CHARITABLE TRUSTS. MR. TRELAWNY wished to know whether it were the intention of Her Ma SIR J. GRAHAM said, that his noble and learned Friend the Lord Chancellor would, at an early period, bring forward a Bill in the other House for the Regulation of Charitable Trusts. House adjourned at six o'clock. HOUSE OF COMMONS, two questions would be raised when the Sugar Duties came under discussion; and although he did not wish to ask the right hon. Gentleman to bring forward the sub-jesty's Government to bring forward any ject either on an early day or a late day, measure during the present Session on the he begged of him to consider what course subject of Charitable Trusts? it would be most conducive to the public interest that he should adopt on the matter. SIR R. PEEL should have no objection to bring forward the Sugar Duties on an early day after the measures to which he had called the particular attention of the House had been disposed of. He thought that as far as the Government business was concerned those measures were entitled to precedence, and until they had been disposed of he would not take the sense of Parliament upon the Sugar Duties. He had been aware of the inconvenience that would necessarily arise from a reference to the Sugar Duties sometime before the sense of Parliament could be taken upon the subject. But he had been convinced that he would have been asked what were the intentions of Her Majesty's Government upon CAPTAIN PECHELL said, that it was that question; and he had felt that to have now nearly eight years since he placed declined to give an answer, or to have before the notice of the House the case of given an equivocal answer, would have a labouring man in the Eastbourne Union, subjected the trade to greater embarrass-in Sussex, who had been brought to death's ment than any to which it could otherwise have been exposed. REPRESENTATION OF DORSETSHIRE. MR. W. MILES said, he had heard that a noble Lord (Lord Ashley), one of the Members for Dorsetshire, and another hon. Gentleman, had accepted office under the Crown. He wished to know whether these rumours were well founded; and if so, whether new writs were about to be issued? SIR R. PEEL said, it was perfectly true that the noble Lord and the hon. Gentleman to whom the hon. Member referred had accepted office under the Crown; but that office was the stewardship of the Chiltern Hundreds. (Laughter.) MR. W. MILES wished to know whether it was the intention of the right hon. Baronet to move for new writs in the room of the noble Lord and of the hon. Gentleman? If that were not his intention, he begged leave himself to move for a new writ for Dorsetshire. SIR R. PEEL said, that before the Motion for a new writ could be made, certain forms must be gone through. These forms had not yet been complied with. The moment they had been through, he would make the fact known to the hon. Member. Subject at an end. Wednesday, February 4, 1846. MINUTES.] PETITIONS PRESENTED. From Inverness and Brighton, for Repeal, and from Sussex, against Alteration, of the Corn Laws.-From Enfield and Fleetwood, against Enrolment of the Militia.-From Chairman of the Board of Guardians of the Nenagh Union, for the Adoption of Measures for the Employment of the People of Ireland. EMPLOYMENT OF PAUPERS. door by the system of labour to which the paupers were subjected in that workhouse. At the time, he was met by very unjust and very severe observations on the part of those who chose to defend the system of crushing bones in the various workhouses. Every year since that time he had endeavoured to press the matter on the attention of Government; and at length, he was happy to say, the right hon. Baronet the Secretary of State for the Home Department had entered into the feelings of those who had brought that monstrous abuse, the practice of bone-crushing, before the House. The House was well aware, that during the last two Sessions the right hon. Baronet did state, on several occasions, that he highly disapproved of that practice, either by way of punishment or as a mode of useful employment. The Poor Law Commissioners, however, appeared to have thwarted the intentions of the Secretary of State; and, notwithstanding the fact that much pains were taken to promulgate the expression of his opinion regarding the practice, still every means was used to continue it throughout the country. Last Session, he moved for a Return of the number of Union Workhouses in which the paupers were employed in the abominable system of crushing or pounding bones, and Admiralty, for its guidance and information. With regard to the return of the number of French and English boats which had been detained from time to time under the Convention, he could inform the hon. and gallant Captain it was in course of preparation, and would be presented in a few days. CAPTAIN PECHELL said the French Government had not yet passed any law to carry into effect the rules and regulations agreed on by the Convention. In consequence of the imperfect lettering, numbering, marking, and naming of their boats, it was difficult to identify any of them which might have been concerned in any aggression on a dark night. Motion agreed to. which had been made to the Board of Trade and the Commissioners of Customs relative to the instructions to be issued to the naval authorities respecting the Convention between this country and France, and with respect to the examination of French fishing vessels. Now, from what appeared in the French newspapers, it would seem that remonstrances had been made by the French Government to the British Government on this subject, and that the latter had yielded the point sought for. Now, by the 13th Article of the Convention between the two countries, the fishermen of both countries were ordered, when required to do so by the respective authorities, to