the sparsely settled areas and they are the ones where we would perform a great many class services, which it is now impossible to provide with our present financing plans. Then there is a second type of service that we would provide immediately. For example, in Jefferson County, which is the greatest population center in our State, the seat of Birmingham, Ala., we have a great many people who work in agriculture and mining and activities of that sort who are greatly in need of a much deeper and more extensive understanding of the basic principles of health education. They already get services from their county health organizations and some from specialized medical groups. But there is no service to tie all that together and give it meaning to them. So that they really apply it to the way they live from day to day. Now, the second thing we would do would be to put someone in those population concentrations where there are large groups of people of that type who could bring together the already fine health services that exist into a program of health education that had meaning that could get down to the business of applying those things in the ways people live. I am not suggesting to you that we would necessarily confine what we do to those two things but those are two obvious needs that could be met in this way and for the amount of money that is proposed in this bill we could not do very much else other than the things I have suggested right at this moment. Mr. GIAIMO. Would you envisage any change in your correspondence extension program? Mr. MORTON. I do not. Mr. GIAIMO. You would not. Mr. MORTON. The only change there we might be able to reduce the costs of some of that, so certain population groups with few financial resources could take advantage of it. Now, in the study of this service which I worked on some years ago, it was a little amazing to find that the principal users of university extension services were fairly prosperous people already, and it is entirely possible that this might permit us to reduce costs in a good many places where there were groups that could be served. Now, I have not analyzed that situation with respect to our own State. I could not tell you just where reductions of cost would result in immediately increased services. But it offers that opportunity. Mr. GIAIMO. Do you think that there would be an extension in the television extension program? Mr. MORTON. Of course; I think that there has to be an extension of that one way or another. Mr. GIAIMO. Under this bill? Mr. MORTON. Let us put it this way. I believe that unless we can find ways to extend that program it will not continue, that its very life. depends on it being extended in many areas of service that have not yet been tested. Mr. GIAIMO. In other words, you think that this television program is worthwhile and should be enlarged? I would like to hear your thoughts on that. Mr. MORTON. Let me illustrate concretely an example of where I think it is practical. In our State one of the grave problems we have in our counties is the maintenance of trained sanitation officers in the county health departments. The kind of money we are able to pay does not keep a sanitary engineer. As a consequence, a great many of the people we have as sanitation officers in the slums are people with relatively little training. The State health officer has talked with us about this problem a great many times and we have talked about the possibility of having some inservice training for those people to try to improve their capabilities as they go along. But the demands that the State health department has for this very limited supply of people are so heavy, that the State health officer has never seen his way clear to release any of their time for training purposes. We have in Alabama a State television network that gets a reliable signal into 50 of our 67 counties. I have been trying to encourage him to arrange for a training program for at least 50 of his 67 sanitation officers by television. But the initial expense of that venture is such that he has not seen his way clear to footing the bill on it. I have no way to foot the bill on it unless he can help with it. I have an idea that that illustrates what I have given you just now has many different applications and these small funds that we are talking about here would at least give us something that we could use to experiment with that sort of thing. We have had a considerable amount of money from the Ford Foundation, for certain types of experimental work. But it has not permitted the sort of thing that I have just described to you. The principal efforts that have been permitted there, experimentation, in supporting the work of the secondary schools, and we have worked on that very extensively for the last 3 years and I think we have discovered some extremely useful things to do. Mr. GIAIMO. Would television programs of the kind you are talking about, for example, this inservice training for these maintenance workers, were they sanitation workers? Would that encompass the idea of their getting credits of any type? Mr. MORTON. It could. We have at the present time three college degree credit courses in which people can enroll for credit by television. One is in psychology, one is in Spanish, and one is in mathematics. And we have moderately large enrollments in them. Mr. GIAIMO. You feel that this whole problem of education by television, which is probably something that this country is going to really have to go into eventually, you feel it is a medium that definitely should be used and expanded for these purposes? Mr. MORTON. I do not actually see how we have any other alterna tive. Mr. GIAIMO. Do you think it is effective? Mr. MORTON. I know it