Mr. SHEPPARD. I will yield 5 minutes's time so that Mrs. Smart can make her statement before I examine Mr. Collett.

The CHAIRMAN. There being no objection, it is so ordered. Mrs. Smart will be heard for 5 minutes starting at 10:30 o'clock next Wednesday, April 20.

Mr. SHEPPARD. And it is understood that the hearing will start promptly at 10:30 o'clock next Wednesday, April 20?

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Sheppard asks unanimous consent that the hearing on H. R. 7450 start promptly at 10:30 o'clock on next Wednesday, April 20. Is there objection? The Chair hears none, and it is so ordered.

(Whereupon, at 12 o'clock noon, the committee adjourned, to resume the hearing on Wednesday, April 20, 1938, at 10:30 a. m.)

PALM SPRINGS BAND OF MISSION INDIANS

WEDNESDAY, APRIL 20, 1938

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,
COMMITTEE ON INDIAN AFFAIRS,

Washington, D. C.

The Committee on Indian Affairs met in the committee room, the Capitol, at 10:30 a. m., Hon. Will Rogers, chairman of the committee, presiding.

The CHAIRMAN. We will now resume the hearing on H. R. 7450. The Chair would like to suggest to the committee that we have had several days' hearings on the bill since part I was printed. If members of the committee feel that they would like to have part II printed it would be a good idea to so designate at this time.

The Chair would like to explain further that when part I was ordered printed the committee suggested that we have about 100 copies of the first part printed. We are entitled to 1,000 copies of the entire hearings and so it will be possible now to get only 900 copies of the entire hearings. Since we have had 100 copies of the first part printed we can likewise have 100 copies of the second part printed and then 100 copies of the third part, if we so desire. In other words, unless we do have the second and third parts of this hearing printed we will lose 100 copies of parts II and III, to which we are entitled.

Mr. SHEPPARD. At this time, Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous consent that the clerk of the committee be authorized to have 100 copies. of part II of the hearing printed.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Sheppard asks unanimous consent that the clerk of the committee be instructed to have part II of the hearing on H. R. 7450 printed, to include all the testimony given to date, and that 100 copies be secured for the use of the committee. Is there objection? There being none, it is so ordered.

Mr. SHEPPARD. Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous consent that the clerk be authorized to prepare and have printed in sufficient numbers to supply the committee a committee print of H. R. 7450, showing at the appropriate places the amendments proposed by Mr. Willis as printed in Senate committee print, the amendments proposed by the Park Service, and those proposed by Mr. Swing on behalf of the Palm Springs Chamber of Commerce, with the amendments indicating who proposed each.

I am making this unanimous-consent request in order to clarify the record, in behalf of the committee, and having that in mind I am submitting a copy in which all the amendments have been noted. I ask unanimous consent that this be done.

85104-38-14

The CHAIRMAN. It will be impossible to indicate in the print who presented the amendments, but we will have that in the record.

Mr. SHEPPARD. I ask unanimous consent that the enacting clause in H. R. 7450 be stricken and that the amended enacting section of the Senate committee be substituted therefor. The proposed amendments to be substituted are shown on the attached copy that I am presenting to the chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. And what you are submitting is the revised form of H. R. 7450, showing all these amendments which you propose? Mr. SHEPPARD. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Is there any objection to the request of Mr. Sheppard? The Chair hears no objection and it is so ordered.

We are now ready to hear the first witness for today. By order of the committee at the last meeting, Mrs. Smart was to be given 5 minutes at this time.

Will you please state your full name and then make your statement? You will be recognized for 5 minutes.

STATEMENT OF MRS. LETA MYERS SMART

Mrs. SMART. Mr. Chairman and members of the committee: I am grateful for this opportunity of appearing before you in connection with H. R. 7450 (Senate print 2589) that affects the Palm Springs Indians, and I hope that what I say will be of some benefit to them. Of course, I cannot say very much in 5 minutes and if at the end of the time allotted to me you don't feel sorry that you have even given me the 5 minutes, I would appreciate it if you would give me additional time to go into other matters that have a distinct bearing on the Palm Springs' state of affairs.

I have been in Palm Springs many times. In fact, I have just come from there after a stay of 2 months, part of which time was spent right on that famous section 14 of the Indian Reservation, that you hear so much about; and truly the pictures that have been painted for you of Palm Springs have not been exaggerated. It is really a very delightful place, that is, all except the Indian Reservation. There is something about Palm Springs that "gets you," and if you go there once you will want to go again, and again. And yet, if we would be truthful, I don't think we ought to say that the real lure and attraction at Palm Springs is the sunshine, for the sun shines in other parts of California as well, or the beauty of the desert in the moonlight. The real attraction at Palm Springs is that hidden paradise, Palm Canyon, that, and the hot springs. The white people of Palm Springs have nothing to do with it. Neither did the Indians, for that matter. They were there long before either the Indians or the white people set foot upon the land. These are the most valuable tribal assets that the Palm Springs Indians have. They are what draw people by the thousands to Palm Springs every season, and this is what H. R. 7450 or S. 2589 proposes to take into consideration, in part, at least, these very valuable assets. I mean that the bill in part takes those into consideration.

