regular "maintenance of effort." Chrysler Corp. at its own expense in 1965 provided in excess of 1.5 million man-hours of training for its regular apprentices. A company and its community are normally geared to provide the maintenance of continuity of skills for replacement purposes. Normal apprentice ratios and local educational facilities are traditionally geared accordingly. When needs rise above traditional numbers, the assistance provided by MDTA is invaluable in affording the necessary stimulus to undertake the training activities essential to meet these needs. Our experience to date has uncovered several problem areas, however, some of which may deserve attention by this subcommittee. I would like to deviate from the text for a moment and mention when I was called and asked to testify, I was told the committee would like to know what was right and what was wrong with the act. We find nothing wrong with the act, and I do not wish to have the following part of my testimony construed as detrimental or negative. These are problems that arise in anything that is complex and of the magnitude we are talking about. Because a large corporation and Government are complex organizations, we are bound to have many complexities, and I would like to be sure you understand that we are not being derogatory in any manner. We are only pointing up some of the little problems that are involved. (1) Conflicts have arisen in various States concerning differences in Federal training regulations and State training regulations. For example, our automotive technician training program, approved by the U.S. Department of Labor, is a 3-year apprenticeship program operating in many States. However, some of those States having a State bureau of apprenticeship training require a 4-year term and do not permit deviations. In addition, some have State advisory committees that must approve specific programs even though they have been approved nationally by the U.S. Department of Labor, Bureau of Apprenticeship and Training. These conflicts make it difficult to set up programs with any degree of speed and increase the length of time before training can start. (2) The paperwork involved in contracting large programs involving 15 or 16 projects is almost prohibitive. We recognize that the contracting procedure is designed primarily for small businesses having few trainees or few programs. Streamlining the amount of paperwork required is recommended. We do not wish to make a criticism and not offer a solution to the problem. Consequently, we have presented to the Department of Labor a 2-page form that eliminates approximately 30 pages of these contracts. Senator KENNEDY of Massachusetts. Pardon me, Mr. Landis. We have the testimony of Secretary Wirtz that says that the Department. of Labor is now using a two-page form. This new procedure has been in operation for a relatively short time. Are you aware of that new form? Mr. LANDIS. I was not aware of that. We had presented a suggested form. Senator KENNEDY of Massachusetts. Perhaps they have taken your advice. Mr. LANDIS. Well, we are hopeful. As I say, I can understand their position. I know that they must have complete records. The next point: (3) The reporting procedure of trainees on roll, again, appears to be geared to smaller, single-plant programs having few trainees on roll. Streamlining this procedure for larger, multiplant companies is strongly recommended. Again, we have made a recommendation to the Department of Labor using our computer setup, and they have accepted this as a record of reporting. I might point out here that in the original state you had to show the days of absence of an apprentice by the month. Using the computer, you report the actual hours that they work in the month. This is a positive approach to showing the number of hours apprentices work rather than the number of days they were absent, and it fits in much better into our particular payroll and reporting system. I think this is true for most large companies. The next point: (4) Reduction of the time necessary to approve a program would allow companies to commence training sooner. There are many levels that must review a project request and so it is understandable that this takes time. Because we are extremely interested in getting these programs underway, perhaps we become slightly, shall we say-well, we are anxious, to say the least. The next point: (5) Automatically making the approved date the same as the date of the declaration of interest form would assist companies in hiring trainees prior to the date the program actually begins on-the-job operations, thus eliminating the present hiring time lag. When you present the declaration of interest, your whole project is looked at and reviewed by the Department of Labor and they at that time can tell you whether you meet all of the qualifications for the program to be acceptable. It is our point here that that starting date gives us leadtime to get these people hired. You do not put a thousand employees on the payroll in 1 day. Then, in summary, our experience at Chrysler with on-the-job training programs under MDTA has been most satisfactory. The staffs of the Bureau of Apprenticeship and Training of the U.S. Department of Labor and the Michigan Employment Security Commission as well as many local educators have been most helpful and dedicated in making this program work effectively and efficiently. Senator KENNEDY of Massachusetts. What is the average length of training that you give to the workers at Chrysler that participate in this program? Mr. LANDIS. You are speaking in the apprenticeship area? Mr. LANDIS. It is a 4-year program, The apprentices are registered with the U.S. Department of Labor under the Bureau of Apprenticeship and Training. They usually receive a total of 8,000 hours; 672 of those 8,000 hours are in related training using community colleges and regular educational institutions for the academic portion of their training. Senator KENNEDY of Massachusetts. What does it cost Chrysler to train these people? Mr. LANDIS. The ratio of money that we spend is about 1 to 9. In other words, for every dollar that would go in that first year for assisting in an apprenticeship program, the company would be spending approximately $9 at the same time. Then, of course, the additional 3 years are completely financed by the corporation. Senator KENNEDY of Massachusetts. Besides the apprenticeship training program, what other programs do you have? Mr. LANDIS. Well, in the area of preemployment training we have had extensive programs under MDTA, and if you would like me to quickly run down them, I will be pleased to do so. We started out originally in 1964 under MDTA with an arc welders training program. We started with 286 of our own employees who were upgraded after their training in this trade. Then we took 204 unemployed persons under the same kind of a program, and they were hired after satisfactorily completing training in arc welding. Our next experience was in May of 1964 when we got into the area of power-sewing-machine operators. This