before you could convict him. Our court held that a man must have been engaged in bookmaking for some time, and that was one of the things that must be proved. Senator STERLING. Was that a decision of the court of appeals, or of a local court. Mr. CHASE. No, sir; that was a decision of Judge Scudder in the lower court. Later, in another case, Judge Scudder's findings were carried up and have now been reversed by the upper court. I was just showing you the method by which this gambling interest influenced the courts, or at least fooled the courts. I do not know how it was done, but they were most ridiculous decisions.

Another thing was that so long as you could not prove that any money passed, if it was done on credit, it was held that it was not bookmaking; that you had to prove that there was an actual passage of money. Consequently, as it goes on to-day very largely it is done by a credit system. A man gets credit somewhere outside, and then it is passed along, and it is done that way. I would say that there was a very much larger amount of race-track gambling the last two years, than perhaps ever before. But within the last three months the matter has been taken up in New York, and the police officials there have brought some cases that have been held by the lower magistrates, and one of which is now before the general sessions; and the last thing was that gambling was very much reduced in New York City and thereabouts, and gamblers are very much discouraged now at the local situation there. But just before that, gambling had assumed very large proportions.

Senator STERLING. To what do you attribute that increase of gambling in that time?

Mr. CHASE. The more effective organization of the commercial interests promoting gambling, taking advantage of a lower moral standard which is a natural result of the war. The gambling business has increased somewhat because of the success of prohibition of the liquor traffic. Men who had no conscience about the liquor traffic, but have now been compelled to take their money out of it, seeking easy money, are turning to gambling. And the same influences which have destroyed the organized liquor traffic, so far as it has been destroyed, are the influences that are opposing this same kind of commercialization of the weaknesses of human nature. Senator STERLING. You think there is a sort of a feeling of recklessness and of want of responsibility as an aftermath of the war?

Mr. CHASE. That is what I mean, yes; I mean this lowering of moral standards. You can not have-how many men were in the war?

Mr. CRAFTS. Over 4,000,000.

Mr. CHASE. You can not have 4,000,000 men cutting their brothers' throats, stabbing their brothers to death with bayonets or shooting them, no matter how righteous their cause is, without lowering moral standards; and undoubtedly there was a great deal of gambling in the Army, to occupy their idle time-a great deal of it. And there is a great deal of gambling to-day, unquestionably. A certain amount of crime and vice will always be with us; but the men who are responsible for it are those who have organized it and promoted the business of stimulating gambling. That is the enemy of the human kind.

Senator STERLING. Are there any questions to be asked Canon Chase?
Mr. CRAFTS. Does anyone wish to ask Canon Chase any further questions?
Mr. Chairman, is there to be any further hearings?

Senator STERLING. Yes; I understand there are some witnesses in behalf of the bill, who can not be here at this time, but who can be here this afternoon or to-morrow, and they have asked that the hearings be continued until this afternoon or to-morrow, and possibly over until Monday.

Mr. CRAFTS. Who else are to be heard?

Senator STERLING. Are there any present who desire to be heard at any time in opposition to the bill?

STATEMENT OF MR. JOHN I. DAY, REPRESENTING THE NEW YORK TELEGRAPH.

Mr. DAY. Mr. Chairman, I will say that I represent the publishers of newspapers. They have had no sufficient notice of this hearing.

You say this hearing was requested by Dr. Crafts, and the notice was received only two days ago, I think. You sent out notices that a hearing would be held to-day at 10.30 a. m. One notice was sent to the publisher of the paper I represent, the Morning Telegraph. The other notice was sent to former Senator Camden of Kentucky, and another to Mr. Dinsmore in Chicago. Those are the only men interested in the bill who were notified at all.

On behalf of the newspapers I can assure you-I speak authoritatively-that they would oppose section 5 of this bill.

