Sidebilder
PDF
ePub

received. He admitted that the management being left to a committee was preferable, but still the public ought to possess a full right of inspection and controul. He would not now enter fully into Mr. Bentham's plan, but it was to be remembered, that lightly as it had been spoken of, it had on mature deliberation been approved of by Mr. Pitt and by lord Melville. He had only recommended the plan of Mr. Bentham to the consideration of the House on account of the advantages it had over other plans of a similar nature, on account of its superior economy, and the

pursuance of the powers vested in his Majesty, by two acts passed in the 18th and 39th years of his present Majesty's reign, his Majesty was graciously pleased, by letters patent, bearing date the 2d of February 1802, to grant to their royal highnesses the princesses AugustaSophia, Elizabeth, Mary, Sophia, and Amelia, an annuity of 30,000l. agreeably to the provisions and subject to the limitations of the said acts, which grant was to take effect from the demise of his Majesty; and his Royal Highness being desirous, in the present situation of the royal family, to be empowered to provide for the esta-prospect it held out of furnishing the conblishment of their royal highnesses the Princesses, by an immediate grant, recommends to the House of Commons, to take the subject into their consideration, and to enable his Royal Highness to make such provision for their royal high-practices on the part of gaolers and others, nesses the Princesses, as in the liberality of parliament may be thought suitable to the actual situation of the Princesses, and to the circumstances of the present time. "G. P. R."

Ordered to be taken into consideration on Monday.

PENITENTIARY HOUSE BILL.] On the motion for going into a Committee on this Bill,

Mr. Kenrick moved an instruction to the Committee, that provision should be made, that persons convicted of felony, without benefit of clergy, should be kept to hard labour.

Mr. Holford rose, in consequence of information he had received, that it was in tended to oppose the principle of the Bill. He entered into a minute examination of the plan of Mr. Bentham, which, he contended, was wholly inadequate to the object; and he drew a comparison between it and the scheme he had the honour of proposing to the House this session. He dwelt particularly on the benefits likely to result from the management being placed in the hands of a committee, instead of an individual controulable only by the court of King's-bench.

Sir S. Romilly lamented that the subject should be discussed in so thin a House. One of his principal objections to the plan now suggested had been removed, namely, that the institution was calculated to receive so few offenders. Still, however, the objects to which it was to apply were too much restricted, as criminals convicted in London and Middlesex were only to be

victs with employment when the term of their imprisonment expired. In support of the utility of prisons being subjected to public inspection, he referred to a recent work of Mr. Neild's, which disclosed

that could not take place if the public eye had been upon them; for he believed in every case, that there were no inspectors or guardians so good as the public themselves. With regard to the erection of Penitentiary Houses, he believed he might advert to the warm and zealous support with which such a plan had been maintained by Mr. Pitt and Mr. Dundas; at least if he was wrong, he saw a right hon. gentleman in his place who could set him right. He wished that the Bill might not be committed that evening, on account of the thinness of the House, and that members might have an opportunity of fully possessing themselves of its object; and he should therefore move as an amendment, that the House should go into a Committee upon it on Wednesday the 15th of April.

Mr. Long observed, in reply to the reference of his hon. and learned friend, that certainly no person was more anxious than Mr. Pitt, that some plan similar to that now proposed, should be adopted. Mr. Dundas was also of the same opinion, but he was not prepared to say that they were particularly attached to Mr. Bentham's plan, (which though it had many good parts, and contained much that might be adopted) it was impossible any person could wholly approve, who had attentively examined it.

Mr. Abercromby spoke in favour of Mr. Bentham's plan, though he had never recommended its unqualified adoption. He would vote with his hon. and learned friend against proceeding farther that night, and hoped he would take the sense of the House on the subject.

Mr. Secretary Ryder stated his objections to various parts of Mr. Bentham's plan. He strongly opposed the amendment, on account of the delay it would occasion. He was desirous of making the plan as perfect as possible; but he could see no advantage likely to result from postponing the Committee on the Bill, as he conceived the thinness of the House was to be in a great measure ascribed to a feeling on the part of the members absent, that to attend on this occasion was unnecessary.

Mr. Wilberforce gave his testimony to the value of Mr. Bentham's plan, not indeed without amendments, which it had ever courted, and could not, therefore, be considered as pretending to perfection. He particularly eulogised that part of it which provided for the restoration of the criminal to society in a manner which would not, as it were, compel him to a renewal of his vicious courses. He trusted this system would put an end to transportation, except for life, to those whom it was expedient to banish altogether from their countrymen.

