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a Committee of the Lords; and he believed | or ought to be considered in connexion with any that by that means justice would be best done Bills, the promoters of which shall prove themselves entitled to the privileges agreed to be granted to all the parties interested, and the advan- in certain cases by the Resolutions of this House tage of the public would be best promoted. of the 7th July last, shall commence in the House The subject was one of immense import- of Lords. ance the line of communication in question involved a larger outlay than any other project then before Parliament; and it was evidently desirable that it should undergo the fullest investigation.

MR. BECKETT DENISON wished to observe, that the projects now competing with the London and York line were not the same as the projects competing with it last Session. If they had been the same, he should not on that occasion have uttered one word of complaint.

"4. Resolved-That the parties promoting Railway Bills which, by the above Resolutions, are to commence in the House of Lords, may (notwithstanding any proceeding respecting such Bills in the House of Lords) prove before the Committee on Petitions of the House of Commons that they have complied with the Standing Orders of this House, and the Report of such Committee shall be ordered to lie on the Table. If the Committee should report that the Standing Orders have not been complied with, their Report shall be referred to the Committee on Standing Orders, whose Report shall be ordered to lie on the Table.

"5. Resolved-That when a Railway Bill shall have been brought from the Lords, it shall be read a first time, and referred to the Select Committee on Petitions for Private Bills, who shall report whether the Standing Orders have been complied with, or whether any Report with reference to substantially the same Bill has been previously laid on the Table of the House."

BRAZILIAN SUGAR TRADE.

MR. LABOUCHERE repeated the question which he had put to the right hon. Baronet at the head of the Government yesterday, viz., whether the British Government or Legislature had taken any steps of a retaliatory nature, in consequence of the duties upon their sugar as competing with free-labour sugar which had been adopted by this country?

LORD G. SOMERSET believed that by that Resolution the public interest would be promoted, while ample justice would be done to all the parties interested. It was quite clear that as the other House of Parliament had not yet considered the London and York, or any of the competing schemes, they must, under any circumstances, have before them all the rival projects. His opinion was that the course proposed was the course which would be most advantageous for the promoters of the London and York line, if that line were the best. The public would also be benefited by a thorough investigation of the different proposed schemes of communication between London and York. SIR R. PEEL: I wished to postpone SIR H. W. BARRON wished to re-giving an answer to the question when mind the House and the Government that put to me yesterday, in order that in anit was impossible that the works on a line swering it I might be able to state exactly could be commenced at an earlier period the position in which our relations stand than three months after a Bill had been with respect to our commercial intercourse obtained. In the first place, there must with Brazil. In the month of January, be calls made, and notices given of those 1845, the Brazilian Legislature passed a calls; in the second place, possession of law which empowered the Brazilian Exethe ground must be got, which involved a cutive, in its discretion, to impose upon the very tedious process; and, in the third vessels of those States which had not given place, there must be contracts advertised, the Brazilian vessels the same facilities of so that a considerable time would neces- intercourse which were given to native vessarily elapse before the works on any rail- sels, discriminating duties. The Brazilian way could be commenced. The House Legislature also passed a law authorizing would, therefore, be deceived if they the Government to impose discriminating thought they could give employment in duties to the prejudice of those countries Ireland during the spring, or early in the which did not admit Brazilian produce on summer, by passing any Railway Bill this the footing of the most favoured nation. Session in a manner consistent with the The Brazilian Executive had, by that act usual forms of the House; for it would of the Brazilian Legislature, the power of then be impossible that the works could be imposing discriminating duties unfavourcommenced before August or September able to this country; but the Brazilian Government have not yet acted upon that power, and up to this period we have had no intimation of their intention to act upon it.

next.

The remaining Resolutions, as follows, were agreed to:

"3. Resolved-That all Bills which compete with

ELECTRIC TELEGRAPH.

day was in favour of Mr. Knott's improve-
ment, and that he considered it much more
simple and much less likely to get out of
order than the other. If it were not so, he
could only say he had been deceived.
House adjourned at seven o'clock.

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HOUSE OF LORDS,

Monday, February 9, 1846.
MINUTES. PUBLIC BILLS.-2a. Public Works (Ireland);

Administration of Criminal Justice.

PETITIONS PRESENTED. By Lord Stanley, from Swine

fleet, and several other places, for Protection to Agriculture. By Earl Grey, from Tenants, Farmers, and Agriculturists, of Forfar, for the Immediate Repeal of the Duties on Corn and Provisions; and for an Equalization of the Duties on Sugar.-By Lord Stanley, from the Chamber of Commerce of Limerick, against the Alteration of the Corn Laws, and for the Adoption of a Measure for the Immediate Relief of the Poor of Ireland.— From the Manchester Commercial Association, in favour of the Principles of Free Trade.