I may also call attention to the Congressional Record, showing that when this bill was brought up by Mr. Ramseyer, when Mr. Walsh offered section 5, previous to that he had asked Mr. Ramseyer if the Post Office or the Postmaster General wanted the antilottery bill, and was assured that they did, after which he added section 5, which had never been submitted to the Postmaster General or to the Solicitor General for the Post Office Department. Whenever that section had been referred to officials of the Post Office Department, they had reported unfavorably, that they did not want it; that they did not see why it was right to prohibit the publishing of information in the newspapers if the readers want it.

In that bill you ask us to cut out all reference to horse racing and races run at any time anywhere, or to be run. Do you know, sir, if that bill passed that we could not bring into this country a copy of the London Times or of the London Telegraph, or any of those big papers from the capitals of Europe? They all print racing news and give the odds, and give predictions as to the results of races. We could not bring one of those into this country. But, on the other hand, there is not a paper you know that would attempt to disobey the law-I mean a first-class paper--because they would not want to lose their mail circulation; but in each city there would spring up a small paper that would print racing news, and the probable outcome of races, and it would be sold on the streets. This would not stop any race-track betting whatever. It would not stop it in the States that have laws for racing commissions of the State. Senator STERLING. But it would prevent sending those small papers that are and would be giving this news through the mails.

Mr. DAY. Using the mails to defraud in any way covers that, of course-sending tips, or

Senator STERLING. Would you think that a statute preventing the use of the mails to defraud would cover a question of that kind?. There would be a question about it, I think.

Mr. DAY. It would cover those tipsters that offer information. The Post Office Department stops many of those from using the mails.

You will notice they are not allowed to receive any mail, but you have to do business with them by telegraph, except a very few small ones that have not even been noticed. I was going to tell you about the small papers. There would be one here in Washington, because you could not keep them from getting news of the results. You would have one in Baltimore and one in Philadelphia, and half a dozen in New York, probably. It would not stop what these gentlemen are fighting against-the gambling evil, as they call it at all. I do not call it gambling. I think there is a very small percentage of the men who go to the race tracks who bet on the races; or, I will not say a small per cent, but it is not a majority, by any means. They go there to see the races. There is why the publishers would want to be heard-all the papers of the country, the New York Times, the New York World, the Herald, and others. When this measure was passed by the House, some papers commented on it editorially as a poor bill, and it was evident they had not even considered it seriously. There is a consensus of opinion among them that it was not even necessary to ask the Senate to consider it more seriously. They thought they would know that the people wanted that news.

Senator STERLING. I do not recall that there was any request on the part of the publishers of newspapers to be heard when the original bill, which I think is a Senate bill and is largely embodied in section 5 of this bill, was before the committee for hearing.

Mr. DAY. There was a request of some of them; but there was a hearing on the Sims bill, was there not?

Senator STERLING. Yes.

Mr. DAY. The horsemen mostly attended that. It is not now a question of racing, or anything else. We could not print the news from the Army and Navy football game. There was not a paper that came out with the advance notices of that that did not mention the prevailing odds. There are Army men and Navy men all over the country, and they like to know which team is favored, and little bets are made. You could not print that matter, under this section. There is no big athletic contest or anything of the kind, any contest, north or south or west from New York, that there is not a great demand for news concerning it, just as there is demand for news of elections; and they will say, "What are the odds and what are the chances for one side or the other."

Mr. CRAFTS. We have to leave in a moment. Do any of you wish a hearing to-day? Mr. DAY. The members of this subcommittee are busy now; you see the other two members of the subcommittee could not be here to-day, and we would have to consult their convenience as to coming here; and we would want a little bit of time for further preparation. I would suggest that we have here representatives from the Washington

Post, the New York Times, the New York Herald, and those papers, that do not want to see section 5 passed, I can assure you.

Senator STERLING. I think the chairman can fix a day which will give an opportunity for the publishers to be heard, far enough in advance of the present time.

Next Monday is the regular meeting day of the full committee. It is our regular Judiciary Committee meeting day. My thought was that I would continue this hearing until next Tuesday.

