient to adopt extraordinary measures to encourage and facilitate the efforts of the adventurers.

With respect to the duration of the supply, it must be observed, that herrings sprinkled (or, as it is termed," roused or corned,") with a moderate quantity of salt, will continue perfectiy good at least two mouths, and are much superior in flavour and in nutritive qualities to those which are prepared, for expor tation to distant countries, with a greater quantity of salt. If therefore the herrings in the Forth continue in full season till towards the middle of February (beyond which time, it is represented by the best judges as injurious to the fishery to permit them to be taken), they will be preserved till the middle of April by the ordinary method of curing in bulk, but it requires only a small addition of salt; and somewhat greater attention, to make them fit for keeping a much more considerable length of time.

The ordinary price of herrings in the Forth, when fresh out of the water, has not in former years exceeded 5s. or 6s. per cran, a measure containing about two gallons more than a barrel (i. e. about 34 gallons); but in the beginning of this season, an unusual competition among the buyers raised the price to 125. and even to 15s. and 16s. per cran. This extraordinary price was not expected to continue after the principal shoals set in to the Forth, which appears to have taken place towards the end of November; and it has in the mean time an obvious tendency both to attract the greatest possible number of fishers, and to excite them to the utmost industry; and it should be farther observed, that, at the very highest price, it has been found that the Forth herrings could be retailed in London (in the state of roused sprinkled herrings), with a moderate allowance to the persons employed in retailing them, at the rate of two for one penny, a price greatly below what fish of much inferior quality have usually been sold for.

Your Committee are persuaded, that the circumstances which they have stated, will point out the essential importance of insuring the full benefit of a supply so well calculated to afford the most immediate and most extensive relief under the present temporary pressure, as well as to prevent the danger of its recurrence; and they derive great additional satisfaction from reflecting, that these advantages will be combined with many other national objects of the greatest magnitude. They therefore proceed to recommend those measures which, in their judgment, appear best adapted to produce an immediate extension of the fishery, and to provide for the supply being generally distributed, as expeditiously as possible, over different parts of the kingdom.

A very material advantage will be secured to the adventurers, by allowing them the use of duty-free salt, for curing herrings in bulk, as well as in barrel, in such limited quantities as not to occasion the danger of considerable fraud on the revenue.

With respect to the quantity proper to be

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