derstood. Impressed as I am with those feelings, and unprepared for the decisive vote which is of. ferred in the direct negative, or affirmative of the propositions before the House, I move that the other orders of the day be now read.

ftances when the government in one point had given up, yet the charges were met boldly, and directly negatived. He wished that, on the present occasion, minifters might either be acquitted or condemned. He was sure, from what he knew of his right hon. friend, that his motives in bringing forward a previous queftion were pure and upright, but ministers could not acquiesce in the discredit of a suspended censure. If it were the desire of minifters to retain their places at all hazards, they might accept the compromise which had been offered, but he could say for himself and his colleagues, that they had no desire to remain in office longer than they could be useful to their country. If he felt himself reduced to that situation in which he could not serve it with advantage, he would carry the seals to the feet of his gracious Sovereign, and intreat him to appoint a successor more worthy. It was that they might not remain in office discredited, and useless, that he muft oppose the previous question; for he could not think of remaining an hour in office after having forfeited the confidence of the House and the good opinion of the country.

MR. CANNING declared, that he rose in discharge of a solemn duty with feelings scarcely inferior to those so creditably manifefted by his noble friend, For the firft time in his life he was by an over-ruling sense of duty to vote differently from his right hon. friend. He was so far agreed with his noble friend as to give a vote that went to decide the case at once; he felt himself bound to give him that explicit answer. After the ample manner in which the question had been discussed, he merely rose to express the ground of his vote, fearful that a silent vote might be liable to misconstruction. He had often expressed his opinion of his Majesty's government which the pa pers now before the House most fully confirmed, and as to the first point, shewed clearly that the ftatesman-like way. As to the second resolution, that his Majesty's minifters had with-held informa tion to Parliament, and even practised a delusion upon it, relative to the discussions with France, this, he conceived, ftrictly proved, as Parliament

LORD HAWKESBURY. He said, that never before had he risen in Parliament with such feelings as those that now oppressed him. With every wish to do juftice to the feelings of his right hon. friend, in making the motion with which he had concluded his speech, he and his colleague should be shrinking from their duty to themselves, if they could accept the compromise offered, between a direct censure and a total acquittal. A charge of crimination founded upon papers laid on the table, had been brought forward. He asked, if there was an inftance in which propositions founded on such documents and involving the conduct of ministers had not been met either with a direct negative or affirmative? A motion of inquiry might be got rid of by a previous queftion; but when a direct charge was made, grounded on facts, rising out of public documents, a previous question was not the fit way of disposing of the subject. No man was more ready than he was to acknowledge the prerogative of the Crown to choose its minifters; but on the other hand, minifters were responsible to Parliament for the exercise of their functions, and when Parliament saw sufficient grounds of censure they ought to ftate it, and then minifters, no longer able usefully to serve the public, ought to retire. Independent of private considerations, he must contend that the credit of the government ought to be maintained, particularly at such a crisis as the present. But he had no difficulty in saying, that those who wished to deftroy the administration, ought to vote for the resolutions because that was their obvious tendency, while the vote which his right hon. friend had proposed, would have the effect to discre it government, to leave them discredited, in posses-negotiation was very far from being managed in a sion of unctions which they could not exercise with honour to themselves nor advantage to the public. His right hon. friend (Mr. Pitt) had declined going into details. He wished, however, that he had afforded some details, that he had pointed out those parts of the conduct of minis-bad been taught to expect security, when governters which he could not approve, that they might have an opportunity of meeting any charge, or explaining what was deemed exceptionable. It was possible that in a long, and arduous course of conduct, some points might be liable to objection. In a country like this, however, he always considered it to be the fair principle, both of support and of opposition to minifters, that those who agreed or disagreed with them should do so on a general system. It was not to be expected that all should approve every particular point. They were to overlook minor differences for the sake of giving effect to the general scheme of measures and conduct which they approved. These he had always understood, where the general principles, and he regretted that Mr. Pitt had not made up his mind to act upon them. He asked whether, after surveying the conduct of ministers during a period of unexampled difficulty, he was not now pre. pared to say yes, or no, directly to a motion of censure?-On the Russian armament, he well remembered that his right hon. friend and himself had not thought it sufficient to get rid of a motion of censure by a previous question, but in circum

