Browne, Mr. Egan, Mr. Hardy, Mr. Conolly, Mr. Jephson, Mr. W. B. Ponsonby, Sir Thomas Osborne, and Sir Laurence Parsons. They contended that Lord Fitzwilliam, as well as the people of Ireland, had been deceived; the hopes of the Catholics had been excited, and were as certainly disappointed, and instead of unanimity, discontent was prevalent throughout the nation. Mr. Ponsonby asserted, that the most explicit and full powers were given to Lord Fitzwilliam, to carry every measure which was either proposed or in contemplation; none of them had been undertaken without the knowledge of the British cabinet. his opinion, the Catholic question had nothing to do with the recal of Lord Fitzwilliam. He had set himself in opposition to the old abuses of government, he had dismissed certain officers, and then the Catholic question was used as a pretext for his removal. Mr. Ponsonby called upon the Secretary (Mr. Pelham) to deny these statements; he pledged his reputation on their veracity; but Mr. Pelham declined the challenge..

In

Mr. GRATTAN, in reply, said: Sir, certain doctrines have been advanced on the subject of the British cabinet, to which I cannot accede. It has been argued that the British cabinet is to govern the executive power of Ireland, that the viceroy's function was only to obey orders, and to be the English agent in the kindom of Ireland; such a doctrine is fatal to monarchy in this country; in its place it establishes the monarchy of clerks, a government to be carried on by post, and under the dominion of spies, who are less than gentlemen, and more than ministers. It is such a base and dishonourable system that has excited the indignation of some of the Whigs in England, the Duke of Portland in particular. It is that system of national degradation and vice-regal extinction; that system where the clerks dominate and their betters obey, that has sunk a former admistration, and has excited the scorn and indignation of the country. To the returning prevalence of such a system, we must attribute in a great degree the recal of the late chief governor. The cabinet were misinformed; they heard appeals against him from the persons removed, and tried unsummoned, on the testimony of partial witnessess, the representative of the king. They did this contrary to the confidence which essentially belongs to his office, and contrary to a principle indispensable to government. It is a matter of melancholy reflection to consider how little that cabinet knows any thing relating to Ireland. Ireland is a subject it considers with a lazy contumely, and picks up here and there, by accident or design, interested and erroneous intelligence. I am well aware how much on a late occasion the friends of the last administration were grossly misrepresented to that cabinet, and how the disposition and temper of

the people in general were misstated and traduced, and how deaf the ears of that cabinet were to the representation of the viceroy, while open to the tales of the interested and discontented.

While I mention that the viceroy is the representative of the King, and not of the minister, I do acknowledge that it is necessary for the viceroy to keep up with that minister a close communication, that the two executives may co-operate; and that when the English cabinet, who advises the King, no longer co-operates with the viceroy, that it is prudent in him to withdraw. The King communicates with the viceroy through a cabinet officer. He consults with that officer who probably consults with his colleagues touching the matter of the communication; hence an interference of the British cabinet in the affairs of Ireland which will not be questioned till it is abused, and becomes domination instead of being communication. It has been said the committee can answer no purpose because it can command no documents, so that the power of this House in calling for papers is denied, at the same time that the power of the executive is sunk and degraded. I beg to remind this House, that it has a right to command all the correspondence and dispatches, and all the information imaginable. But, gentlemen say, why call for a committee? We have been alluded to as persons to whom blame attached; we desire to be questioned, and we defy our adversaries; and desire it may be remembered, that we are ready to encounter the charge, and that those who make the charge, decline the combat. It has been said, that the reform of abuses in Ireland formed no part of the ground of the coalition; I do not pretend to say what did form that ground; but I do say that one quarter of the cabinet did assert that a principal inducement to his acceptance of office was a reform in the abuses of the Irish government; that it conceived the system to be pernicious to Ireland and highly prejudicial to the empire. I say only, that one great motive to the acceptance of office was stated to be very extensive powers in Ireland; that the arrangement for which the late Lord-lieutenant was said to be dismissed, was by that quarter engaged in; and that the Catholic question received decided approbation, and, if pressed on by the Catholics, the instruction was to give it decided support. I therefore persist to respect, but must marvel much at that quarter; I acknowledge I am astonished. The House will see how very natural this proceeding is. A party connected with certain men in Ireland comes into power; they wish to advance the persons of their friends, which cannot be done without

adopting their principles; from the habits of communication those principles and ideas regarding Ireland are common to both. The Irish connection had their English friends, as averse to the abuses of government as themselves, and ready of course to adopt arrangements of men, without which it is impossible to adopt arrangements of measures. They possess, or imagine they possess, great powers regarding Ireland, and stipulate to exercise those powers in favour of the measure of their connection who are pledged to a specific catalogue of

measures.