is the area where they sew on upholstery on cars with radial sewing and welding on the seats. Under this program we hired 120, and these happened to be women. We have hired 105 machine operators who were trained in the various high schools under this MDTA. We set up two programs under MDTA for body drafting and clay modeling. We had the honor of having Vice President Humphrey visit the clay modeling school a couple of weeks ago, and he was extremely pleased with seeing 23 boys who had artistic talents and able to get training for employment where their talents are used. So far, out of that school which primarily was to operate for 1,800 hours, we have already hired 11 of these boys because they have advanced so rapidly, and Ford Motor Co. has taken 5. Thus, 16 out of the 23 have already been employed, and the others will be taken on as soon as they graduate. Senator KENNEDY of Massachusetts. How did they select those 23 boys? Mr. LANDIS. There is a novel way of selection. We formed a committee of representatives from the Michigan Employment Security Commission, Highland Park College this is under their auspices and Chrysler stylists from our styling studios. We brought the boys in for interview after screening the records of the Michigan Employment Security Commission where the boys showed they had artistic talent. We brought our stylists in and we gave the boys 5 pounds of modeling clay, which is very similar to clay that is used by children when they build things, and a little plastic automobile. You may have seen replicas of regular models. We sent the boys home for a week after some preliminary discussion and explanation of how to build a model by our stylists, and they went home and prepared a clay model. These boys were then selected on the basis of talent demonstrated by the models they brought in. Now, this is a novel way to approach selection. But you see, we had Government, we had the educators, we had the experts from business, all together working as a committee to do this selection. Senator KENNEDY of Massachusetts. These are rather exceptional boys, are they not? Mr. LANDIS. They are exceptional in the fact they have art talent. These boys are either unemployed, or they were boys that were working in subminor jobs, less than their potential. They would never have had the opportunity to get into their true field had this not been brought about. So, we feel highly elated that here were boys that were underemployed or unemployed who were given an opportunity to use their talents. Senator KENNEDY of Massachusetts. What about the arc welders, your previous program? How were they selected? Mr. LANDIS. Well, there were 286 that were in our company whom we solicited from the standpoint of upgrading their skills. They went out and were taught arc welding because it is a little higher paying job. The unemployed, the 204, were selected through the Michigan Employment Security Commission, and were given the opportunity to take this training. Then we hired them upon completion of the program. We have other programs that we do our own property. We are now in the process of developing mobile training units. You take the training to the people. We develop special courses-electronics, hydraulics, pneumatics, introduction to computers, this sort of thing, all leading to the maintenance of numerically controlled employment and then present them at many plant locations in our training bases. Senator KENNEDY of Massachusetts. Now, the Federal Government supplies the funds, as you point out, for the first year of training. What kind of increase would you anticipate if the funds were available for the first 2 years of training? How would you expand the apprenticeship programs, on-the-job training programs? Does Federal support of OJT stimulate Chrysler Corp. to develop these programs. And if so, how much of an incentive is it? Mr. LANDIS. I cannot see that the additional year has any relative effect. Senator KENNEDY of Massachusetts. In other words, would you be doing this program with On-the-Job Training Act or not? Mr. LANDIS. Are you saying that if MDTA were not involved, would we be doing training anyway? Senator KENNEDY of Massachusetts. Right. Mr. LANDIS. I do not believe we would be doing it to the same extent. As I mentioned in the paper, I think we would be getting into 56-057-66-12 more specialized training. As an example, you take a diemaker. With the stimulant of MDTA we are able to give them broad training which otherwise we probably would limit to knowledge about operating one machine in the die shop, one specific machine. Senator KENNEDY of Massachusetts. I am trying to evaluate the incentive aspect of the on-the-job training and MDTA as far as Chrysler is concerned. If the Federal Government doubled its participation, it seems as if there would be little increase in the activity of the Chrysler Corp. And if we decreased participation it wouldn't seem to have a great deal of effect on your program. At least this would be my conclusion from your remarks. Would that be an inaccurate observation on my part, and if so, could you be somewhat more specific in the kind of encouragement that on-thejob training programs provide as far as the Chrysler Corp. is concerned? Mr. LANDIS. The evidence is here, for example, that we have 350 additional apprentices under MDTÁ; we went to the international union and got them to negotiate with us to lower the ratio so that it would be possible to put these people on, and I do not think that if we had not had the stimulant of MDTA, that this probably would have happened. Senator KENNEDY of Massachusetts. How can you-have you any specific recommendations as to ways by which the number of trainees could be expanded with Federal participation? Mr. LANDIS. We have mentioned in this paper what we call a skill improvement program, which essentially is doing the upgrading of present employees relatively the same as you do in apprenticeship. And this could be expanded to much greater numbers. Our program calls for these people to get training of 2 years, only one of which we are talking to the Government about as far as any financial assistance is concerned, and it would be our responsibility the second year to carry the program on our own. Senator KENNEDY of Massachusetts. Let me ask you this: Is there a significant need for upgrading skills in Chrysler today? Mr. LANDIS. We feel strongly about this because you should upgrade the skills of your present work force and place the unemployed on the lower positions that have been vacated, because this is-well, it is just the logical approach to the problem. Senator KENNEDY of Massachusetts. Have you made any estimate on the present number of skilled jobs now which are going vacant in Chrysler because there are not sufficiently skilled people, even though there might be a pool of unemployment personnel? Mr. LANDIS. I am not in a position to give you that information. We will be glad to send you the statistics on this. Senator KENNEDY of Massachusetts. It might be helpful. (The statistics referred to follow :) |