is effective. Mr. GIAIMO. Or whether it can be made effective. Mr. MORTON. I know it is effective. In some ways it is even more effective than face to face. There is a stimulation on the part of the instructor that comes from doing it on television that he does not have when he does it in a small group he can see. Mr. GIAIMO. He doesn't have any disorder in his classroom, does he? Mr. MORTON. I do not think the disorders in his classroom disturb him. But there is a challenge. You know, when you have a class of 12 people that you see with some regularity, there is a certain comfortableness about that and try as you will you cannot keep yourself on edge in the same way that you can when you are on television and you just do not know who sees you. Mr. GIAIMO. There is one other question I had, Mr. Chairman. Back on the first page of your testimony where you stated that more than 90 percent of State universities and land grant colleges and such private institutions as, and I think you mentioned Southern California, Brigham Young, and the University of Chicago, Syracuse, N.Y.U., and Harvard University constitute this membership. Are there other schools other than the ones that were specifically mentioned? Mr. MORTON. I said more than 90 percent of the land grant colleges and universities. I mean that practically all of the State universities of this country belong to the NUEA, plus the private institutions that I mentioned. Mr. GIAIMO. Just the ones that you mentioned. That is what I want. Mr. MORTON. There may be a few other private schools. I mentioned those because they were distributed and the best known. Mr. GIAIMO. Do you think you could file a list with the committee of the private schools that are? Mr. MORTON. Yes; I would be glad to do that. Mr. GIAIMO. Also, I think if you could give us a list of the State universities and the land-grant colleges. Mr. MORTON. I will be glad to file a complete list with you. Mr. GIAIMO. So we will have a complete listing of it. I have no further questions. MEMBER INSTITUTIONS OF NATIONAL UNIVERSITY EXTENSION ASSOCIATION-Con. University of Alabama, University, Ala. Indiana University, Bloomington, Ind. University of Kansas, Lawrence, Kans. University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, University of North Carolina, Chapel University of North Dakota, Grand Ohio University, Athens, Ohio State University of South Dakota, Ver- University of Mississippi, University, University of Texas, Austin, Tex. Montana State University, Missoula, University of New Mexico, Albuquer- State University of New York, Albany, University of Utah, Salt Lake City, University of Virginia, Charlottesville, University of Washington, Seattle, Wayne State University, Detroit, Mich. MEMBERS OF THE AMERICAN ASSOCIATION OF LAND-GRANT COLLEGES AND STATE UNIVERSITIES Ga.2 Alabama Polytechnic Institute, Auburn, Fort Valley State College, Fort Valley, Agricultural, Mechanical and Normal University of California, Berkeley, Los Colorado State University, Fort Collins, University of Connecticut, Storrs, Conn. lanta, Ga. University Hawaii of Hawaii, Honolulu, University of Idaho, Moscow, Idaho Kansas State University, Manhattan, University of Kentucky, Lexington, Ky. State University, Baton Maryland State College, Princess Anne, MEMBERS OF THE AMERICAN ASSOCIATION OF LAND-GRANT COLLEGES AND STATE UNIVERSITIES-Continued University of Massachusetts, Amherst, Langston University, Langston, Okla.' Mass. Michigan State University, East Lans- University of Minnesota, Minneapolis, Minn. Mississippi State University, State College, Miss. Alcorn Agricultural and Mechanical University of Missouri, Columbia, Mo. Rutgers University (the State Univer- New Mexico State University, Univer- Cornell University, Ithaca, N.Y. N.Y. North Carolina State College, Raleigh, Agricultural and Technical College of North Carolina, Greensboro, N.C.' Ohio State University, Columbus, Ohio Oregon State College, Corvallis, Oreg. Pennsylvania State University, University Park, Pa. University of Puerto Rico, Rio Piedras, P.R. University of Rhode Island, Kingston, Clemson Agricultural College, Clemson, S.C. South Carolina State College, Orange- South Dakota State College, College University of Tennessee, Knoxville, Tenn. Tennessee Agricultural and Industrial State University, Nashville, Tenn.' Virginia State College, Petersburg, Va.2 West Virginia University, Morgantown, University of Wisconsin, Madison, Wis. 2 Established as land-grant institution for Negroes. Mr. DANIELS. Mr. Morton, with reference to television programs, have you given any consideration as to the planning of courses in your particular State, and how that program would be developed? Mr. MORTON. Of course. We have been working on that for about 4 years, Mr. Daniels. Inside our institution we have a committee which is made up of faculty members distributed throughout the university, who meet regularly and work on that problem as far as the university is concerned. Now, we also, as was intimated in my remarks awhile ago, provide a good many services for the public high schools of the State and we have a statewide committee made up of people from the two institutions that provide most of the programs, the university and the agricultural college, and the State department of education, which is the other governing group in that pattern. They have met regularly and laid the plans and formulated the budget for that program. For the last 3 years, the budget for that program has been right at $100,000 a year. Mr. DANIELS. What fields or subject matters would you apply it in? Mr. MORTON. Mathematics, the sciences, and modern languages, primarily. Mr. DANIELS. Would full credits be given? Mr. MORTON. No; these are high school courses. |