As to the Catholic question, nothing more natural than the instruction, "Do not bring forward this question, lest it should produce a Protestant fever; but if the question is pressed forward by the Catholics, allay a Catholic fever; avoid, as in 1792, the greater disease." Of this necessity, of this temper in the people, and disposition to bring forward the Catholic question, His Excellency was to be the judge. It had been hinted in some false and feeble publications, that the question was brought forward by Lord Fitzwilliam's connection; certainly not; the question could not be kept back. I appeal to the knowledge of every intelligent man in Ireland. The acceptance of office by His Grace the Duke of Portland, brought on that question. It is my opinion it would have come on without that encouragement, but that encouragement decided the minds of the Catholics; they supposed with great reason that His Grace was their friend; they knew that his connections in Ireland were so; they supposed that His Grace would consult his friends, and they understood that they had great powers; this confidence, therefore, decided the minds of the Catholics to bring on the question. With respect to the manner of bringing on the question, they might not have at that time decided, but to bring it on they were firmly resolved. The British minister, in 1792, gave hopes to the Catholics; the new colleagues, in 1794, gave hopes; and both have now united in disappointing those hopes which they both had excited. The public disappointment on this point is to be charged to them; so is the disappointment on the general state of affairs; they send over a viceroy professedly to unite and satisfy the people; he proceeds on the reform of certain abuses, and gets a great supply of money and men, and then they recal him in the occupation of his reforms. Having obtained the money, they recal their minister of reformation; because he has displaced some of the ministers of abuses. They do this with as little regard to the feelings of the country as to her interest, and they produce by this act, which they say is done for the preservation

of the empire, an unanimity against the government, after Lord Fitzwilliam produced an unanimity in its favour.

What is the effect of this on the empire, for whose preservation it was said to have taken place? They damp the recruiting service, stop subscriptions, and convert a nation of support into a nation of remonstrance. They offer this affront to the only, or almost the only nation, that stood by England; and while they are subsidising false or doubtful allies, they strike that country who has not received, but has given aid to them; and they do this in the very moment in which she makes her exertion in their favour. They excite a domestic fever at the hazard of the general interest, for no object, or for an object too despicable or too criminal to be mentioned.

An honourable member has said, - Do you think it possible that men of such character would act so? and then he mentions most respectable names; certainly I should have thought it impossible for them to do so if they had not done so. They have actually sentenced a viceroy who, by a good system of domestic government, had procured unanimity for the exertion of the empire; whereas some of them, by a course of bad domestic government, together with their late proceeding, have procured unanimity against themselves. On such an occasion, I wish most ardently to distinguish the British nation and the British administration; and that whatever indisposition their misconduct may excite, it shall be confined to them, and never damp the national affection for Great Britain, which I hope will be immortal. It is said that the people are irritated; who irritated them? the cabinet of England. Who converted national harmony into national discontent? the cabinet of England.

Gentlemen have mentioned publications, and redresses, and remonstrances, entered into by the people. I have seen some which do honour to their authors; just in their resentment; manly in their conception; and nothing less than the occasion called for. I heartily join in such remonstrances; and, with them, I reprobate that pernicious and profligate system and its abettors, which disgrace this country; and, with them, I deprecate its return.

I have not seen all the addresses and publications of the time; but I believe there never, from any description of the people, appeared a composition so blasted as that horrid declaration which we all remember, and which asserted, "That certain parliamentary provisions ought to be defended, as expedients to buy the members-political expedients, and as such to be defended." Such a declaration could

not come from the people, and was worthy the corrupt lips of a herald of profligacy.

I have had occasion to make various answers to different addresses. I remember them well; I re-assert them; if they have given offence I am ready to maintain them; I am here ready to meet enquiry; I am here to confront my enemies, and stand by my country."

The House divided on Mr. Grattan's motion; Ayes 48, Noes 158; Majority 110. Tellers for the Ayes, Mr. Ponsonby and Mr. Jephson. Noes, Mr. Stewart (afterwards Lord Castlereagh), and Mr. Cuffe (afterwards Lord Tyrawley).

ROMAN CATHOLIC EDUCATION BILL.

MR. GRATTAN MOVES FOR A GRANT TO ESTABLISH A ROMAN CATHOLIC COLLEGE.

April 28. 1795.

ON the 23d of April leave was obtained to bring in bill for applying the sum of 10,000l. for establishing a college for the better education of persons professing the Roman Catholic religion. It was read a first time, and on this day (28th), it was read a second time; and Mr. GRATTAN moved that it be committed:

He took an opportunity of stating what had been the intention of Administration in procuring the grant of 10,000l., part of which this bill disposed of. A Catholic college it was thought would not employ the whole of this sum, the residue it was designed to appropriate to the establishment of free schools under certain restrictions, for the purposes of national education. The object of these schools being national, they were to have been open to persons of every religious description. Each of them was to have forty free scholars, with a salary of 40l. per annum each. The school-master to be appointed by the university, and to be removeable by the bishop of the diocese, and his salary to be determined by the number of his pupils. The present

* This last sentence of Mr. Grattan instantaneously excited throughout both galleries, a general burst of applause. The Speaker immediately ordered the House to be cleared of strangers, and directed the officers of the House to suffer no stranger to be admitted in future, without new orders from the chair.