Mr. Bathurst was against any further postponement. It had appeared, from the report of the Committee, that the situation of the felons in the several gaols of the metropolis called for the most prompt attention. He objected to the plan of making the prisoners a public spectacle, which, in his opinion, had a tendency to defeat the main object, namely, that of affording them every opportunity of solitary reflec tion upon the nature of their offences, and the justice of their punishment.

Mr. C. Adams supported the amendment, on the ground of the absence of many hon. and legal members on the assizes, whose opinions it would be satisfactory to receive on this question.

Mr. W. Smith saw no inconvenience in putting it off for so short a period as that proposed by his hon. and learned friend.

The House divided on the amendment.
For the Amendment ............ 18
Against it........

....

35

Majority.... -17 The House then resolved itself into a Committee, in which the various clauses of the Bill underwent a discussion.

The House having resumed, the report was ordered to be received on Monday.

ADMIRALTY REGISTRAR'S BILL.] Mr. Henry Martin rose, agreeably to the notice which he had repeatedly renewed, to

[ocr errors]

move for leave to bring in two Bills for regulating the Offices of Registrar of the High Court of Admiralty and of Remem. brancer of the Court of Exchequer. As he understood that his motion for leave to bring in these Bills was not to be opposed, he should state nothing farther as to the necessity of them at present. His object was to assimilate the Offices of Registrar of the Court of Admiralty, and deputy Remembrancer of Exchequer, as far as the custody of the money belonging to suitors in those courts was concerned, to the Office of Receiver-General in the Court of Chancery. He accordingly moved for leave to bring in a Bill to regulate the Office of Registrar of the High Court of Admiralty, as far as concerned the custody of the money of suitors in that Court; also, for leave to bring in a Bill to regulate the Office of Deputy Remembrancer of Exchequer, in as far as concerned the custody of the money belonging to suitors in that Court.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer said, he had no wish to oppose the motion of his hon. and learned friend for leave to bring in the Bills. He should mark the progress of the Bills, however, through the House, and should take an opportunity of proposing clauses granting compensations to the persons who were at present in possession of the offices referred to, without which he could not consent to the Bills now proposed passing into a law.

Mr. Martin said, he should be prepared to meet the right hon. gentleman on this subject, whenever the proper stage for doing so should arise.

Leave was accordingly given to bring in the said Bills.

HOUSE OF LORDS.
Monday, March 23.

PROVISION FOR THE PRINCESSES.] The order of the day for taking into consideration the Prince Regent's Message on the above subject being read:

The Earl of Liverpool rose for the purpose of moving an Address to his Royal Highness, on the occasion. He observed, that in a case such as that before their lordships, he felt it would be unnecessary to call their attention but very generally to it. He felt confident it must be the intention of parliament to enable his Royal Highness to make a due and suitable provision for the illustrious personages adverted to in the Message. The more so

when the present peculiar situation of those illustrious ladies, and their exemplary conduct upon every occasion, were considered by parliament and by the country. Under all the circumstances of the case, he felt assured there must exist an anxious desire that such a provision should be made for them as was deemed suitable and adequate for the occasion. The Address, which he should move for the concurrence of their lordships, would not go to pledge the House to any specific grant; yet he was aware it might be desirable on this occasion, that he should, for the information of noble lords, state the nature of the grant which it was proposed to bring under the consideration of parliament. Their lordships were aware, from the communication of his Royal Highness, that as the law now stood, the sum of 30,000l. per annum was appropriated for the purpose in question, but this was not to take place until the demise of his Majesty. From the circumstances of the case, a new arrangement and farther provision became necessary. What it was proposed now to do would take place immediately, and in addition to the sum he had mentioned. According to the pending arrangement, that sum divided between the four Princesses would yield an annuity of between 7 and 8,000l. to each, and in case of a reduction in the number of those illustrious personages to be provided for, that income would be so divided, that if three remained, each Princess would have 10,000l. a year; and the same sum to each, if reduced to two; but in case only one should remain, then the annuity to such remaining princess would be only 12,000l. It was now proposed, forthwith, to increase this pending annuity of between seven and 8,000l. to 9,000l. a year each, subject still to the advantages of survivorship, by extending it to the sum of 10,000l. in case of reduction to three or to two; but in case one only should remain, then the annuity not to exceed 12,000l. The operation of the measure would be to render the pending arrangement immediate, and to increase the respective amounts from between 7 and 8,000l. per annum to 9,000l. This was the general outline of what was proposed. And as it was not competent to that House to originate a measure of the kind, the Address he should move would be of a general nature, not pledging the House to any specific sum. The noble Secretary concluded by moving an Address to that effect, and assuring his Royal

Highness of the cheerful concurrence of their lordships in measures to enable him to make the desired provision.

