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people was involved in the present period | might as well expect to prevent improper of scarcity. The object of the Committee litigation by augmenting the expenses inwas, not only to give the promoters of these curred in the courts of law, as to prevent Railway Bills a pre-audience, as far as that speculation by increasing the difficulties of House was concerned, but also to enable passing Bills. Before sitting down, he them to proceed with the works at as early could not avoid again expressing his belief a period as possible. Therefore, the Reso- that there could scarcely have been comlutions proposed by his noble Friend were mitted any greater mistake than the course deserving of the approval, not only of their adopted with regard to railway deposits Lordships, but of all who were desirous in the present year; he could imagine noof giving employment and consequently thing more indefensible than, after permitmoney wages to the labouring popula- ting all parties to invest the money paid as tion of Ireland. He trusted that those deposits on railway shares in Government who were concerned in Irish Railway Bills securities, to refuse permitting them to would feel that, as far as the alterations in make their deposits, in the first instance, the Standing Orders were concerned, they with the Accountant General in those not only had no reason to complain, but very public funds which were accepted as that their position would, in point of fact, their ultimate security. He knew it had be greatly improved in coming before the been thought that any relaxation of this Legislature. There was one effect of rule would give a benefit to railway prothese Standing Orders to which his noble prietors, and that its enforcement was thereFriend had not alluded-namely, the ad- fore a sort of punishment for over-specuvantage of allowing the promoters of Rail- lation. But that argument was founded way Bills to prove simultaneously their on an entire misapprehension of all the compliance with the Standing Orders of facts. The punishment-if it were to be both Houses of Parliament. That, he called such-did not fall on railway prothought, was a great advantage. Hither-prietors, but on bankers and on parties to, the promoters of Railway Bills were connected with the mercantile interests of obliged to bring witnesses, perhaps from the country, by whom it had been felt as the farthest parts of Ireland or Scot- a very great grievance. He was inland-from every place between the Land's End and John o'Groat's House, to prove compliance with a set of formal Orders before the House of Commons; and at a future period of the Session they were obliged to bring up the same witnesses again to prove a similar matter in the House of Lords. It would, he thought, be a question for their Lordships' consideration, whether, in respect of the future, this arrangement might not be made permanent; and whether the Standing Orders of both Houses of the Legislature might not be fixed on the authority of an Act of Parliament. The question of compliance or non-compliance might then be considered before the Session commenced, before some proper tribunal; and the Bills would thus be brought under the notice of Parliament without two successive tedious preliminary inquiries. It might be objected that the course which he proposed would tend to the giving of undue encouragement to railway speculation; but their Lordships ought to endeavour to discourage such speculation, not by augmenting expenses, or by throwing technical difficulties in the way of the passing of Bills through the House, but rather by examining with discrimination what Bills they allowed to pass.

formed by the conductors of one great banking establishment, that owing to the system prescribed in respect to these railway deposits, at a time when they were in possession of no less a sum than 2,000,000l. in Exchequer Bills, they were required to make a lodgment of 1,100,0007. to the credit of the Accountant General for railroad deposits, which sum was afterwards to be invested in Government securities; but instead of being allowed to hand over that amount in Exchequer bills, they were obliged to pay the amount in money, though that very money had immediately afterwards to be re-invested in the same security. He was convinced that if the attention of Parliament had been called to this subject in the course of last Session, the proposition to receive stock or Exchequer bills in lieu of money could not have failed to meet its immediate and unqualified approval. But the law as it now stood had produced a most severe pressure, not upon those parties whom Parliament might seek to restrain from speculation, but upon third parties, many of whom were wholly unconnected with railway projects. The result was, that mercantile accommodation had necesThey sarily been considerably limited, and that

the operations of the Bank had been noble and learned Lord with the same atthrown into great doubt and uncertainty. | tention. This confusion had arisen from their unfortunate legislation. He did not make any complaint against the Government with reference to this subject. It was the fault of legislation, and he hoped that mistaken legislation would speedily be amended, for he could not conceive anything more mischievous to the mercantile classes than the existing system.

The EARL of STRADBROKE said, although there was no probability, or, he believed, even possibility, of anything approaching to a famine being witnessed in this country, in Scotland, or in the North of Ireland, still there was great danger of famine extending in the south of Ireland. He, therefore, thought that the Railway Bills connected with that portion of the country, where employment would be most needed, ought to be first proceeded with.

Resolutions agreed to.

“Ordered-That this House will not receive any Petition for a Railway Bill after Monday the 23rd of this Instant, February."

BURDENS ON REAL PROPERTY.