MR. JAMES said, he had given notice of a question which he intended to put to the Secretary of the Admiralty; but he had received a communication from that hon. Gentleman, stating that he had gone out of town, but that the right hon. Member for Ripon would be in his place and give him a reply. He begged, therefore, to ask that right hon. Baronet, whether the attention of the First Lord of the Admiralty had been directed to an electric telegraph recently invented by a scientific gentleman of the name of Knott? The machinery of this telegraph, as he understood, was of so simple a nature, was so much less complicated, and less liable to get out of order, than any other telegraph hitherto invented; and could be got, besides, at comparatively so cheap a cost, that it would be of great importance, not only to the Admiralty service, but to the interests of the country at large. He PUBLIC WORKS (IRELAND) BILL. was given to understand that the late First The EARL of ST. GERMANS, in moving Lord of the Treasury (Lord Haddington), the Second Reading of this Bill, briefly after Dr. Faraday, with the principal explained its provisions. With respect to Engineer on the London and Birmingham grants, it would place a further sum of Railway, and other scientific gentlemen, 50,000l. at the disposal of the Board of had reported favourably of it, had given Works, and provide some further facilities orders to the officers of the establishment for making grants; and with respect to over which he had control to make a spe- loans for drainage and other improvements, cial report on the subject. Such a report, it would extend the term for repayment from he understood, was made by Captain Bran- three to twenty years. The Commissioners don and General Pasley; and he wished would be enabled to bring home to the very to know whether the right hon. Gentleman doors of the peasantry the means of profitwould have any objection to state the nature able employment, which was the relief to be of that report, or whether he would have looked to in the present emergency. No any objection to lay it on the Table of the man, too, could have seen the great public House? works executed within the last few years in Clare, Antrim, and other counties, and the effect produced by those improvements, without feeling that a more profitable investment of capital could scarcely be found. The power of consumption on the part of that country was likely thus to be incalculably increased, and the moral and social benefits to be expected should induce them to make every reasonable exertion to promote the progress of those improvements.

SIR G. COCKBURN replied, that it was quite true that Mr. Knott did propose certain alterations or improvements in the electric telegraph, and that the Lords of the Admiralty had requested Captain Brandon and General Pasley to examine it and report upon it, which they had both done unfavourably. General Pasley considered it to be substantially on the same principle as the telegraph at present in use, but with some variations of an inferior kind. General Pasley had likewise stated that Mr. Knott appeared to be little acquainted with the principle of the telegraph, and that, therefore, it would not be wise in the Government to induce him to put himself, and certainly it would not be wise to put the country, to any additional expense on the subject.

MR. JAMES was much obliged to the right hon. Baronet for the information. He understood, decidedly, that Dr. Fara

LORD MONTEAGLE said, it behoved Parliament not only to pass that Bill, but to enact a series of other measures which would improve permanently the condition of the people of Ireland. He had heard it stated that the pressure upon the people of that country was merely slight, and not deserving of all the consideration bestowed upon it; but he could undertake to state to their Lordships, that a more grievous mistake could not possibly exist: the magnitude of the evil and danger awaiting that country

did not seem to have come sufficiently home | ed, however, to call the attention of the to their minds. The Government had not Government to a matter connected with as yet presented to their Lordships the result of the investigations made into the state of distress in Ireland, although those Reports were laid before the other House of Parliament; but he was prepared to state, from his own knowledge of that country, that the condition of the people was the most appalling and distressing that he had ever had occasion to contemplate, even with reference to Ireland. The Report of Messrs. Lindley and Playfair, which was dated as far back as the 15th of November, stated that one-half of the potato crop in Ireland was either lost or altogether unfit for the consumption of man; it also stated that they feared that that was a low estimate, and they adverted to the consequences likely to ensue from a deficiency of seed for next season. Another Report was made subsequently, viz., on the 20th of January, from which the danger, so far from being diminished, appeared to be greatly aggravated. He would read one paragraph from this last Report:-

"It appears from undoubted authority, that of the thirty-two counties in Ireland, not one has escaped the failure in the potato crop; of 130 Poor Law Unions, not one is exempt; of 2,058 electoral divisions, above 1,400 are certainly reported as having suffered; and we have no certainty, until the receipt of the more minute returns now in progress of completion, that the remaining 600 have altogether escaped."

