JOURNAL of the PROCEEDINGS of the SIXTH SESSION of the HOUSE OF LORD S. MONDAY, NOV. 23. THE Royal Affent was given, by FRIDAY, NOV. 27. Mr. Wakeman's Divorce Bill was TUESDAY, DEC. I. The Royal Affent was given by Lord Albemarle moved, that the WEDNESDAY, DEC. 2. The Order of the day being read, direct their Lordships attention to a book lately published, and, as was generally fufpected, from the pen of a Gentleman who had been understood to be connected with, and fupported by Government, which contained doctrines directly hoftile to the fpirit of our Conftitution, and tending to alienate the minds of the people from their affection to it. As this was no Party question, no fubject of difcuffion, for he was fure no man in that Houfe would rife to defend the doctrines it inculcated, he hoped, for once at least, their Lordships might come to an unanimous vote upon it. His Lordship then moved, That the work contained a fcandalous and fedi- tious Libel, &c. and a breach of the Lord Grenville faid, that the House of Commons had already come to a de- . words of the Refolution in that cafe. Lord Spencer declared, that he was The Houfe was then cleared for the The Chancellor of the Exchequer brought up the Bill" to prevent Sedi - tious Meetings and Affemblics." The Bill was read a first time, after Lord Grenville moved, That the Bill be printed, and, if ready, that it be read a fecond time on Wednesday Lord Grenville brought a Meffage from his Majefty, which was the fame as prefented to the Houfe of Commons the preceding day. He moved, That the Meffage fhould be taken into con- Previous to the order for the second arm arm of Power had been ftretched to crush for his disapprobation of thofe Bills, and who was to be difmiffed from his place of Dean of Faculty, which he had filled for years. Such was the confequence of the overgrown influ ence of the Crown. And though Minifters chuckled at the circunftance, he would have them reflect, though their influence extended from the highest characters down to watchmen and chimney-fweepers, yet the Nation was not to be duped by their defigns. The Order of the Day being read for the fecond reading of the Bill for preventing Seditious Meetings, Lord Grenville called their Lordships' attention to thofe circumftances which the Houfe had already decided were fufficient to justify fome meafures like the prefent. This, he admitted, was connected with the former bill, and was one fyftem of measures. It had often been recognized, that there exifted in the country a Party of men who were determined to destroy our Constitution. They had met fome check, and received what was deemed fufficient to fhew them the error of their conduct; but, inftead of altering their conduct, they with increased rancour militated against our Conftitution, and fought to destroy it, even to its very foundation. A debate then enfued, which lafted till three o'clock in the morning; but as it confifted of a recapitulation of the fame arguments for and against the Bill, which were forepeatedly urged during the debates in the Houfe of Commons, we do not feel ourfelves called on to report it at length. The Earl of Derby, the Duke of Norfolk, the Marquis of Lanfdowne, HOUSE OF COMMONS. TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 17. ENERAL M'Leod rofe to make a motion relative to the number of men employed in the army, previous to the Eftimates being laid before the House; it was impoffible to form any idea of the proper estimates until this was done; he therefore meant to move, that an ac. curate account, not only of all the regular military, feamen, and marines, be laid before that Houfe, but alfo of all volunteers, yeomanry, &c. On being defired by the Speaker to name a day for his Motion, he fixed on Friday, and if the papers could not be produced on that day, he would agree to its being deferred until a future day. Mr. Pitt moved the Order of the Day for the fecond reading of the Bill, intitled "An Act to fupprefs Seditious Meetings and Societies." The Solicitor General (Sir John Mitford) rofe. He faid that the Bill now pending had been already fo much the fubject of converfation and mifreprefentation, that it became neceffary to enter mere fully into an explanation of its principles: before the Bill fhould be read a fecond time, he would take the liberty of ftating the objects it had in view. The principle of this Bill was what he had stated it before to be, viz. to prevent the right of petitioning from being abused, and that it might lay other reftrictions on those principles which were dangerous to civil libertythefe were the first objects of this Bill. The fecond object was, to prevent a repetition of thofe public meetings which threatened fo much danger to the Conftitution, and to prevent alio individuals from holding private meetings for their own private purposes, fuch as political lectures, debating clubs, &c. Mr. Erskine commenced his obfer. vations upon the Bill by faying, that it did not take away the right of meeting publicly, it only put fome neceffary reftrictions upon them. What! would it be faid, that the People's right remained entire, when they must be indebted for the exercife of it to a Lord Lieutenant, to a man chofen by, and removeable at the pleafure of the King? Gentlemen had talked of precedents: was there any thing in the Bill of Rights which stated the people of England might petition, provided they got leave from a Lord Lieutenant? Upon what principle was it that the Judges of England were made independent of the Crown? Because the rights of the people