LORD BEAUMONT gave notice that he would, on an early day next week, move for the appointment of a Committee to inquire into the burdens affecting real property.

LORD CAMPBELL said, he wished to be allowed to suggest, respectfully, that the example set by the Committees of the two Houses of Parliament with respect to the railway business might be followed by Her Majesty's Government in the case of other Bills. The Committee to which he alluded had suggested that certain Railway Bills should be brought forward in the first instance in the House of Lords, and it would be most advantageous if some of the many measures of a general nature intended to be brought forward by Her Majesty's Government were also introduced in their Lordships' House. At present their Lordships generally met merely to adjourn; whereas towards the end of the Session they would have more business upon their hands than any length of sitting would enable them satisfactorily to get through.

The DUKE of WELLINGTON said, his noble and learned Friend (Lord Brougham) had made a somewhat similar suggestion on the previous evening, which he (the Duke of Wellington) had already laid before the proper authorities, and he would take care to treat the suggestion of the

The LORD CHANCELLOR said, he had already laid one Bill on the Table of the House, the second reading of which had been postponed for a few days, in order to afford time for considering its provisions. He had also a second Bill ready, namely, one for the management of Charities and Religious Trusts-a subject with which his noble Friend was fully cognizant; and he would lose no time in bringing it forward, so that his noble and learned Friend might have an opportunity of amusing himself in conning it over.

LORD CAMPBELL said, if he were to sit up all night he could not read the number of Bills that were crowded on their Lordships' Table in the month of July. It was not, therefore, any wish for employment, but a feeling of the impossibility of properly getting through the business usually brought before their Lordships towards the close of the Session, that induced him to offer the suggestion.

The LORD CHANCELLOR said, his noble and learned Friend knew well how to employ his leisure. He had lately favoured them with a book full of entertainment and

instruction, by which he had greatly enhanced his own reputation, and conferred an important benefit on the community; and if he continued to devote his leisure certainly not have much cause to regret hours to similar labours, the public would his want of other employment.

LORD CAMPBELL rose and bowed amidst loud cheers from all parts of the House.

House adjourned.

II OUSE OF COMMONS,

Friday, February 6, 1846. MINUTES.] NEW WRIT. For Suffolk (Eastern Division),

v. Lord Henniker, Chiltern Hundreds. PETITIONS PRESENTED. From Liverpool, Penrith, Lancaster, and Wigton, against Enrolment of the Militia.From James Haughton, against raising Revenue on Intoxicating Drinks.--From Elton (8 Petitions), in favour of the Factories Bill.-From Westbourne, Rye, Eaglesham, and Ilminster, for Repeal of the Corn Laws.

RAILWAYS.

LORD G. SOMERSET rose to call the attention of the House to the first Report of the Select Committee appointed to consider the mode in which the House should deal with Railway Bills in the present Session. Two points had to be brought under consideration. In the first place, with regard to Irish Railway Bills, it was the opinion of the Committee that great

facility would be afforded to them by having | He denied that there was any substantial them considered first in the House of Lords; advantage to be derived from the proposed if one of those Bills originated in the House of Commons, and another in the House of Lords, it might not be possible properly to consider one Bill until the other arrived from the House in which it was introduced. In the next place, with regard to those Bills which had reached a certain point last Session, but were prevented from receiving the consideration of the other House, it was thought that, though the number was very small, it was of great importance to the parties to retain their privilege of not having to go through all their evidence again before the House of Commons, and, at the same time, it would be very unfair if any rival Bills now introduced were not to be considered in the House of Lords at the same time. In the case of this class of Bills, therefore, as well as the Irish Bills, the Committee recommended that facility be granted by their being introduced into the House of Lords at once. As to any other Bills, the Committee gave no opinion. These two classes had seemed entitled to a separate consideration. In the case of the Irish Bills the Committee felt that there was so great a demand for employment, that it was right to facilitate their passing speedily. The noble Lord then moved the further consideration of the Report brought up on the previous evening.

change. It appeared to him that this putting the Irish Bills first into the House of Lords would not facilitate their passing. He wished to ask the noble Lord, whether it would be necessary, before any Bill went through the House of Lords, for the promoters of it to show that the Standing Orders of the House of Commons had been complied with. He found in the Report, that after a Bill, having originated in the House of Lords, had been brought down to the Commons, and read a first time, it was recommended that it should be referred to the Committee on Petitions to ascertain whether it had or not substantially complied with the Standing Orders of the Commons. He would be glad to know what a substantial compliance with the Standing Orders meant. There was a difference in the practice of both Houses with respect to the proofs of compliance. The services of notices, lodgment of plans and sections, and all that was preliminary, might be proved in one place by the certificate of an assistant barrister. That was not the case in the other respect; but in many cases forty or fifty people had to be brought, at an immense expense, to prove that which ought to be admitted upon producing an affidavit sworn before a judge. This was the point wherein a material benefit might be conferred upon Ireland, and here was a matter to which the attention of the Legislature had never properly directed itself, but which would be calculated to do great service to the people of Ireland. He had before suggested the expediency of doing something to meet this evil, but it had not been taken up as he wished.