Mr. JOSEPH E. BAILEY. Mr. Chairman, I do not represent any man or any organization. I heard this hearing was to be had, and I thought I would like to hear the trend of the arguments; and, having heard it, I believe that I would like to submit some observations upon the power and right of the Federal Government to undertake the control of these matters. I understand that the purpose of this is to close up the race tracks. It is stated here that for the purpose of suppressing betting, you will close them up. I am not sure as to whether that is true, and I am indifferent as to whether it is true or not; but if that is the purpose, I think that belongs to the States. Senator STERLING. Excuse me, Senator Bailey, have you read section 5? The other sections are all amendatory of present law.

Mr. BAILEY. I know. I know this committee started on this legislation with the lottery bill. That bill was sustained by a bare majority of one in the Supreme Court, the other members insisting that it was not commerce, and that it was an invasion of the rights of the States. They finally got a majority in the court by inserting in that opinion that it was not intended to hold any further than that a lottery ticket was a subject of interstate commerce, and that was prohibited.

Now, if the Federal Government does undertake to suppress gambling, of course I think it ought to go the whole distance; I think it ought to prohibit these ladies playing bridge, and it ought to close every stock exchange in this country. They bet millions every day on the stock exchange where they bet thousands on race courses. But I do not think it is any part of the business of the Federal Government; and if it is entirely agreeable to the committee, whenever it resumes its sessions I think I would like to have a word to say about that. I do not suppose there is any use in contending for the rights of States now, but I am still contending for them. Senator STERLING. I do not think there will be any objection to hearing you, Senator Bailey, when we resume the sessions. Now I would like to ask Dr. CraftsMr. CHASE. Dr. Crafts has just left.

Senator STERLING. Well, does anyone present understand that there are some that can be here to-morrow? Mr. Pringle, can any that you know of be here to-morrow; are there any to be heard for the bill?

Mr. PRINGLE. So far as our side is concerned, we can be here. But are there any more to be heard?

Senator STERLING. I understand there are several who wish to be heard. I think there are two or three.

Mr. PRINGLE. I did not understand that there were any others.

Senator STERLING. But I am not sure who they are. However, it will be understood that the subcommittee will meet again to-morrow at 10.30 o'clock, with the further understanding that others can have a chance to be heard on next Tuesday at 10.30 o'clock.

Mr. BAILEY. I want it thoroughly understood, Mr. Chairman, that I am not asking for a hearing on either side, as far as that question is concerned. I am interested entirely in another.

(The following letters from the heads of police departments in different parts of the United States in favor of the Sims bill, a similar bill in the Sixty-sixth Congress, were offered for the record by Mr. Deets Picket, and are here printed:)

NEW YORK CITY.

Such a bill would be of assistance in the prevention of fraud and crime due to betting on races, and would be of considerable assistance to the police department of this city in suppressing gambling, particularly gambling on horse races.

During the past year nine elaborate telephone centrals organized for the purpose of distributing racing information to gamblers have been driven out of this city, but they are still a source of annoyance, inasmuch as they have reestablished themselves in an adjoining State, and in cities located just outside the New York City jurisdiction, and although they are considerably handicapped in their operations, they are still able to furnish information to some of their former clients.

R. E. ENRIGHT, Police Commissioner.

CHICAGO.

I believe this bill would be of considerable value in suppressing gambling on race horses, especially in this city, inasmuch as there are no tracks in the State of Illinois, and the information concerning winners, odds, jockeys, etc., is transmitted by means of telephone and telegraph. Bookmaking could not exist without this information, and if it was made a crime to transmit the same in interstate commerce I believe the books would go out of existence.

JOHN J. GARRITY, General Superintendent.

CLEVELAND.

A

Special details have been made from time to time at various poolrooms, cigar stores, etc., with a view of eliminating this form of gambling and many arrests made. number of our citizens, as well as persons lured here from out of town, have been fleeced out of large amounts of money by the wire tapping scheme.