present their licenses for examination. It was stated in the newspapers that the Board of Trade had issued instructions relative to the construction or PRIVILEGE-INTERPOLATED PETITIONS. interpretation of this 13th Article, and di- MR. GISBORNE then said, he had a recting that no fishing vessels were to be petition to present to the House of raexamined unless there were grounds for ther a particular character, and it comsuspecting them. It appeared to him that plained of what, if true, involved a gross there was a giving way on the part of our violation of the privileges of that House. own Government on this question. He The allegations contained in the petition knew an instance where some French were to the following effect, viz. fishermen had come in the night, and drew on last Monday night a petition had been the fishing stations of the English fisher-presented to the House, purporting to men, to their great injury and loss. He be the petition of one Edmond Carter, did not see any Lord of the Admiralty present, or he would ask him a question relative to this subject, or whether any instructions had been sent from that department. He hoped the right hon. Baronet opposite would furnish them with any copies of instructions furnished by the Admiralty, so that the House might know exactly how the case stood. SIR G. CLERK had no objection to the production of the documents to which the hon. and gallant Member opposite referred. He believed the hon. and gallant Gentleman had correctly stated the case. The fact was that complaints had been made by the fishermen of both nations of their boats having been examined by the cruisers of both countries; and upon a communication taking place between the Governments of France and England, it had been thought better to confine the cases of search or visit to such fishing boats as might be suspected of violation of the terms of the Convention. This regulation was as good for the fishermen of one nation as another, and both French and English boats were convenienced by being preserved from the system. He could inform the hon. and gallant Member that a copy of the letter sent to the Customs had also been sent to the that saying, that in the case of the Manchester COURTS OF REQUEST. MR. KEMBLE begged to ask whether it was the intention of the Government to extend the jurisdiction of Courts of Request, in accordance with the provisions of the Bill of last year? SIR J. GRAHAM was glad the hon. Member had, by his question, given him an opportunity of explaining what were the intentions of Her Majesty's Government in this respect. Since the passing of the law of last Session, several petitions had been presented from various places asking for an extension of the jurisdiction of such courts under the Act in question; and these petitions had been referred to a Committee of the Privy Council; and instructions had been sent to all the Courts of Request throughout England, to make | poor of Ireland, with a view to their being the inquiries necessary to enable the Go-amended and rendered efficient for their vernment to carry the law into effect, and purposes, I feel that the conduct of such extend the jurisdiction of such courts. But an inquiry, embracing, as it must, the the care necessary to be observed in form-consideration of important principles, and ing the larger circles for the operation of of details scarcely less important, in referthese courts, so as not to interfere with any ence to measures of very deep interest to smaller ones that might intervene, rendered the well-being of the Irish people, might the time for carrying the law into effect a better have devolved upon some one having little more prolonged than otherwise. But the authority of official connexion with the no time had been lost, and the arrange-Government of the country. When I, last ment of the whole plan was in progress. Session, intimated the intention, which I Meantime he should feel it his duty to call am this evening to fulfil, of bringing forupon the House to grant him a Supplemen-ward this Motion, I at the same time extal Bill during the present Session to re-pressed a hope that the duty-for such it gulate the proceedings in those courts. It is would have been taken off my hands would be also the care of the Government by some noble Lord more competent to to see that assessors, properly qualified, perform it; and considering that my noble and professional men of competent stand-Friend (Lord Clanricarde), who, in 1843, ing, should be engaged in the practice of these courts. MR. HAWES asked, whether the right hon. Baronet proposed to lay on the Table any Papers of information upon which the Government might have relied in carrying out the proposed plan; and also whether the applications for the extension of jurisdiction alluded to would be produced, or the grounds upon which they were made stated? SIR J. GRAHAM said, the hon. Gentleman must be aware, that, even without any such applications, the Bill of last Session empowered an extension of the jurisdiction of these Courts of Request, where it might be deemed expedient and advisable. When the Privy Council had made their Report to Her Majesty, and Her Majesty had sanctioned that Report, he should be prepared to bring the entire subject before Parliament. Adjourned at a few minutes after two o'clock. HOUSE OF LORDS, MINUTES.] PUBLIC BILLS.