MR. FITZSTEPHEN FRENCH said, he wished to offer a few words to the House on the subject of the Motion of the noble Lord, which appeared to him particularly to affect two classes of Railway Bills-namely, Irish Bills, and such as in this country were in the same class as the London and York Bill. In these cases it was proposed by the plan suggested, that they should commence in the House of Lords. Now he objected to that first part of the Resolution which rendered it compulsory on the promoters of such measures as had completed all their arrangements for proceeding before the House of Commons, to commence their Parliamentary course in the Lords. He did not see why the Irish Bills should meet with any par-wards the adoption of such a course. ticular favour or encouragement over English or Scotch Bills; neither could he conceive why Irish Bills should be placed in any situation different from that of English and Scotch Bills. He did not want this announcement made with such a flourish of trumpets that Irish business was to be given a greater facility than any other, and that this would be advantageous for Ireland.

MR. BERNAL said, the labours of the Committees were only in their infancy, or perhaps merely yet in parturition. He rather approved of the proposition contained in the Resolutions with respect to those Bills which were to be originated in the House of Lords, and felt inclined to waive any objections of a technical character which he might otherwise have felt to

But

with respect to the preference which was to be given to the Irish Bills, he confessed he could see neither the justice, the advantage, the policy, nor the utility of such a mode of proceeding. There was at present a great desire in the public mind of this country to know for certain what railway projects would be perfected, and what would not. And if this plan for preferring

no means wished to throw any impediments in the progress of English or Scotch Bills. The Committee had considered then that the Irish railways might be advanced were they originated in the House of Lords. With respect to what the hon. Member who last spoke had said, about an influx of Irish labourers coming upon England, he could only observe that it would be much better for the Irish labourer to be employed at home, and near his own family, than anywhere else. He could not but feel the greatest possible sympathy and compassion with the condition of many of his poorer fellow countrymen, which, from the accounts he lately received from Sligo and other parts, must be very wretched and distressed. The reports of the prevalence of the potato disease were but too well founded. The poor labouring people of Ireland wanted only employment that would fairly remunerate them, and not any gratuitous charity. The promotion of railways would give them that, and therefore he approved of any course which might tend to that effect.

the Irish Railway Bills to the English and | facility to Irish Railway Bills weigh strongly Scotch were to be proceeded in, they with them; but while they did so they by might do great injustice to a large portion of the community of this country. The House should recollect the large amount of deposits which was that day paid into the Bank of England-an amount which could scarcely be less than 11 millions, exclusive of the amount to be paid on Irish and Scotch Bills; and they should consider the effect of having this large sum of money thus, as it were, locked up from the industry of the country. He confessed he was disappointed in the Report. He did not think that the English or Scotch labourers would jump at these measures for facilitating the passing of Railway Bills as such a great boon. It appeared to him a mistaken delusion to suppose that the construction of railways would give a good deal of employment to the poor. If there was such great employment to be had here in England, there would be a large influx of Irish labourers come over to compete with them. What the people of Ireland wanted most particularly was food. What he would like to see the noble Lord opposite, and the Railway Committee with whom he acted, come down to that House to propose, would be some plan for limiting the expense of English railways. There should be some means devised for lessening the enormous costs of those proceedings, which went on from day to day, from week to week, and from month to month; and this was the chief and most important consideration to which the attention of the Committee should be particularly directed.

