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templated any measure of relief for those | Mr. Buller to be Clerk to the Privy Coun

who would be affected by it?

The

OFFICES IN REVERSION BILL.] order of the day for the second reading of this Bill being read,

cil had lately been noticed in another place; and the statement in reply was, that this place had been long ago given to Mr. Buller in reversion, even while he was an infant. This was what hardly any Earl Grosvenor observed, that he had a body had been aware of, and was a proof strong aversion to these temporary measures of the secret way in which these transacon so important a subject. He should not tions were carried on. Mr. Buller might oppose the second reading of the Bill, in the be a proper person for the office: he knew hopes that their lordships would agree to nothing about that, either one way or the an extension of its principle, and continue other; but if he was, the public was so the prohibition of granting offices in re- far fortunate, and more fortunate than it version for 20 years. He was thoroughly deserved to be, since it had permitted this convinced that these grants ought to be practice to continue so long. He maincompletely abolished. It was, in his opi- tained that its abolition would be most imnion, a measure of the greatest conse- portant, as recognizing the principle of quence, though he knew that it had been economy, besides the actual saving which described by some as one of very trifling it would produce. The noble earl then importance, and by persons, too, who adverted to the reason assigned in the might have had the best reason to be sa- preamble for passing this temporary meatisfied of its great importance. It was sure, which was, that something consufficient, however, for his argument, that nected with the subject was under consithe public thought it a measure of the last deration by a committee of the other importance; and, in his opinion, unless House. The reason was an absurd one, as these grants were abolished, the constitu- far as it could be exected to operate with tion itself would be endangered. He had, their lordships. They could not regularly on a former occasion, brought this ques- take notice of what was under consideration before their lordships, and he was tion in the other House; but they all not yet discouraged. On whatever side knew, that the subject referred to was that of the House he might find himself, he of sinecure offices. And the truth really should still persevere till the object was was, that these, though distinct from reaccomplished. He was satisfied, that un- versions in one sense, were nearly conless the practice of granting offices in this nected with them in another. They were way was abolished, the people would feel inseparably linked together. They were a perpetual distrust of the executive go- the vultures that preyed on the vitals of vernment. There was hardly any indi- the country, and as they had lived so they vidual, he should suppose, but wished the ought to die together. He hoped he abolition of the practice, except such as should not be told by the noble and expected to profit by its continuance. learned lord on the woolsack, as an excuse Their lordships had before recognized the for himself, that many distinguished principle of the measure of abolition. chancellors had granted offices in reverBut it had been argued, that no material sion. It did not follow, therefore, that saving was to be expected from the adop- they approved of the practice, or that the tion of the measure. It had not been ad-noble and learned lord himself approved vocated merely on the ground of the immediate saving it would produce; but supposing it had, he contended, that the argument was far from being unfounded. He was convinced that the measure was highly important, even with a view to immediate economy. If the abolition of the practice had taken place at the beginning of the present reign, several places which now existed would have been altogether abolished, and there would have been a saving to the state of many millions. A strong objection to these reversions also was, the clandestine manner in which they were given. The appointment of

of it.

That most excellent man and distinguished judge, sir Matthew Hale, had decried the practice; lord Coke had also decried it; and was it to be doubted but lord Hardwicke and other eminent chancellors disapproved of it, and would have said so if the occasion had arisen ? If this practice were abolished, that would indeed be a day of jubilee-of real jubilee for the people: but without this, all would be discontent and disappointment. The Prince Regent would have to regret the pernicious advice which had led him to treat with indifference, not to say with contempt and scorn, propositions of such

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importance as this. The noble earl concluded by declaring, that when the Bill came to be committed, he would move to extend the period of prohibition to twenty years.

The Bill was then read a second time, and ordered to be committed the first Thursday after the recess.