Earl Grosvenor certainly did not mean to oppose the grant. He only wished to know out of what fund it was to be paid. The Earl of Liverpool answered, that it was to be paid out of the Consolidated Fund.

The Earl of Esser expressed his wish to be informed, whether in the Bill which it was intended to introduce on the occasion, it was proposed to make any arrangement with respect to the provision of her royal highness the Princess of Wales?

The Earl of Liverpool observed, that he had received no commands from his Royal Highness on the occasion, and that the Message before their lordships had merely reference to the establishment of their royal highnesses the Princesses.

The question was then put, and the Address agreed to nem. dis.

He

MR. CHINNERY'S DEFALCATION.] Earl Grosvenor rose to request, that the noble Secretary would give the House some information relative to the failure of the First Clerk of the Treasury and it would depend upon the answer he should receive, whether he should, at some other time, make a motion on the subject. The affair was one of the very first importance. The defalcation, at the very lowest statement of it, was not less than 70,000 should not, perhaps, have called their lordships' attention to the matter in this way, had this been an unique case; but when they saw the same frauds taking place on other occasions, in the Ordnance Department, and elsewhere, it was not a subject to be passed over lightly. These frauds had now extended to the Treasury itself, which ought to be particularly vigilant against all frauds of this kind. Still, however, he might not have thought it necessary to mention the subject in this manner, had it not been that this person had been long living in habits of extravagance, so that people were surprised how a person in his situation should have been able to expend such large sums in buildings, and other projects. This, therefore, was not a common case, in which a default might have taken place without exciting any previous suspicion. Here the suspicions of the Treasury ought to have been roused, and then much of the money might have been saved. The person in question had been a protegé of a right

hon. gentleman, now Vice-President of the Board of Trade (Mr. Rose) whose eyes, it might be imagined, should have been open to his proceedings..

would afford, it was highly probable that full as much time would be allowed for the discussion as was allowed on the last occa sion the subject was under the consideration of parliament. It was at that time the latter end of April when it was brought forward. Their lordships would recollect that a committee of the other House had the subject long under their consideration; and he was confident that noble lords would be amply and satisfactorily informed on the subject.

The Earl of Liverpool observed, that their lordships must be sure he could not regularly afford any information on the subject. The transaction referred to was one between the Lords of the Treasury and one of the Clerks of that department; the proceedings were of some notoriety, and by the extent that was issued, a considerable sum had been obtained. It was undoubtedly competent to the noble earl to bring forward a motion on the subject if he thought proper; and it would be for the House to consider how far such motion could be entertained.

ORDERS IN COUNCIL.] Earl Fitzwilliam addressed a few observations to the House with reference to this subject. He said he should have several petitions to present from manufacturers and other commercial persons, complaining of the injurious and destructive consequences resulting to their interests from the Orders in Council: and that, when these petitions should be before the House, he should feel it incumbent on him, to come forward with a motion for the repeal of so injurious a system.

EAST INDIA COMPANY'S CHARTER.] Earl Grey observed, that under the circumstances of the case, he felt that the attention of parliament should be speedily directed to another topic of the highest importance. He meant the affairs of India, and the approaching expiration of the Company's charter. In this view he had to express his surprise, that not a single document had yet been laid on the table by ministers. What he principally rose for was to ask whether they meant to bring on this great and important subject in the remaining part of the present session; and to know their opinion whether, during the remainder of the session, there would be adequate time for the due consideration of so extensive and important a question.

Lord Melville stated, that it certainly was intended to bring forward the subject adverted to, in the present session of parliament. He had also to state, that a dis cussion was going on between the Court of Directors and government on the subject; and he had little doubt but soon after the recess it would be produced. With respect to what the noble earl had stated as to the time the remainder of the session

The Earl of Lauderdale concurred in the opinion of his noble friend, that the subject ought to have been brought under the consideration of parliament at an earlier period. The noble viscount said, that as much time as possible would be allowed for the consideration of the subject, but there was not the least resemblance between the case, as it at this time presented itself, and as it then stood. At that time they were to believe that the East India trade could be only carried on through a very extensive capital, and preferably, by a joint stock company. Now it was carried on by a company who avowedly had no capital at all. He was afraid there was no resemblance between the cases. A negociation, it was said, was carrying on between government and the company, but he would ask, were the government and the company the only parties? Were not the distressed manufacturing and commercial interests of the country to be consulted and attended to?