For those persons who were connected with Ireland, this matter opened anticipations of evil without example. They had to deal with the deplorable want of food in the thirty-two counties of Ireland, at the beginning of the year; and this deficiency of food would inevitably be followed by fever and other calamities. The measure just introduced to their Lordships' House he took to be one of a series which Her Majesty's Government intended to bring forward, all of which would have a tendency to act on the present state of things in Ireland. It was far from his intention to undervalue it even as a single measure; but it was most important when taken in connexion with those other measures to which the noble Lord had alluded. He was persuaded that Her Majesty's Government would not only give the distressed state of that country every consideration of which they were capable, and which the subject demanded; but that they would, with as much despatch as it was possible, make every provision they could for the exigencies of the present times. He wish

this question. The noble Earl had mentioned the benefits which were found to be connected with the extension of public works in Ireland. He thought that the treatment of Ireland by Parliament should, in many respects, be one of a wise and generous influence; guiding that country as one which Englishmen must admit to be younger than theirs, and without experience; and which did not know how to render all its enormous natural advantages properly available. Now, the public works undertaken in Ireland, had had the effect of developing the natural resources of that country to a great extent even already; and he must be allowed to say, that, under the system enforced since 1831, the advances made by the State in aid of public works in Ireland had been unaccompanied by any loss. The repayment of all the loans to Ireland had been most rigidly enforced, and were as punctual as they were in England. He highly approved of the accurate and rigid enforcement of the repayment of loans, for it was invariably attended with the best results to the borrowers as well as to the lenders; and he was, therefore, happy to be able to state that in Ireland, loans for public works had been punctually repaid. The effect of the employment of the people on these public works was, to civilize districts which were before almost impervious to law and order; to render the public revenue productive in districts where before smuggling and illicit distillation prevailed; to train up the people to better habits; to make them improved labourers; and in all respects to ameliorate their physical and moral condition. Now, he did not see how they could anticipate any of those salutary results from the relief proposed by Her Majesty's Government in respect of the constabulary force, the expense of which was now charged on the counties; but he wished to persuade the Government and their Lordships in favour of a different distribution of the intended relief. He would assume that the charge on the counties for the constabulary force, amounted to 190,000l. a year. He asked for no larger sum, but he asked for a different distribution. The Government proposal not only would act unjustly, but would act in an inverse ratio to that in which such intervention ought to act. What would be the effect of a general remission of the taxation for the constabulary fund? Take, for instance, the counties of Down

and Tipperary. The county of Down had it would be creating a new epoch of civilbeen uniformly tranquil and peaceable, and ization and improvement in the history of was proportionably prosperous; and conse- Ireland, and would contribute very matequently the expense of the constabulary rially to its general and permanent imforce of Down, in respect to its population, provement. If so large a sum as 190,0007. was infinitely less than that of Tipperary; a year was administered justly, it would which unfortunately had a different charac- call forth funds from other parties in Ireter in the criminal records of Ireland. In land, locally interested in its prosperity, Tipperary there was disturbance: life, it and it would induce public bodies to emwas said, was insecure; property defence-bark capital in that country. He did not less; and consequently there was an enor-suggest that any augmentation should be mous constabulary force. Now, the effect made in the sum proposed to be given; but of the proposed remission of the constabu- if it was given so that the spade, the picklary rates would be, with reference to those axe, and the theodolite were put into requitwo counties, that the county which had sition-if it was so appropriated, that the been most disturbed, would derive the labourer and the artisan could be kept congreater advantage; whilst less, and scarcely stantly and usefully employed-it would be any, benefit would be conferred upon the doing much more practical good for the county, which was always in a state of people of Ireland than could ever result peace and tranquillity. It was not just to from the remission of local burdens to any give relief in such a way; and he was, amount. He wished the course adopted moreover, doubtful whether this relief would by Parliament should be such as would proimprove the character and relations of the duce a perpetual effect upon the improveconstabulary force itself. The constabulary ment of the condition of the country. He force was admirably disciplined, and he had was aware that the feeling of gratitude enalways supported it, on account of the tertained for the mere repeal or remission benefits derived from it; but it would lose of a tax-the most unpopular that could be its character and much of its efficiency if it did not carry with it the good feeling of the local magistracies of the counties. Entirely dissevered from the magistracy, and paid exclusively by the Government, he was afraid it would assume too much of the character of a foreign gens-d'armerie.ple of Ireland from paying in the shape of If the Government did not at present taxes that a just and useful influence possess sufficient control with respect to should be exercised over them, and that the constabulary, he had no objection to they should, in the manner he (Lord Montgive them sufficient powers; but let them eagle) suggested, be kept properly emnot dissociate the force from the local ployed. He approved entirely of the prinauthorities. Besides, he would impress ciple and object of the Bill; but he wished on the attention of the Government this to avail himself of that opportunity to excircumstance. If there was an increase press his opinions with reference to the of disturbances now in any county or dis-measures about to be submitted to Parliatrict in Ireland, the police should be in- ment: as Her Majesty's Government was creased there. The farmers were alarmed not pledged to them, his suggestions might at the increase of the county-rate, conse- be of some service. quent upon the increase of disturbances; and their anxiety to diminish public rates was at present a kind of tie on them to assist, and to exert themselves in assisting, in the preservation of the peace of the county, and of the particular locality in which they lived. For these reasons he was averse to the Government proposal; for he thought that if the 190,000l. a year, proposed to be remitted in the manner suggested by Her Majesty's Government were appropriated in a different way—in the construction of public works and other improvements which would give employment to the people

did not survive, in the minds of the people, even the very Session of Parliament in which that tax had been repealed. What he wished for therefore was, that Her Majesty's Government would so appropriate the sum they proposed to exempt the peo