contemplation of a dearth of food. A reverend prelate, whom he did not then see in his place, but whose attention was particularly called to that part of Ireland where the dread of scarcity was most prevalent, must be aware, that, in his diocese, the poor were suffering great distress from want of provisions. Now, in his view of the subject, the legislature, by putting a IRISH DISTILLERIES-SCARCITY OF PRO- stop to the distillation from corn in ÏreVISIONS.] The Earl of Darnley rose to land, would produce very beneficial effects. call their lordships' serious attention to the The encouragement of distillation in Irepresent situation of the labouring poor of land, he considered a strange and singular Ireland. In the first place he was anxious, kind of policy. Among all the evils as far as possible, to obviate any objections which that country suffered-among all which might be made against the general the causes which were said to produce that principle of the motion which he should want of industry, that spirit of insubordisubmit to their lordships. He thought, nation to the laws, which had been so from the present situation of Ireland, he much complained of-nothing operated was justified in calling the attention of par- more powerfully than the facility with liament towards it: but he must at the which the Irish peasantry were enabled to same time observe, that if he believed any indulge in the use of spirituous liquors. real scarcity of provisions existed in that At a former period, when the distillery country at the present moment, he would was stopped, he had occasion to go to Irerepress his feelings, and not bring the sub- land, and he noticed, in the lower orders, ject before the House; because he knew, a very manifest and praiseworthy alterain such a case, that the interference of tion. Instead of the frequent instances their lordships could not effect any great of intoxication, which he had formerly alleviation of the evil. Believing, how-witnessed, he saw very few indeed during ever, as he did, from the best information, that no real scarcity, no great deficiency in the necessaries of life, had actually taken place in that quarter of the empire believing that no immediate danger was to be apprehended-he felt it a duty in-way all governments should do, by again cumbent on him to state that which he knew to be a fact, namely, that certain districts were suffering all the miseries and evils attendant on a dearth of provisions, though no general scarcity existed. Many noble lords, from their residence in Ireland, might probably be enabled to give more circumstantial information on the subject than he could, whose knowledge was necessarily derived from others. But he was convinced of the accuracy of the statements which he held in his hand, which were written by persons on the spot, and from them it would appear, that the high price of provisions and the difficulty of procuring subsistence in particular districts, had been attended with very bad consequences.-The noble earl here read extracts from two letters, describing the distress which existed in the districts where they were written, but the names of which he did not state. The facts narrat ed in these letters were undoubted, and a considerable alarm had been excited through different parts of the country in

his residence in Ireland at that time. He, therefore, thought, that, when the prohibition was followed by such excellent consequences, the government had not consulted the advantage of the country, in the

permitting distillation to an unlimited extent to take place. He might be told, that the proposition he was about to make came too late, for the distiller had already purchased his annual stock of grain, and had even commenced his preparatory process. To a certain extent this might be the fact. But the answer was, why did not government look into the matter sooner ? When they saw the rising price of grain, why did they not interfere? They had a rising market before them; and one of the consequences of their not having interposed was, that oats had now arrived at 30s. per barrel. He should be sorry to propose any thing which could interfere with the agricultural interests of Ireland; but the present was an extreme case, and deserved immediate attention. In consequence of the alarm which had been excited in particular parts of Ireland, the price of provisions had been enhanced far beyond any thing which the circumstances could justify; and, as parliament were competent to entertain any measure

which might seem calculated to remedy the evil, he thought it was the duty of their lordships, even now, to consider the propriety of temporarily stopping the Corn Distillation. He did not mean to assert, that this was the best measure that could be resorted to-but such it certainly appeared to him; and if the noble lords opposite would satisfy him by shewing that they had done, or were doing, all that the necessity of the case required; or if, in opposition to what he had advanced, they would prove that no scarcity whatever existed in Ireland, he would very cheerfully withdraw his motion. His lordship concluded by reading the three Resolutions which he intended to propose for the adoption of the House, namely, "1st. That the present high price of provisions in Ireland has produced great distress to the labouring poor in that country. 2dly. That it is the duty of the House to take into consideration the best means of removing the evil. 3dly. That it is expedient, for that purpose, to suspend the distillation from grain, while such high price continues."

was a proposition which he must deny. He had recently perused a written statement of the prices, in the principal markets, particularly in the articles of the first necessity, of oats, wheat, and potatoes. In some places, oats were at 13s. 6d. the barrel. At Bantry, they were at 14s. at one time, and afterwards at 12s. 6d. on the very same day, they were as high as 25s. at the great mart of Cork. Potatoes were 3s. 6d. the stone at Cork, a price never known before, while in Dublin they were only 1s. The rise, therefore, was far from being universal, and there existed no apprehension of a scarcity. The proposition of stopping the distilleries would not act as a remedy, particularly now the season was nearly at its close, and the stock in a state, from the processes it had gone through, so as to be unfit for the food of man. The government of Ireland had earlier and better information on the subject than either himself or the noble earl, and it was highly reprehensible if it did not adopt every practicable expedient to avert the dangers contemplated by the noble earl. The principal cause, in his opinion, for a rise in the prices of grain in Ireland, was the great exportations of corn from that country, and particularly to Great Britain. It had been stated, that the proportion of wheat imported here from Ireland was about one-tenth; but of late years, the proportion, in the article of wheat alone, amounted to one third of the whole of the British importation! To this the measure proposed by a right hon. baronet in another House, greatly contri

