important-in social and cost conscious terms-as a rail link than as a recreational source.

What are the Committee's immediate needs?

1. For a preliminary study of the easement to determine its feasibility for future rail transport along the route (outlined in sketch A), or along a major portion of this route.

2. For immediate preservation of the easement for transport purposes until such time as it is determined whether use as a rail link is or is not feasible.

Mr. HARRIS. Thank you very much.
Were there any other comments?

Mr. LAWRENCE. I would like to make one comment in reference to what everyone else has said here today.

It is a feeling that we have had for over a year in our county that from discussions of the previous speakers, you notice that everyone says, move it out a little bit further and a little bit further and a little bit further.

Mr. HARRIS. Yes; I indicated to the staff that West Virginia might be a good site.

Mr. LAWRENCE. Right.

Well, we feel like the families of two and three that come to the Bicentennial will find themselves in mass confusion in the District, and he will be in likened confusion when he moves into Alexandria or Arlington. He will not know where to go and where to stop. And we feel like a great number of people are going to say, if you are driving with a camper and other things, go west, because out west of here there is ample ground that is sufficient for your camping needs.

SECURITY

This problem concerns us considerably because we know that if the people come out they will go into the areas of our county; they will park along our roads, and they will drive down through our streams and everything-which we are not against. The only problem we have is policing that, giving them the protection they need, providing the services they need, going behind them and cleaning up, and all of the other things that go along with it. And you know and I know, when they come and if they are frustrated and upset, they have a tendency to kick your dog and drive over the grass

Mr. HARRIS. And shoot your cow?

Mr. LAWRENCE. And shoot your cow.

So, these are things that we are really concerned about. We really feel like this is truly the right road, that your committee has really got, as used in Government so many times, a good handle on the right direction. We do feel that COG, working as it can with its staff, is trying to project a good project; it is trying to get the thing on. But I see so many people coming here and not doing a thing, but just driving in to the District-if the guy can get into the District-but he ends up doing absolutely nothing. He comes from New York; he says, well, I will take the wife and kids down, right, for a few days. I wonder how far-I wonder if he will ever get abreast of Baltimore, right? Or the guy coming from Richmond will ever get beyond Fredericksburg. And when you stop and think about it-you know, you say, well, that is kind of overexaggerating the thing, right? But if you stop and try to analyze it, about parking places-how many parking places do we actually have? If we created 5,000 parking places tomorrow, over and above what you actually need, right-or 10,000 parking places there are estimates that 40,000 automobiles will be in the Mall on any one given day; and there are estimates that there could be upwards of a million people on the Mall. Where are they going to go? What are they going to do? I mean, there are going to be some little old men out there that are going to be in trouble, and some little children that are lost and cannot find their families. And these are the problems that we see.

Not only do we see them here, but we see the people backing away from the District, not getting into the District. You know, and I know, if you are going on a trip someplace, the first thing you do when you find that you are in trouble, wherever you have gone to, you say, gee, I cannot stay here. When you go to Miami and you say, I cannot stay in Miami; I will go back up 40 or 50 miles north of Miami. The same thing is going to happen right here. The guy is going to say, I want to go 40 or 50 miles south, southwest, west, out of this area; I will find accommodations. There is none there.

We feel like, first off, there has got to be a program for the people to see, and there has got to be some way to handle the people. If we do not handle the people, they are going to clean it up.

Mr. HARRIS. Thank you very much. I am very impressed by your comments. I think they are brilliant because I agree with them. Mr. LAWRENCE. OK.

Mr. HARRIS. Does Mr. Jacobs have any additional comments?
Mr. JACOBS. No, I do not believe so, Mr. Chairman, thank you.

Mr. HARRIS. Mr. Gude, do you have any questions?

Mr. GUDE. One proposal that has been made is the use of the Dulles access road, making it available for carpools for those working in Federal agencies out there, so that the burden would be relieved. Perhaps that would not actually affect you so much in Loudoun County. It is half and half

Mr. LAWRENCE. Well, most of the airport is in our county, and the access road itself is strictly Government property. And the Federal Government would use it as they see fit.

Mr. GUDE. But this would take the burden off the local roads.

INFORMATION DISSEMINATION

Mr. LAWRENCE. We would look toward something of that nature as being a very good plan, the problem being I believe that the Park Service made a suggestion that I think has to be put in. Their suggestion is that 50 miles away from the District of Columbia, on all roads leading into Washington, that they have signs, "Tune your radio to this station," and they make available all of this sort of information to you.

If you do not have that, then the whole ball game is really gone. But that is one thing that really has to be. So if the guy approaches the District, then you can tell him, turn here, go there, go there, go back home-you know, something that will give him some insight into where to go. Because most people, when they take a trip, unless they have been there once before, are just driving along looking at the scenery and watching what is happening and saying, we will be there; where is the next sign. The next sign says Washington, only 80 miles away. I wonder why we are stopped; there must be an accident up the road.

CAMPSITES

Mr. GUDE. What about the identification of campsites?

Mr. LAWRENCE. We explored the possibilities of it. We feel like that a great sum of money can be made by any individual that wants to turn over 200 or 300 or 400 or 500 acres of land for campsites. He can come out a rich man.

But the problems that the county sees, our county, there is just no way possible that we can afford to establish a park site or a camping site unless we get some help from somebody else.

Mr. GUDE. What about the use of private campsites? Do you have ordinances and regulations for sanitation and limitations?

Mr. MUSCH. Yes.