—1a. Game Laws; Public Works (Ireland). moved for a Committee of Inquiry into the working of the Poor Law, as it then stood, and subsequently in the discussion upon the Amendment Act, which is now in operation, intimated an intention of renewing his Motion for inquiry-considering that he was, upon these accounts, as well as from the abilities he could bring to the task, the fittest person to carry such an inquiry to a satisfactory result, I requested him to undertake it. My noble Friend, however, having declined, it only remains for me to request your Lordships' indulgent attention, while I set forth as briefly as the subject will admit of the circumstances that warrant me in calling upon your Lordships to grant me the Committee, and the objects which it appears to me may be ob tained from it. Looking, my Lords, at the actual condition of Ireland-the almost daily accounts of agrarian outrages and murders which are perpetrated, for the most part, in connection with a systematic resistance to the rights of property, and considering that this state of things, though referable, no doubt, to many other causes, is aggravated by an amount of suffering and destitution among the lower orders of the Irish people, that might almost alone account for it, but which is certainly an obstruction to the progress of civilisation and national improvement, it Land, and others, of Tannington, and several other places, in favour of the Corn Laws.-From Chairman and other places, for Protection to the Agricultural In-appears to me that an inquiry into the Board of Guardians of the Nenagh Union, and several terest. RELIEF OF THE POOR IN IRELAND. The EARL of CLANCARTY said: My Lords, in rising to move for the appointment of a Select Committee to inquire into the working of the laws relating to the relief of the destitute and of the sick operation of any laws affecting the condition of the poor, and designed for their benefit, but which, from any concurrence of testimony, appear to be productive of discontent, and to have failed of fulfiling the purposes of the Legislature, would be at the present time of great value, as well as upon other accounts most desirable. tricts in general substantially upon an | laying down regulations with respect to equality as to infirmary accommodation, their particular duties-for inspectionand render complete and satisfactory the for audit of medical accounts for comdistribution of medical institutions. For municating and advising with the local the local government of dispensaries, I boards, and for reporting annually, and would constitute the twenty highest rate- as occasion may require, to the Governpayers of the district-associated with as ment, I cannot conceive any more fitting many other persons as by a donation of body than the General Board of Health of 201., or an annual subscription of 21., de- Ireland. I know nothing of the constitusired to assist in the administration of the tion of the existing Board; but very cercharity—a board with the same duties to tain I am, that, in so densely populated a perform as now attach to dispensary boards. country as Ireland, periodically visited with To these I would confide the duty of elect- epidemic diseases, and whose sanatory coning the medical officer of inspection, of dition should, at all times, be a subject of checking and superintending the fiscal busi- interest to the Government, such a board, ness, and of recommending fit objects for to be of any real service, should have the medical relief. The highest ratepayers are, superintendence of every public institution for the most part, the landlords-those who for affording medical relief. I do not see now are, in virtue of their voluntary con- any necessity for, and I do see some obtributions, governors of dispensaries; and jection against, casting this duty upon the there appears to be no reason for making Poor Law Commissioners. A certain scale any alteration of the law in this respect, of salaries once laid down for the medical because their contributions, now voluntary, officers, the economy of a medical instituwill henceforth be made compulsory. None tion could by none be so well understood could have a greater interest in the wel- as by medical men-their audit, therefore, fare of the poor than their landlord of the accounts after they had been preto none is it more important that cases viously passed by the local boards, should of ill health among a tenantry should be sufficient to justify their being included be known than to their landlord and among the 'charges payable out of the none could have a more obvious interest poor rates. I have now, my Lords, within the economical management of the cha-out entering into any minute details, stated rity than the highest ratepayers. For the government of the Union infirmaries, the establishment and expenses of which should be upon the Union at large, the board of guardians, as representing the property of the Union, would be the proper body; their duty might be to inspect, to check the accounts, and to elect the medical officers; but as no case which could be dealt with at a dispensary should be sent to an infirmary, patients should only be admitted on the recommendation of a dispensary doctor, and always with a full written statement of the nature of the case. The interim treatment of difficult medical or surgical cases at an institution where the medical men of the Union could meet and consult, would be at once advantageous to the patients, and tend to the promotion of medical science. The support of patients should be borne either by themselves, if in circumstances to afford it, or by the divisions of the Union to which they respectively belong, where the case might be duly certified to be that of a very poor man. For the general superintendence of all medical charities, for the confirming, or, for cause stated, negativing the appointment of medical officers of the several institutions-for the outline of what would afford a complete remedy for the present defective state of the medical charities. The plan I have suggested is analogous to that which the law at present contemplates; for the charge is borne equally by the owner and occupier of the soil; and the local boards for governing the institutions would probably include all who at present interest themselves-as well as