|

ment knew the peace, of which they boafted, was crumbling into picces. He wished the House to consider the great injury this species of imposition was to every class of society; it had, by the excess of disappointment, rendered them less adequate to act up to the exigency of their present arduous situation. Hence he was prepared to say, in the language of the resolution, that the conduct of government was such as he explicitly condemned. He thought, that they had neglected many opportunities of resifting, with firmness and effect, the insults and aggressions of France. He differed from the right hon. gent. on the floor (Mr. Addington), and would not think that any extraordinary allowance was to be made to a lawless Usurper. A spirited and timely opposition to his unjust views might, on the contrary, have taught him a different lesson. In another point he differed from that Gent. namely, that the evils of war could never come too late. He, on the contrary, thought that permission in many cases operated as an invitation to proceed, and that if the insult and aggressions of Buonaparté had been properly resisted in the first instance, we now

was excellently described in those lines of Pope applied to Addison, beginning,

"Willing to wound, and yet afraid to strike."

EARL MINTO Supported the resolutions.-As an accurate report of his Lordship's eloquent speech has been published, it is thought unnecessary to attempt any abridgement of it here.

EARL GROSVENOR thought the resolutions could not be for a moment entertained by the House, after the decided vote in favour of ministers given on a former evening. He was anxious that the noble lord who brought them forward should consent to their being withdrawn. He vindicated the whole of the conduct of ministers, which he thought deserving of the confidence of parliament and the country.

vigour and energy, to an honourable and successful

termination.

LORD HOBART assured the House that the army had been no where reduced where it could possibly be avoided. Every body was aware that the militia must necessarily be reduced on the conclusion of articles of peace; the period of the fencibles' service also terminated with the war. The service of many of the army was also at an end with the war; but as many as could be retained, by giving them a high bounty, were retained. As to the orders and counterorders which some noble lords had noticed in such terms of severity, the House would please to observe that it was not a partial or incomplete measure confined to only one or two places; the same sort of orders and counter-orders were sent out to every island in the West Indies, as well as to the Cape. If Austria or the other great continental powers did not think fit to interfere, to check the ambition of the First Consul after the signing of the treaty of Amiens, he did not think that we should single handed con

LORD BOLTON said, that though in some parts of the conduct of ministers he had doubts of its propriety, yet on the whole he felt himself inclined to give it his general approbation. He rejoiced that the French government had not accepted of the proposi-tend about the Cape; and the answers received from tions of ministers relative to Malta. Fortunately it was now in our possession, and he trusted it never would be relinquished.

LORD WARWICK, though he greatly approved of the spirit of the resolution, wished the noble earl to withdraw his motion, as under the present circumstances he thought the discussion could not be productive of advantage to the country.

other courts might be deemed a sufficient reason for ministers altering their conduct. The Cape had last war cost 24 millions, which was more than its value could be fairly estimated at for that period. He had also the best naval authority for stating, that it was not absolutely necessary to stop at the Cape in going to the East Indies, and coming back, it was only necessary, in case of tempestuous weather. It had been stated, on the authority of rumour, in another place, that he had refused to have any conference THE EARL OF SCARBOROUGH defended the conduct with the Maltese deputies in his office. This he poof the late administration, which he thought had sitively denied, and assured the House that he had saved every thing valuable in this world from destruc-two nieetings with those Gentlemen upon the affairs tion. As for the measures of the present ministers they had been such as he could by no means approve.

LORD DE DUNSTANVILLE called the attention of their lordships to the treaty of Amiens, (which he now considered as dead and buried), to the unfavourable circumstances under which it was made. If peace had not then been made, the tables of both Houses of parliament would have been covered with petitions, which would lead to the conclusion of peace under still more unfavourable circumstances. He vindicated the conduct of ministers during the late negotiation, for which, instead of censure, he deemed them intitled to the thanks of the House.