Lord Melville said, he should not be provoked by any thing which had fallen from the noble earl to enter into a premature discussion of topics not regularly before the House. When the subject should be before the public and parliament, he would answer, and he trusted successfully, the arguments of the noble earl.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

Monday, March 23.

PETITION FROM PRESTON RESPECTING PEACE, PARLIAMENTARY REFORM, &c.] Lord Stanley presented a Petition from several inhabitants of the town and neighbourhood of Preston, in the county of Lancaster, setting forth,

"That the major part of the Petitioners are actually suffering, and all of them are compelled to see many thousands of their fellow-townsmen and neighbours suffer great hardships, for want of the commonest necessaries of life, which it is not in their

humbly pray that the House will, as early as possible, take into their consideration the present state of the representation of the Commons in parliament; and they have full confidence that the House will readily discover a means of reforming the many abuses which the Petitioners cannot doubt the House is well aware exist in this particular.”

Ordered to lie upon the table.

BREACH OF PRIVILEGE COMPLAINT RESPECTING A WITNESS BEING ARRESTED.] Mr. Eden made a complaint against a person of the name of Hindson, an officer of the sheriff of Surrey, for having arrested a person of the name of Campbell, who was on his way to be examined before a ComThe hon. member

stated, that he was chairman of the com

power, by all the exertions they can use, to procure for themselves and families, as the House will readily believe, when the Petitioners assure them (as indeed was proved before a Committee of the House in the last session of parliament,) that the wages of a respectable body of artisans resident in that once flourishing town and the neighbourhood are less by more than one half of what they were previously to the war with France, which began in the year 1793, whilst the price of every necessary article of subsistence has risen since that time in more than a twofold proportion; and that, in the humble judgment of the Petitioners, these and like distresses, to which most of them, as well as a large portion of their beloved countrymen, are at this time subjected, are attri-mittee of that House. butable, as an immediate cause to the war in which the country is at present en-mittee appointed to enquire into the state gaged; the Petitioners, therefore, are most anxious that if there exist any possibility of obtaining a peace, consistently with our honour and security, negociations may be immediately entered into for the attainment of this desirable object; this anxiety, however, they beg to assure the House, is not created in them by any dread of the enemy; but being unacquainted with any desirable object, to the attainment of which a prosecution of the war will be conducive, they are desirous that no opportunity may be omitted of entering into negociations for the restoration of the blessings of peace and amity; and that in the humble opinion of the Petitioners, the primary and principal causes of the evils they have enumerated, and of many others which they are unwilling to trouble the House with a recital of, are to be found in the admitting into the House of persons sent from old and decayed boroughs, who are, in most cases, returned at the instigagation of ministers of the crown, or peers of the realm, contrary to the express tenor of our laws and constitution; and in the admittance also into the House of many minor placemen and pensioners, who have an interest different, and, in most cases, in opposition to the great body of the Commons of the United Kingdom, whom they ought to represent; and praying, that the House will, in its great wisdom, recommend to his royal highness the Prince Regent, that all possible means may be adopted, consistently with the national honour and security, of restoring to his Majesty's faithful subjects the blessings of peace; and likewise the Petitioners most

and condition of the transports. It being necessary to examine Mr. Campbell, he on Friday issued his precept, requiring his attendance, and that person was in obedience to that precept, on his way to the committee room, when he was arrested by Hindson, Campbell shewed the officer the precept, but the latter disregarded the order and carried him to a place of confinement, where he now remained. In such case, the hon. member observed, he should follow the practice which was adopted on similar occasions, and which was also recognised by the judges of the courts below, who always protected witnesses in going and coming to their courts, and move," That Richard Hindson, officer of the sheriff of Surrey, and Mr. Campbell, do attend this House to-mor"On the question being put,

row.

Mr. Lockhart apprehended that there was no necessity to order the attendance of Mr. Campbell, as the mere statement of the matter of privilege to the House, would be sufficient to induce the officer to discharge him out of custody; therefore all that was necessary to be done was, to order the officer to attend to answer the complaint.

The Speaker observed, that the course of proceeding was so clear, that it was unnecessary for him to interpose his opinion before putting the question. The course proposed by the hon. mover was the ordinary parliamentary course, namely, to require the attendance of the two parties before the House--the one to state the cause and manner of his arrest, and the other to give such answer to the charge as

« ForrigeFortsett »