Mr. LAWRENCE. No, we have none as it stands now.

Mr. GUDE. It is a State responsibility?

Mr. MUSCH. The State laws would come into effect.

Mr. GUDE. Providing for licensing and minimum services and facilities and so on?

Mr. MUSCH. That is right.

Mr. LAWRENCE. We would feel that there are certain areas in our county and close to the fringes, as you said before, to Fairfax and Prince William and the others, that could possibly be made available if there are funds made available to the county to offset this. But you cannot ask this county, like we mentioned before in the Transpo thing, it

costs us an awful lot of money and an awful lot of time; and we thought we were going to get reimbursed for a lot of this. And we had people working 12 hours and 16 hours a day to cover this program that the Federal Government says, do not worry, we will take care of it all, you do not have any problem. But as you can see, this is a big problem.

TRANSPORTATION

Mr. MUSCH. Mr. Gude, if I might just make one comment.

You asked the question of whether or not, as I understood it, it would assist having the Dulles access road reserved for commuter traffic.

Mr. GUDE. Well, no; to have one lane available for carpools going to the Federal facility located out near Dulles. There are commuters from Maryland and Virginia, and they cannot get on the Dulles access road.

Mr. MUSCH. I was merely going to respond, in my personal opinion, that would not be an adequate solution to many of the problems in the transportation sector you are facing in the Bicentennial celebrations.

I think one of the reasons we struck upon attempting as best we could to generate interest into a mass transit link to Dulles is the fact that Dulles is relatively isolated, and for people coming into the metropolitan area, it is easy for them to get to it. The thought being, get as many people off the highways as quickly as possible and into the city. Also, we felt that one of the goals of the National Bicentennial Administration was lasting monuments for the Bicentennial, and we could not think of any better monument than actually putting a piece of Metro into operation. I realize that nowadays that is not speaking with very many optimistic prospects in sight, but we felt that you are deal ing with a proposal that has been made to Congress before. You are dealing with land that is held by the Federal Government, in most

cases.

Mr. HARRIS. I am sure Mr. Gude is familiar with that.

Mr. GUDE. I am an ardent supporter and sponsor of the link to Dulles.

Mr. LAWRENCE. Yes, we know that.

Mr. GUDE. I would be overjoyed. Of course, Metro will be operating within the District-the first trains will be running in September. But I guess as to funding a link out to Dulles, we will make it eventually. It is down the road a ways, though.

Mr. MUSCH. We were suggesting it might be raised a notch up.

Mr. HARRIS. We had a notion that he might try to get it out of Vienna first.

Mr. GUDE. I am an ardent supporter of that idea. I was just thinking that the idea of using one of the lanes there would provide some modicum of relief.

Mr. LAWRENCE. Anything would help.

There is a bill that was passed in the 93d Congress on transportation that authorized $10 million. I do not have the bill with me now-that authorized something like $10 million for bus service to Dulles Airport. I am sure that would not take too much looking into. We have requested a feasibility from that fund, and hopefully, we will get it. But I cannot give you the bill number and all of the

details that concern that, but it is something that I think could be researched here and would be helpful at this point.

Mr. GUDE. Thank you.

Mr. HARRIS. Mr. Green, do you have any questions?
Mr. GREEN. No questions, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. HARRIS. Thank you very much for taking the long trip down here. We appreciate your comments. It was an excellent statement. Mr. LAWRENCE. Thank you.

Mr. HARRIS. Mr. Henry G. Bibber, director of intergovernmental programs, Prince William County.

We would like to welcome you, Mr. Bibber, from Prince William County. It is nice to have you here. You may proceed. We would like to have you limit your presentation to 10 minutes, if you could, and then answer questions from the committee.

STATEMENT OF HENRY G. BIBBER, DIRECTOR, INTERGOVERNMENTAL PROGRAMS, PRINCE WILLIAM COUNTY, VA.

Mr. BIBBER. My name is Henry Bibber, director of intergovernmental programs for Prince William County.

With respect to our local planning activities for the Bicentennial, the county has established a Bicentennial Commission and it has been declared a Bicentennial community. A list of Bicentennial historic sites has been adopted by the Supervisors, and a brochure describing these sites and describing the location of the sites is being prepared.

PRINCE WILLIAM COUNTY PLANS

An amount of $40,000 has been designated in the county executive's proposed fiscal year 1976 budget for Bicentennial activities. If approved, the activities to be funded will probably be selected from the following proposals made by the Bicentennial Commission tourist information centers in Manasses and Dumphries; Bicentennial publications; the establishment of a Bicentennial coordinator and supporting activities; the purchase and improvement of one or two historical sites; and perhaps a Tricentennial Prince William County time capsule.

Now, these proposals are before the supervisors, and have not yet been acted upon. That includes the $40,000 in the proposed budget. Mr. HARRIS. They do not have much time, do they?

Mr. BIBBER. Fiscal 1976 is about with us. They do not have much time.

Mr. HARRIS. I thought you had established your tax rate.

Mr. BIBBER. We have established the tax rate.

Mr. HARRIS. But you have not adopted the budget?

Mr. BIBBER. No, sir.

Mr. HARRIS. Excuse me for interrupting.

FUNDING

Mr. BIBBER. Regional activities-we are a member of the COG Bicentennial committee, and we did participate in the regional Bicentennial impact aid request submitted by COG.

The county came up with approximtaely $300,000 for police services, medical support services, and environmental health programs. We