THE EARL OF CARYSFORT censured ministers for most of the prominent parts of their conduct; he condemned the late pacification, and contrasted the situation of the country prior to that period, in point of acquired territory and extensive force, with its present situation. He blamed ministers for their want of decision and vigour, and thought their conduct justified the resolutions.

THE EARL OF DARNLEY expressed his acquiescence with what had fallen from a royal Duke, as to the misconduct of the late ministers with respect to the war. He did not in every point approve of the conduct of the present ministers, and alluded to some where he thought they might have acted better, but thought them upon the whole entitled to confidence; and as they appeared to possess the confidence of the Sovereign, he hoped they would profit by their recent experience, and conduct the war with spirit,

of their unhappy country.

LORD GRENVILLE stated, that the present charge was entirely the reverse of that adopted by other noble lords. They were of opinion that ministers were culpable for not going to war sooner, he charged them with criminality in not avoiding the war altogether. He then went over the different grounds of a difference of sentiment which had been urged on each side of the question. If it could be clearly proved, however, that ministers had not been guilty of neglecting to accept the mediation of Russia, or any other power pacifically inclined, he should think them entitled to a verdict of acquittal. But, if on the other hand, it was proved to the satisfaction of the House that such mediation had ben offered, and that they had neglected to accept the offer, they were subject to a most awful responsibility. An unoffi cial paper, most certainly, but to which he had every reason to give credit, had asserted that such an offer had been made, but that," one of the contracting parties had with-held their assent." He could not. suppose-it was not by any means probable, that France was this contracting power; England there fore must be the power which refused. A noble id. opposite had referred to the peace of 1763, and con trassted it with the navy we had now at our command. That could not, on mature deliberation, be considered a fair mode of comparison; we should take into the account the relative and general situation of Europe, and then draw a balance of their respetive force. The imprisonument of captain d'Auvergne: the insolent declaration of the French, that they would consider the Alien Act as an infraction of the treaty; the non-fulfilment of the second article,

estimates that were not presented to the House at the commencement of the sessions. They were the usual estimates for supplementary officers, pensioners at the Royal Hospitals at Chelsea and Kilmainham, the Royal Military College, and the Military Asylum. These estimates could not be presented be

which respects the payment of money for the maintenance of prisoners, and against which no remonstrance had been made by our ministers; at least no such remonstrance appeared from the papers on their lordships' table. The first remonstrance was on the 14th of Nov., which was after the surrender of the Cape, and that was about the French troops occupy-fore, because the whole of the expense could not be ing Holland, though it was a matter of general notoriety that their keeping possession of Holland with an armed force was not then any thing novel in the eyes of Europe. The charge which he most positively brought against ministers was that of a breach of faith with Austria, a breach of faith with Russia and Prussia, and above all a breach of faith with France. He charged ministers with deceiving France, and with deceiving our allies, under the idea of fulfilling an article which they knew it was impossible to be fulfilled. It was now said that, if Sebastiani had not made his report, we should not now be at war. At first satisfaction for what had passed was demanded, and then security for the future, and their they rested their ultimatum. All this it appeared obvious to his mind, might have been obviated by the acceptance of proffered mediation.