The Earl of Clancarty said, he was fully inclined to give the noble earl every degree of credit on the score of purity of intention, in coming forward on the present occasion; but it was with much regret he felt obliged to oppose the adoption of the noble earl's propositions. Their lordships were not now to be reminded of the great, the extreme delicacy with which the agitation of all questions connected with the subsistence of the population was attended. They must feel the great im-buted. He meant not to impugn the meaportance of having it alleged in so grave a place, that the executive government had neglected its duty on an occasion of such vital importance. But without the existence of any actual scarcity, as the noble earl had avowed his belief of, and without which he must contend that any measure would be injurious, he thought it much to be lamented, that the subject was thus brought forward. His information, which he had from the best sources, from almost daily conversing with persons just arrived, or from letters almost daily received from Ireland, led him to draw very different conclusions from those adopted by the noble earl. There was no danger to be apprehended, or even the appearance of any degree of scarcity taking place, at least during the present year in that country; that an universal rise in the prices of grain had taken place in Ireland,

sure, it was of advantage not only to Ire land, but to the empire at large [Hear, hear! from the marquis of Lansdown]. As to any serious apprehensions of a scarcity in Ireland, he was far from apprehending any. The noble duke at the head of that government did not sleep upon other occasions, and he was not likely to slumber on this. Judging and feeling as he did of the noble earl's proposition, he should take the liberty to move, "That this House do now adjourn."

The Marquis of Lansdowne took the opportunity to offer a few general remarks on the nature and tendency of the measure adverted to in terms of approbation by the noble earl, which had been proposed by a right hon. friend of his (sir J. Newport) in another place; the effect would be more to qualify and render Ireland a grand granary for supply, and almost an

inexhaustible source of supply to the em-cers, and was immediately served with a

pire at large. A system of frequent and reciprocal commercial intercourse between the sister islands, was one, he thought, the most to be wished for, as the system likely to be productive of the greatest reciprocal advantage.

Viscount Mountjoy made a few remarks in support of what had fallen from the earl of Clancarty.

Lord Holland shortly observed, that from what had transpired of the subject, he felt it rather difficult to understand upon what principle, and, with reference to the degree of scarcity to be apprehended, upon what ground it was deemed advisable to stop the distilleries in England, that would not equally apply to Ireland. The motion for an adjournment was then carried without a division.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

Tuesday, March 24.

writ by one of them. I stated to him my situation in regard to the order of the Committee, and shewed him the order, as my protection, but all to no purpose. He said I must go with him, and after going up stairs to speak to my family, who were much distressed, I went with him accordingly to a lock-up-house in Black-friarsroad.

Did you shew him the order before he took you from your house?—I did. What is the officer's name?—I have since understood it to be Hindson. At what o'clock were you arrested?At about a quarter past twelve. Where is your house?-No. 1, Walcotplace, Lambeth.

How long had you been absent from home before the time of your return?-From about half past nine o'clock-[and here the witness mentioned the various places he called at, and transacted business, till the period of his return, in consequence of having forgotten the papers before mentioned.]

BREACH OF PRIVILEGE-COMPLAINT RESPECTING A WITNESS BEING ARRESTED.] Mr. Eden moved, that the order of the day, Mr. Campbell was ordered to remain at for taking into consideration the matter the bar, and Mr. Hindson to be called; of the Complaint made to the House, that but on Mr. Wilson, a Member, rising to Mr. Campbell being summoned to attend ask information from the Speaker, as to the Committee appointed to enquire into the proper course of proceeding, the witthe manner in which Sentences of Trans-ness was ordered to withdraw. portation have been executed, and into the effects which have been produced by that mode of punishment, had been arrested by a Sheriff's Officer yesterday, on his way to the House, be now read.

The order being read, Mr. Campbell was called to the bar, and interrogated by the Speaker.

Q. Your name, sir, is Campbell?—A. Yes, Robert Campbell.

Did you receive an order to attend a Committee of the House of Commons yesterday?-Yes, I did..

In writing?-In writing.

[The Order was here put in and read. It was signed by Mr. Eden, as Chairman of the Committee, and ordered Mr. Campbell to attend.]

Were you prevented from attending by any circumstance, and what?—I was.

By what?-By an arrest.

Where?-In my own house. I had been out in the morning, and a little past twelve o'clock returned home for some papers which might assist me in answering questions which might be put to me by the Committee, and which I had forgotten. I found there three sheriff's offi

Mr. Wilson then stated some objection that appeared to him? In reply to which,

The Speaker said, it was the established course of the House first to ascertain, by evidence, the nature of the facts, and then it was competent for any hon. gentleman to propose what course he thought fit to be adopted.