'The DUKE of WELLINGTON said, that though the proposition relating to Ireland, to which the noble Lord had referred, had been intimated to Parliament, yet it was not before their Lordships' House, nor was it likely to come before their Lordships' House for some time. He could assure the noble Lord, who had explained his suggestion to him last Friday, that he had taken it into consideration, and had conversed and communicated on the subject with others more likely than himself to have influence over the matter. So short a space of time, however, had passed since the no

ble Lord mentioned the subject to him, that | home in the construction of public works, he could not at the present moment say and in developing its resources, which, to that it was intended to adopt the noble the disgrace of this country, had lain dorLord's suggestion. It had appeared that mant for upwards of 600 years. His Lordthe proper mode of proceeding in respect to ship next adverted to the alarming and apthe police force in Ireland, which consti- palling statement of the distress in Ireland tuted a tax on the land, was the same as which had been made by Lord Monteagle, and that proposed to be adopted in relation to said that that had induced him at that early charges on land in this country. The Com- period to address the House. Many of their mission over which his noble Friend near Lordships might recollect the condition of him (the Earl of Devon) presided, had that country in 1817, when it appeared from strongly recommended the very measure official returns that 65,000 persons passed now proposed the entire relief of the Irish through the fever hospitals of Dublin. He counties from the cost of maintaining the feared that they were now about to witness police force, which it was suggested should a similar state of things; and it behoved be placed entirely in the hands of the Go- their Lordships to adopt all possible means vernment. The Commission to which he of averting such a calamity. He trusted referred made a very strong recommenda- that the measures proposed would be the tion on this subject; and he entreated their advent of a new and better era in the hisLordships to pause before they came to any tory of England and Ireland. He was indetermination with reference to matters duced to believe that the measure now prowhich they would hereafter be called upon posed by the Government, if followed up, to consider, when they came to take into would tend more to cement the union betheir consideration the recommendations of tween this country and Ireland than any that Commission. He could assure their which had been proposed. It would, in Lordships that the Government were most fact, unite them, almost in spite of themanxious to give due attention to the wants selves. It would bring the poverty of Ireof the Irish people, and that they were fully land to compete with the wealth of England, sensible of the importance of developing the and to form an equilibrium between the great resources of that country. The Go- labour of the two countries—an equilibrium vernment had in contemplation measures which he wished to see established, but for effecting these objects; and he hoped upon a sound basis. He wished on this that, in the course of the Session, those account to see the Irish peasant elevated measures which were intended to afford into a better position than the agricultural efficient relief to the people of Ireland labourers in many districts of England, and would receive the sanction of Parliament. than the hand-loom weavers in the manuHe wished that his noble Friend (Lord facturing towns. Under any circumstances Monteagle) had thought proper to postpone it would be gratifying to him if the emhis remarks until the measures to which he ployment of the Irish people were less de(the Duke of Wellington) had referred, pendent upon the land. In 1825, Mr. came regularly before the House; because Leslie Foster told them the Irish must his noble Friend might rely, that whenever have land, for they depended upon it. he gave any suggestions into his hands, That word must' had dreadful power; they would fairly undergo the consideration and therefore he contended that generosity, of the Government. He begged to assure justice, gratitude, policy, and interest, all the noble Lord, that he had repeated to his combined to show the necessity of giving right hon. Friend, Sir R. Peel, exactly as much employment as possible, and in what had been stated to him on Friday such a mode as was contemplated in the night by the noble Lord as to his views on present Bill, to the people of Ireland. this subject.

LORD STOURTON felt he should be wanting in his duty both to England and Ireland, if he did not express his hearty concurrence with the measure which had been proposed by the Government for the benefit and relief of the Irish people, both moral and social, by the encouragement of public works in that country. He believed it would be of great benefit to England that the labour of Ireland should be absorbed at

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The EARL of DEVON entirely concurred in the opinion expressed by his noble Friend (Lord Stourton) as to the importance of finding employment for the people of Ireland, and of employing them in the prosecution of works attended with the advantage of improving the country. There would be no difference of opinion, he apprehended, upon the Bill now before the House, considering its object, nor any doubt that it would be read the second time; but he did

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