assertained until the seven Garrison Battalions wer complete. The second head of estimates related to some augmentation that had been ordered in the regular forces, the militia and supplementary militia, and to some further expenses which had taken place in the Barrack Department. These estimates which related to the supplementary officers, pensioners at Chelsea and Kilmainham, &c. were the same as before. The expense of the Royal Military College was greater than that of last year, it amounted to 8110]. This increase was owing to a second company of Cadets being formed. This institution being found to answer so well all the purposes for which it was formed, it had been thought expedient to add a second company of Cadets. Any body who considered fairly the nature of this institution, would, he was sure, agree with him, that it was an expense well laid out on the part of the public. He trusted that it was an institution that would be constantly kept up, as it afforded to young men destined for the army, better means of instructions than they could obtain in this country: he hoped also, that it would always be managed with economy, and without any partiality or favour. He now came to the Royal Mi litary Asylum; for this service he should move for a sum of 31,000 1. of this sum 21,000 l. was to be applied to complete the building. He was sorry to say, that the buildings which were completed, cost more than had been originally estimated, though every attempt had been made to make the estimates as accurate as possible.-This increase of the expense beyond the estimate arose partly from this circumstance, viz. that soon after the estimate was formed the dispute with the Northern Powers took place, which caused a great increase in the price of many of the articles used in the building-This, however, would he hoped be the whole expense of the building, and he should only ask 10,000l. for fitting up the rooms, &c. He came now to the second head of estimates, viz. those which related to the augmenta

THE LORD CHANCELLOR justified the conduct of ministers on all the points, which he called the counts of an indictment preferred against them. As to the cessions by the treaty of Amiens, Parliament and the country had approved the peace, and the late ministers, by their negotiation at Lisle, declared their opinion respecting the necessity of peace. As to the Italian Republic, Piedmont and Parma, the fate of these countries was decided before the treaty of Amiens, and therefore could not have furnished a ground of war. As to Swisserland, this was certainly the only country which manifested a strong feeling for its oppression, and appeared disposed to resist it; but the continental powers being indifferent, it was not possible for us to save Swisserland. As to the conduct of ministers respecting the Cape, the other conquests had been restored, and the Cape of Good Hope alone was certainly not worth a war; even if it was worth a war, it appeared doubtful at that time whether it also had not been surrendered. Under these circumstances, if we were disposed to go to war singly, there were no advantages to be gained. The government where therefore prepared to give uption of the forces.-The augmentation which had Malta according to the treaty, when the report of Sebastiani was published, developing such projects, that government thought it necessary to retain Malta. He concluded by an appeal to the House and the country for a vigorous prosecution of the contest into which we were forced by the hostile conduct of France.

been ordered was not to a very considerable extent, for the committee would recollect that when the army was voted in December last, it was upon an unusually high establishment, the highest that ever was proposed in time of peace. It was thought that completing the army by a small augmentation would be sufficient as the army voted was 130,000 men.-The augmentation that would take place, would be EARL SPENCER said, that all he had heard did but principally in the cavalry. The committee would confirm him in his opinion of the necessity of the re-recollect, that by the plan which he proposed in Desolutions, He supported the arguments of lord Grenville in favour of them, and condemned ministers as grossly inattentive to their duty, and as having sacrificed the honour and the dignity of the country.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

Monday, June 6. (Min. 874.)

[ARMY ESTIMATES.]-THE SECRETARY AT WAR said, that the remaining army estimates, consisted of two parts:-One of them related to those

cember last, ten men per troop of the cavalry were to remain dismounted; those men were now to be mounted, and their place to be supplied with recruits; this would make 70 men per troop. There was also to be an augmentation in the foot-guards. The next augmentation arose from a regulation which had been adopted of abolishing the field-officers having com panies; in consequence of which there would be three additional captains in each regiment. He would not now enter into any arguments upon the propriety of this regulation, he would only say, that it was one that met with the approbation of the most experienced officers of the army; by this plan the situation of captain-lieutenant would be abolished, and þe