The parties were then called in, and
Hindson, the officer, examined:
Your name is Hindson ?—Yes.
You are a sheriff's officer?-I am.
Did you arrest Mr. Campbell yester-
day?—I did.

Where, and at what time? At No. 1,
Walcot-place, Lambeth, about 12 o'clock.
On what process, a civil or criminal
action?-On a special Capias for debt.

Did he at the time allege any reason why the arrest should not take place?Yes, he did. He stated that he was called on to attend a Committee of the House of Commons, and produced a written paper to that effect, such as I had never seen before. My writ included two persons of the name of Campbell (John and Robert), and the order did not specify the christian name.

tend the Committee at one, and was passing by the Horse-guards at five minutes after twelve, nothing could be more probable than that he had returned for the purpose he had forgotten.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer said, if the witness had been bona-fide on his way to the House, its privilege ought unquestionably to be extended to him; but his being found at home might naturally enough lead the officer to suspect, when the order was produced, that it was some trick if the man was passing the Horseguards at twelve o'clock, and went home, as he had stated, for a paper which he had forgotten; all this might be considered as in progress towards his attending the Committee, and the privilege of the House ought to be extended to him. He conceived it must be admitted, unless the veracity of the witness were questioned, that he was entitled to the privilege of the House.

What did you do accordingly?—We walked together to Blackfriars-road, where I procured a special messenger to go to Mr. Campbell's attorney, to desire him to attend the Chairman of the Committee. I went myself to Messrs. Dan and Crossland, the solicitors, who employed me, and stated the case to Mr. Dan, whom I saw, and shewed him the order which I had procured from Mr. Campbell for that purpose; Mr. Dan said he did not think it was a legal protection, and directed me not to discharge my prisoner till a proper enquiry should be made. From him I went to Mr. James, the under-sheriff of Surrey, who informed me, that no similar case had occurred during the time he had been in office, and requested to go for information to Mr. Burchell, the under sheriff of Middlesex. I saw Mr. Burchell, who gave his opinion, that being in Surrey, it did not come within the jurisdiction of the House; and that I ought to wait till a new order was made, which would probably be this day. I then went back and saw Mr. Campbell. I told him that Mr. Dan refused to grant the discharge, and also what had passed between me and the un-mittee. der-sheriffs.

Did you take any steps to ascertain if Mr. Campbell was the person summoned by the Committee I never was in the House of Commons before, or nearer to it than the court of King's-bench, in Westminster-hall. I did not enquire into this, as my time was occupied, as I have stated, and I was served with the notice to attend here to-day, soon after I got home.

What is the amount of the debt? 6,9601. and upwards. If it had fallen on me, it would have been utter ruin to myself and family.

The parties being withdrawn,

Mr. Eden, without offering any obseryations, moved-" That Mr. Campbell be allowed the privileges of this House, and be discharged from his arrest."

Mr. Wilson did not think him entitled to this, as the case did not come exactly within their privileges, which he was as anxious to preserve as any man. He then stated the facts as disclosed in the preceding evidence, and contended, that Mr. Campbell being at that hour returning to his own house, could not be said to be in progress to the Committee of the House of Commons.

Mr. Eden felt that there could be no doubt on the question before the House. As Mr. Campbell had been ordered to at

Mr. Wilson observed, he had been somewhere else all the morning previous to his passing the Horse-guards at twelve o'clock, on business not connected with the Com

Mr. Lockhart thought, the order of the House, which was in his possession, ought of itself to have protected him from an arrest.

The question was then put and carried.

Mr. Eden was of opinion that no censure was deserved by the unfortunate sheriff's officer, and he should therefore not propose to proceed with any severity against him; but he thought Mr. Dan, the attorney, ought to be ordered to attend to receive a reprimand for the language which he had held with respect to the order. He would therefore move that Mr. Dan he ordered to attend.

The Speaker wished to know, if the hon. gentleman would pursue this motion before the House decided on giving an order for the attendance of Hindson again tomorrow.

Mr. Stephen, before Mr. Dan was ordered to attend, wished to observe that there had appeared no intention on his part to infringe the privileges of the House. He would put it to them, if when the amount of the debt was considered, it could be expected that any man would take upon himself the heavy responsibility of ordering a discharge of the arrest, unless he was certain that the order would justify his doing so.

Mr. Tierney thought Mr. Dan ought at

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