MR. AGLIONBY said, one object was quite clear in the present Resolutions, and it was one that every Member of the House, he believed, would concur in, that it was expedient to afford every facility to the passing of Irish Railway Bills through the Legislature. But then came the question, do you give these facilities by the proposed measures? It was recommended by the Resolutions that all Irish Railway Bills The O'CONNOR DON hoped the House should commence in the House of Lords. would permit him to make an observation The hon. Member for Roscommon, who or two, in consequence of what had fallen ought to know something of the matter, from his hon. Colleague. It was well being an Irish Representative, said that this known how impossible it was to satisfy object of facilitating the passing of such every one; but he thought it only his duty, Irish Bills would not be effected by such a as an Irish Member, to state, in his place course. He had been on a Railway Comin the House, that both the Committee of mittee that day, before which an Irish Bill the Lords and that of the Commons had had come in its preliminary stages. He manifested the greatest anxiety to meet the would ask the noble Lord opposite, and the exigency at present unfortunately existing Railway Committee who acted with him, in Ireland. They both considered that it would they not attain their object better would be of great importance during the by not compelling such promoters of Irish period intervening between May and Au- Railway Bills as were ready at present to gust next, that provision should be made go before the Commons, to commence in for the condition of the people through the the Lords? Would it not be more advismedium of employment; and they had con- able to allow such to commence in that ceived that if, by the facilitating of Irish House, as they were prepared to do? If Railway Bills through Parliament, employ-it was true that it was easier to originate ment would be thus secured for the poor, a Bill in the Commons than the Lords, he it would be of much service to do so. They would ask them not to compel the adoption had felt those reasons for giving increased of the latter course,

"2. Resolved-That with a view of affording early and increased means of employment in early consideration of Irish Railway Bills; and Ireland, it is expedient to give facilities for the that, for the attainment of this object, all such Railway Bills should, in the present Session, commence in the House of Lords.”

The Third Resolution having been put,

SIR G. CLERK was at a loss to know what possible impediment was thrown in the way of an Irish Railway Bill by appointing its commencement in the Lords instead of the Commons. It was said that it would be more expensive to adopt this course, particularly with Bills which were ready to go before the House of Commons. MR. BECKETT DENISON thought This allegation he could not concur in. It that Resolution would, if adopted, lead to should be recollected the length of time very unfair results. It was proposed by which should elapse between different that Resolution that "all Bills which comstages of the Bill. There was another point to be considered in discussing the Pete with, or ought to be considered in connexion with, any Bills, the promoters present question, and that was the great inof which shall prove themselves entitled to convenience and awkwardness which might the privileges agreed to be granted in cerresult from the fact of the House of Com-tain cases by the Resolutions of this House mons giving its consent to one Bill, and the House of Lords doing the same with respect to a competing line. Now, if there was no competing line, and if a Bill was obliged to pass through the ordeal of the two Houses, no substantial injustice could be done to the parties by beginning their case before one tribunal sooner than another; and the whole of the terms of the Standing Orders of both Houses should be complied with. Under such circum-launch them in the House of Lords. In stances, he considered no practical inconvenience whatever could ever arise from these propositions.

MR. ROSS suggested that all Bills which had made any progress in that House, with the exception of Bills relating to competing lines, should be allowed to be proceeded with; and that all Bills relating to competing lines, or which had not made any progress in that House, should be referred immediately to the House of Lords.

MR. GREENE said that Bills could not be placed in a worse position, by their being immediately referred to the House of Lords. Many Bills would probably be brought back from the House of Lords at as early a period as the consideration of them could be commenced in the House

of Commons.

MR. COLLETT wished to remind the House that the promoters of railways could not commence the works until some months after they had obtained their Bills. He thought that the Government ought to take some means for further expediting the progress of railway business.

The first two Resolutions were agreed

to :

"1. Resolved-That with respect to any Railway Bills which shall be brought from the House of Lords during this Session, this House will not insist on their privilege with regard to the Clauses fixing and regulating rates and tolls in such Bills.

of the 7th July last, shall commence in the House of Lords." Now, the result of that Resolution would be, that the London and York Bill, which had passed that House, would be placed in a more unfavourable position than the competing schemes which they had last year rejected; for the promoters of those competing schemes would have had an opportunity of altering their Bills since last Session, and could at once

fact they would have the same privileges in the House of Lords as if they had passed the Commons in the present Session. There were at present two schemes competing with the London and York linenamely, the Direct Northern, and the lines from Cambridge to York. There were but two lines from London to York under the consideration of the Committee of that House last Session; and as that Commit. tee had sat during eighty days, he was much afraid that the Committee of the House of Lords, which would have three projects to consider, might have to sit 120 days. But he had risen for the purpose of stating that, although he was convinced that the Select Committee had been actuated by an earnest desire to discharge their duties impartially, the Resolution then before the House might produce very unfair results.

MR. WARD believed that the Resolution

would operate fairly for all parties. There had been a complaint last year that the Select Committee of that House had been unable, from want of time, to hear the

whole of the evidence in the case referred to their consideration. It had been said, however, that there was a place of refuge for the discontented parties-namely, the House of Lords. The three schemes of communication between London and York were at present about to be brought before

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