In my judgment, should such a bill become a law, it would be of valuable assistance to all police departments in preventing fraud and crime of this character.

FRANK SMITH, Chief of Police.

CINCINNATI.

In reply, beg to state that I think this bill if passed would be of the greatest benefit and help to the police in preventing gambling, especially handbooking. Would therefore welcome its passage.

WILLIAM COPELAND, Chief of Police.

ATLANTA.

I think that such legislation would be of great help and that it would go a long way towards preventing crime due to absentee betting on races. I sincerely hope that the bill now pending will become a law.

JAMES L. BEAVERS, Chief of Police.

ROCHESTER.

In reply, beg to state that I believe that the enactment of such a law would be beneficial and would undoubtedly be of great assistance in preventing crime due to absentee betting and all other crimes for which gambling is primarily responsible. I hope that such a bill may become a law.

JOSEPH M. QUIGLEY, Chief of Police.

COLORADO SPRINGS.

I am firmly of the opinion that it is necessary to pass the proposed law for the suppression of gambling information from foreign countries. One of the familiar games that confidence men use is supposed race-track information from Habana, Cuba, and they usually use that manner of trimming suckers out of large sums of money on the strength of advance information on the outcome of horse races.

H. D. HARPER, Chief of Police.

CHARLESTON, S. C.

I wish to state it would be a God's blessing if such a bill could be passed, because we are having trouble here with that class of thieves, and such legislation would be a blessing to every community, and you have my best wishes and my hearty indorsement for such work.

CONRAD II. A. STENDER, Chief of Police.

BUFFALO.

This bill meets with my hearty approval, and the only suggestion that I can make is that the bill be made as strong as possible.

JAMES W. HIGGINS, Chief of Police.

SAN DIEGO, CALIF.

If such a bill were passed by the Congress, it would undoubtedly be of great assistance to this department in the prevention of crime.

This city, being but 16 miles from the Mexican border and from the Mexican town of Tijuana, where a large race track will be opened sometime in January next, a great number of race-track followers will flock to this city, bringing the usual number of hangers-on and criminals of all descriptions, who will ply their trade, not only among the thousands who attend the races, but among the permanent residents of the city. It is my unqualified opinion that all efforts should be expended to secure the passage of a bill which would eliminate the evils attendant upon race-track gambling, and you have permission to use my name, if it may be of any value, as being in favor of legislation looking to that end.

JAMES PATRICK, Chief of Police.

SPOKANE.

We consider this very helpful and a legislative action which is a great help to the police departments. W. J. WEIR, Chief of Police.

DETROIT.

I wish to acknowledge receipt of your letter of December 12, and to say that any kind of legislation that would prohibit the nullification of State anti-gambling laws, reduce crime due to betting losses, and put a stop to handbook making, would be of great benefit to thousands of families in Detroit. It would assist us in preventing fraud and crimes due to absentee betting.

We are in favor of any law that would have a tendency to eliminate these parasites of society.

WILLIAM P. RUTLEDGE, Superintendent of Police.

LEXINGTON.

I am a great admirer of horse racing. I am equally opposed to handbook making and am in favor of any legislation that will help to do away with this evil, if such legislation does not have a tendency to injure legitimate horse racing.

COLUMBUS, OHIO.

J. J. REAGAN, Chief of Police.

If the law is properly drawn so that it is enforceable in municipalities throughout the United States, it being a Federal law, there is no question but what it would be of material assistance in preventing fraud and crime due to betting on races.

I am heartily in favor of a law of the kind mentioned in your letter. and feel that if it is properly drawn with the proper enforcement provisions carried with it, that it will be of material benefit to the country.

CHARLES E. CARTER, Chief of Police.

LOS ANGELES.

I beg to advise you that it gives me great pleasure to express my approval of the bill prohibiting the transmission of race track information.

There is probably no other vice that leaves its path strewn with destruction and sorrow as does race track gambling. Men in trusted positions again and again steal