Now, this thought occurs to me: If these Indians have something that the white people want, providing, of course, that the Indians want to dispose of it, and in this case I understand that they do, there is a right way for the white people to go about getting it, and I don't mean by that old established method either.

I believe that the really good, old-established people of Palm Springs have the best interests of the Indians at heart and would not want to see them robbed of everything they had and made any more miserable than they already are. But we must not lose sight of the fact that the land in question does not belong to the Secretary of the Interior, nor does it belong to the Palm Springs Chamber of Commerce. It belongs to the Indians and they, as sole owners of this land, should have the final voice in the matter of the disposal of their lands; and that the Secretary of the Interior or anyone, would have no more right to arbitrarily take these lands away from them, if they did not want to sell them, than if I were to go into Mrs. Von Bulow's room in the hotel where we are staying and say to her:

“Mrs. Von Bulow, you have more than one pair of shoes. I'm going to take one pair of them." And then go ahead and take her best shoes, leaving her with nothing but some shoes that pinch her feet.

Let me say it again. If the Indians have something that the white people want there is a right way for them to go about getting it. I, for one, appreciated the suggestion of ex-Congressman Swing that last day of the hearing when the committee met on this bill when he said he thought the sale of this land ought to be conducted up and above board, duly advertised long enough in advance to enable the prospective buyers to make their necessary arrangements. However, I did not quite follow Mr. Swing when he said the highest price the Indians would get must necessarily be a cash price, because it has been my experience to observe that the cash price of anything is lower, than where credit is extended; or whatever way you want to put it. So, I believe I like the suggestion made by Mr. Zimmerman on that same day as being more satisfactory to the Indians. He suggested that there be a certain percentage down, and so on, like is done in the case of oil or gas lands. I believe that would be a more satisfactory method from the standpoint of the Indians, to have a certain percentage down and the balance in installments.

Neither can I agree with Mr. Swing when he suggested that the italicized words at the top of page 7 be stricken from the bill. Along this line, let me suggest, that if there is any doubt in the minds of any of you as to whether the Indians have a right, or will be given a right, to have anything to say in regard to the disposal of their own property, and there is in this bill nothing to definitely establish that they are really going to get that right, then certainly there should be a separate section, perhaps at the end of the bill, reading something like this:

All provisions of this bill must be submitted to the Indians, and shall not become effective until approved by a majority vote of the adult Indians affected hereby,

or

None of the provisions of this bill shall become effective unless and until approved by the majority vote of the adult Indians affected hereby.

Then, if I may go a little further into the bill, I see no reasonable reason why lines 11, 12, 13, and part of 14, on page 2, should not remain in the bill. And why not? If any of you gentlemen had an agent who was hired to put a deal through for you, wouldn't you like

to have him let you know of the highest bid he got, and at the earliest possible moment? I do not need to answer that. So would the Indians. So, if in considering this bill, you can see your way clear to leave those lines in the bill, I think it would be no more than fair to the Indians.

There are, after all, Mr. Chairman, only two or three main points that ought to be settled in your minds before you vote on this bill: First, whether the Indians want to sell or not. I think they do. Second, whether the Indians can't be treated like any other human beings and have something to say about their own business; and, Third, whether the turning of the canyons into national parks, or monuments, would not be better for both the canyons and the Indians. Certainly it would make for better protection of the canyons; and if the Indians could only get a right price for them they too, it would seem to me, would be in a better fix than they are now, when they are only getting $10 a month.

The CHAIRMAN. The time of the witness has expired. How much more time will the witness need?

Mrs. SMART. How much time? About one-half a minute to finish this.

Mr. SHEPPARD. I ask that the witness be given 1 minute more. Mrs. SMART. Thank you.

The CHAIRMAN. How much time would you require to conclude your statement?

Mrs. SMART. Fifteen minutes, if I'm to go into the other matters. Mr. SHEPPARD. Couldn't you finish in 10 minutes?

Mrs. SMART. I will try.

Mr. SHEPPARD. I ask unanimous consent that the witness be given an additional 10 minutes.

Mr. CRAWFORD. Reserving the right to object, Mr. Chairman, will we, after the expiration of the time of the witness, be permitted to ask questions, under this agreement?

The CHAIRMAN. That is at the pleasure of the committee.

Mr. SHEPPARD. I ask unanimous consent that the witness be given 10 minutes additional within which to conclude her statement. The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Sheppard asks unanimous consent that the witness be given 10 additional minutes. Is there any objection? The Chair hears none, and the witness may proceed with her statement. Mrs. SMART. There are a lot of things that ought to be done at Palm Springs, and if, in your minds, you feel that the enactment of this bill would mean a start in the right direction, I am hoping you will let it go out of this committee with a favorable report, with the suggested amendments.

Now, there are some other matters that occur to me that I feel I ought to explain, and the first is my changed position from a year ago, when I appeared before this committee in connection with the matter of allotments on the Palm Springs Reservation. The reason for that is more than just a woman's privilege of changing her mind. I have changed my mind after bitter experience and humiliation. As everyone knows, there is a feud on between Mr. Sloan and Mr. Willis and that feud has been causing a condition which is nothing less than scandalous and for no other reason, I think, than for mere jealousy on the part of Mr. Sloan.

I do really feel that Mr. Willis has the faith and confidence of the majority of the Indians at Palm Springs, and I believe he has the