all who, in the contemplation of the existing laws, ought to assist in these charities. That which is further provided for, is distribution, inspection, central control, the advancement of medical science, and the union of the whole system with the Government of the country. Doubtless when the opinions of others have been heard, who, like myself, take a strong view of the evils and abuses to be corrected, and of the good that may be effected, other plans will be proposed-if not more eligible, certainly, from the quarters from whence they may come, better deserving of consideration. That the inquiry will be perfectly impartial, I can have no doubt; and seeing how important it may be in its results, both with reference to the domestic happiness and physical condition of the industrious poor, and with reference also to the respectability of the | Poor Law is said to have dried up the medical profession, and the advancement sources of charity and benevolence, and of medical science, I trust that such noble that such must of necessity be the effect Lords as may be appointed to serve upon of any compulsory rate for the relief of the the Committee, will not grudge giving the poor. This was referred to as a fact in the time and attention so necessary to elucidate debate in 1843, by no less an authority facts and opinions so as to lay in their report than the Archbishop of Dublin; and he the foundation of a permanent good. I stated in corroboration of it, that the colhave omitted all notice of lunatic asylums, lections for the poor at churches have been as they are under a different law, and the materially impaired by it. I think the most interests of the lunatic poor are under rev. Prelate was wrong in the inference he much more able advocacy-that of the drew from the circumstance. Wherever noble Lord opposite (Lord Monteagle). I those church collections have been contido not concur in all that the noble Lord nued as formerly, by way of relief for the would recommend upon the subject; but I destitute, they have, no doubt, diminished cordially join in that tribute of gratitude in amount, in consequence of there being a and respect which is due to the noble Lord better provision now made by law for such for the reforms he has effected in the treat- objects; but, in vindication of my Protestment of that unfortunate class; for having, ant fellow countrymen, I can say, from my in fact, rendered our asylums for the lunatic own knowledge, that where these collecpoor institutions of which, though yet ca- tions have been since directed to charitable pable of improvement, we have nationally no purposes not otherwise provided for, they cause to be ashamed. In calling your Lord- have rather increased than fallen off since ships' attention now to the Poor Law, I have the passing of the Poor Relief Act. Such much satisfaction in stating that, unpopu- an objection, however, I need hardly tell lar as it in general is, and strongly as dis- your Lordships, must strike at the very approbation has been expressed against it foundation of any legal provision for the in Ireland, there does not exist, that I can relief of the poor; and I regret to say, that discover, any factious or reckless disposi-it has created in some quarters a strong tion to get rid of it. I have sought for and prejudice, not against the Poor Law only, received from all parts of Ireland commu- but also against that modification of the nications both public and private, contain-laws for the support of medical charities, ing suggestions, made with a view to its which, in the present circumstances of Ireamendment, and many of them of great land, I believe can alone secure to the value, but none for its repeal. And, further, poorer classes the medical aid to which the in confirmation of this important fact, I Legislature has recognised their claim; I hold in my hand a statement, drawn up by the mean their being charged, as recommended gentleman who acted as secretary at a large in the Report of the Land Commissioners and influential meeting of landed proprietors upon the Poor Rates. But, with respect and others, in the city of Dublin, under the to the relief of the destitute poor, I do not presidency of the Duke of Leinster, in think that the most prejudiced person 1843, from which it appears that in seck- against compulsory assessments, if he dising for a Parliamentary inquiry into the passionately considers the cases of the working of the Poor Law, they were wil-orphan, the widow, the aged, and the helpling and desirous, without calling its prin- less-the peculiar wants of each, and the ciple in question, to lend their aid in de-impracticability of their being, in all cases, vising the means of rendering it efficient adequately supplied by private charity, for its purposes. It will, therefore, not be would seriously advocate their being, on necessary in that inquiry which I now, as account of their destitution, made outcasts I then did, think should precede legislative from society-mere subjects for the casual amendment, to question the principle of the display of an almsgiving benevolence; obAct, to which, in fact, the country is now jects, no doubt, to excite feelings of comfully committed. One word, however, I passion, and the more painfully so, because would wish to take the present opportu-exposed to the risk and cruel consequences nity of saying, in reference to some ad- of neglect. The field, my Lords, for the verse opinions that are not unfrequently ex-exercise of charity, in its ordinary acceppressed upon Poor Law legislation, which, wherever they harbour, must preclude the idea of anything being effected that could be satisfactory. The enactment of the tation, is quite wide enough without the walls of the workhouse; and so long as Christianity exists, its peculiar attribute of unostentatious liberality will always |