could not be confidered fafe in the hands of men who looked to the Crown alone for their continuance in office; and yet they muft not even petition, without a Lord Lieutenant thould condefcend to give them leave, But all these things were now forgotten;-all the leffons we had learned from the wisdom and fpirit of our ancestors were forgotten;-the alarm was now fo great, that new principles and doctrines were to be introdu. ced, and the Conftitution was to be erected on a new bafis, Having taken a fhort view of the Laws now in force, Mr, Erskine contended they were fufficient for the purpofe of preventing Sedition, He concluded with again recommending lenient meafures, and that the people fhould be courted back to their duty, if they had erred, and not be goaded and infulted with fuch Bills as thcfe. Mr. Milbanke faid a few words against the Bill. Mr. Anftruther faid, Parliament had at all times met tumults with its interference, and if this was the first Bill of the kind, it was because it was the first cafe of the kind which had ever occurred to demand it. But the Hon, Gentleman had faid, that there were yer no proofs of fedition fufficient to ground this Bill, Did the Hon. Gen tleman mean that the House should wait till there was a Civil War, and the Conftitution was overthrown? Should they defer the application of a remedy till the mifchief was incura. bly done, and till they would be without the power, not only of applying a remedy, but even of debating upon it ? Was it poffible that the Houfe could forget the tranfactions of the Correfponding Society? that thev formaily decided not to petition Parlia ment-that they reprefented the Government and Conftitution but as impofitions and grievances on the public that they were chiefly employed in diffeminating writings fubversive of both and that, on the murder of Louis the Sixteenth, they addreffed the National Convention, faying, that that unhappy country had arrived at that crifis, in which they could properly ad drefs them. Had nothing paffed fince? When Gentlemen heard of the intended Meeting at Copenhagen Houfe, did they not feel fome degree of affright ap it? Did they not fear that the evening of that day might fet London in flames? And when, on the other hand, they heard the Meeting had fepirated quietly, were they not much rejoiced? It was immediately however given out, that their Petition was to be prefented to the King as he was going to Parliament, The confequence of that report was a numerous croud, and the confequence of that again the attack upon the King. Having fhewn the neceffity of fome law being made, the next queftion was, Whether the law now offered was fuitable to the cafe? Of this he was clear, for it only prevented the abufe, and not the power of petitioning. And as Lecturing for the purpofe of drawing a livelihood from the diffemination of Sedition was new in the history of the world, he fuppofed no objection could be made to an unprecedented law for reftraining it. On the whole, he would give his affent to the Bill with greater satisfaction than ever he felt on any occafion of the kind, as it would F 2 tend tend to ftop Anarchy and the growth of Jacobin Principles, which threaten deftruction to this country. Lord Mornington delivered a very eloquent and argumentative fpeech in favour of the Bill, observing, that the circumstances which conftituted the neceffity for the prefent meafure, and the applicability and competency of the meafure to the urgency of the cafe, ftruck him fo plainly, he was furprifed at the difference of opinion which arofe upon it. Mr. Sheridan faid, he was of opinion that this measure would create that difaffection and thofe plots, the fuppofed exiftence of which was made the pretext for its adoption. There was nothing which he deprecated more than a Revolution; but he believed it was not impotlible but the People might be driven to fome violent remedy, rendered by circumftances plaufible, if not neceffary. With regard to the London Correfponding Society, he could not join in the clamour that had been raifed against it. He did not doubt but it might contain perfons who had nothing in view but their own intereft, while they appeared to be actuated only by motives of patriotifin. Mr. Dundas faid, that fo far from feeling that the rights, liberty, and happiness of the people of this country would be invaded by the prefent Bill, he felt, and was convinced, that the rights, liberty, and happiness of the people could not be effectuaily preferved to them, if fome fuch remedy as the prefent were not immediately adopted. If fome meafure were not adopted, the Houfe would neglect the fafety of the Constitution; they would not perform their duty; they would not an fwer the expectations of the country. He afferted, that all the good that had ever arifen to this country from Fetitions, was from the Petitions of Corpo. rate Bodies, whofe Rights were not touched by this Bill, He put it to the wifdom of the Houfe, whether, under all the exifting circum. ftances, it was right that any individual fhould have the power of assembling people for any bufinefs he thought proper? Between trufting to the difcretion of individuals on one hand, and the difcretion of the Magiftrate on the other, he could not fee room to hefi tate. Mr. Fox rofe and faid, the fenfe of the people out of doors ought to be at, tended to, and it was their indubitable right to difcufs the expediency of any public act. This alone was adequate to fave the Conftitution-yes, it was the very corner-ftone of the Constitution. He deprecated, in the most