would of course have one of the three com- | whom they already had. In fact, desertion, it panies, another of the companies was to be was well known, had become a sort of trade. given to a captain on half pay; and the senior Men got a live hood by passing from corps to Heutenant was to have the third company on corps, and performing, what they called, the condition of raising 30 men, and the senior grand tour. If, at the end of the tour the man Ensign to succeed him on raising 10 men. The remained in the service, the only cffect of all expence of this measure would be about these bounties was, that you had obtained a sole 35,000l. viz. 26,000 for Great Britain, and 9000 dier in the milua or fencibles, in exchange for for Ireland. The greatest part of the ex- a soldier in the regular army. One reason, perpence of these estimates arose from the militia, haps, for this anxiety for augmenting the mili it amount to a sum of 1,267,000l. for Great tia, was, that the money with which they were Britain, and 480,4971. for Ireland. Contin- levied, did not come in the shape of a direct tax, gencies, 13,3451. cloathing, 143,8911. The mi-and therefore, it was thought, would pass withlitia of Great Britain would amount to 60,893, out notice. But this was a poor and criminal supplementary militia 24,000, making (exclu- policy. The money, though not raised avowedsive of officers, non-commissioned officers, &c.) ¡y by Parliament, was equally drawn from the the number of rank and file above 73,000 men. pockets of the people. The man who paid this The militia of Ireland, amounted to 18,000 men, tax for procuring a militia-man, was less able, making altogether above 90,000 men. And he as well as less willing to pay other taxes. The was happy to say, that a very short time indeed nation equally paid the only difference was, would elapse before they were all embodied and that they paid to a greater amount, and in a far fit for service. The additional expense for the more incommodious manner. His general obsupplementary militia, would amount to416,0001.jection, however, to the measure was, that it the additional expence of the barrack depart- would create a militia and not an army. This ment 15,000. making the total expense for was an universal objection, applicable to all Great Britatn, 2,540,000l. and for Ireland, times, though varying in its force, according to 570,0001. being altogether, 3,110,000l. circumstances, and according to the nature of the war in which we might happen to be enMR.WINDHAM said, that he had not objec-gaged. It was the duty of those entrusted with tion to any of the details which the right hon. the government of a country, in the first place, gent. had gone into except one, which appeared to form in their own minds, some idea of the to be calculated to revive the practice of raising nature of the war which they were to carry on, men for the rank, and which was productive of and then to regulate the public force accordsuch inconvenience that he should always object ingly. When this was done, it was easy to to it. It was resorted to in time of necessity, form a notion of the nature of a war which a when the inconvenience which it was calculated government had in view, from the nature of to produce was not foreseen; but he should be the establishment which they proposed to make. sorry to see it revived again. His object in ri- He was afraid, however, that the inference in sing, was not so much to comment upon the de- this case, was not a very sure one. It looked tails which had been laid before the House, as as if the government had gone into the war, to take the opportunity, which the army esti- without at all considering the nature of it, and, mates always afforded, of making some obser- in truth, without plan of any sort. After envations upon the war and the general state of deavouring to preserve peace as long as they the country. The first subject upon which he could, and longer than they ought, they were should make any observations was one upon forced into war, when all their means of conwhich he had touched on a former occasion: hecession and submission were exhausted, and meant, the propriety of having so large a part when no option was left; and finding themof our force to consist of militia. He thought selves in that situation, they seemed to have the scale upon which it was proposed to form the no idea of doing any thing but what they undermilitary force was wrong, because the popula- stood to have been usual on such occasions, and tion of the country was such, that it would not what the situation itself, indeed, necessarily afford, at once, a large militia and a large army. forced upon them. They issued press-warrants, In fact, the system pursued of late years, if it they offered bounties, they sent out recruiting did not "suckle armies and dry-nurse the land," parties, they put ships in commission, they did must at least, be said to suckle the militia and whatever they were told was regular and dry-nurse the army. If such large bounties were proper. It was indeed curious to hear the enugiven to men who engaged only for a few years, meration of their services in these respects, and for home-service, how was it to be supposed, and the list of articles for which they took that for a small bounty men would be induced credit. These extended back, beyond the period to enter the army, to serve for life and in every when war was become inevitable. "Did we quarter of the globe! The army, in such a not," said the hon. Gent., " in the midst of state of things, must not only stand still, it must profound peace, and in a few months after go backwards, for it was not to be conceived," signing a definitive treaty, call upon the that, with these high bribes, desertion would country for two successive augmentations of not become general: so that the army would," army and navy? Afterwards, when the not only get no new men, but lose many of those" danger became more pressing, and we were