pointed language, the invidious diftinction which the Bill made between the higher and the lower orders, of fociety. Property, it was true, was one of the principal objects of Society, and ought to have its weight and place in every State:"but give (said he) property an exclufive privilege and right, as in the prefent cafe, and you will inevitably reduce Society to its elements." He faw the Bill fraught with offenfive provifions, though he was no friend to technical diftinctions. The difcuffing the conduct of public men and public meafures was the foundation of British Freedom; and this the Bili entirely fapped. No one would deny but much corrupt influence exifted in the Lords and Commons; and the liberty of difcuffing and complaining of this was the foul of Liberty, which was loft by the Bill. Mr. Pitt rofe and said, he certainly was not difpofed to detain the Houfe unneceffarily, especially as he had before fpoke pretty largely upon the fubject. If we were ready to imitate the glorious conduct of our ancestors, in the expofure of our lives and fortunes for the defence of our country, furely we must be equally ready to fol low their wifdom in legiflative precau tions; let the fame principle be applied to pafs fome falutary law, which thould have a preventative effect. They, under the preffure of like circumftances, framed new laws to the exigencies of the times. Gentlemen must remember, while even that Bill of Rights, which now was faid to be violated, was freth in their memories, they paffed laws against thofe who fhould by advifed fpeaking or writing, difpute the title of the then poffeffor of the Throne, under no lefs a penalty than that of being guilty of high treafon. He admitted and recognized the principle,that even the lowest and pooreft had a right to affemble to difcufs their grievances, and to petition either the Throne or either of the two Houfes of Parlia. ment, and this right remains, provided public notice of fuch Meeting be first given. Here arofe the question of the prefence of the Magiftrate. His prefence was required to prevent its be coming a Seditious Meeting, under the pretence of confidering grievances. It had been objected to fubmitting this to tre difcretion of a Magiftrate more than the other; but in point of tact, the other was called by a Magiftrate, and under his direction. The fubjecting the latter to the difcretion of a Magiftrate, was allimilating it in its conititution to the other Meeting called oy the Sherif. The other point related to the difperfing fuch Meeting at the difcretion of the Magiftrate. He andreifed himself to the Houte upon a bject which they had often decided--Did they feel the danger of certain Meetings? If they did, they mult agree to the neceflity of fome fuch relation, and it was exercifed as all cher duties, fubject to a responsibility in the execution of it. A Petition was prefented by Lord Palmeriton from Newport in the le of Wight, complaining of the mode cf feiling corn by the fample, and begging this Houle to take the grieVance into confideration.-Referred to the Select Committee. The House refolved itfelf into a Committee of the whole House, on the agh price of corn, Mr. Ryder in the Chair. Mr. Pitt faid, that in confideration of the Report of the Select Committee, it became the principal object to encou age the importation of corn, by feveral bounties, from different parts of the world. A long converfatien now took place, in which Mr. Pitt, Mr. Huffy, Gene. al. Smith, Mr. Lechmere, Mr. Lambten, Sir F. Baring, and Mr. Fox, took a part, after which the Refolutions of the Select Committee were read by the Luairman. Progrefs reported, and leave given to fit further. THURSDAY, NOV. 19. The order of the day being read for the fecond reading of the Bill for the better Security of his Majesty's Perfon and Government, Mr. Fox rofe. He said that he hoped it would not be understood, from his declining to enter into a debate on the fecond reading of the Bill, that he did not mean to perfevere in his oppofition to it in every ftage; he perceived allo that a confiderable number of Members were abfent, who would have an opportunity of debating it more fully when the Motion fhould be made for the Speaker to leave the Chair: he fhould therefore defer faying more on it at prefent. Mr. William Smith faid, that he feit himicif bound in duty to oppofe the Bill in all its ftages, on the ground that it would render the Conftitution lefs valuable to the country at large. He did not mean to go into a debate on it this night, but he would referve himfeif for a future ftage of the bill. The Houfe then divided on the fecond reading: FRIDAY, NOV. 20. General M.Leod moved for a return of all the General or Staff Officers that ferved under the Earl of Moira, whe ther natives or foreigners, up to the first of Auguft laft ;-and for the fame under the Count D'Artois and Prince of Condé, employed in the fervice and pay of his Britannic Majefty which were agreed to. The Houle refolved itself into a Committee of Supply of the whole Houfe on the Army Estimates; Mr. Stanley in the Chair. Mr. Windham (Secretary at War) faid, that the amount of all the forces was 207,000 men, of all defcriptions.. The general refult of the whole was, that the number was lets by 25,000 men than last year, which was a laving of 800,0171. odd. This was what appeared to him; but if anything eife occurred to any Hon. Gentleman, he was ready to give every information in his power. A long and defultory debate now took place between the Oppofition Members and the other fide of the Houfe. |