taxation. He believed, that if this course | upon the land was in consequence of some were carried much farther, it would be corresponding benefit conferred upon the exceedingly dangerous to the credit of the landed interest. The application of the country. Passing from these two points, principle to which he referred, might be he now came to the question of local taxa- easily ascertained. He believed that the tion, which his noble Friend (Lord Beau- finest prairie land in Western America mont) had represented in such a strong might be purchased in fee-simple at a light as affording a great claim for com- dollar, or about 4s. per acre; he meant pensation to the landed interest. His land fit for producing the most valuable noble Friend had told the House of an crops: whereas in England the rent of the income tax of 12 per cent. on the real best land, intrinsically no better than the property of the country. Now, he (Earl American land, was 40s. or 50s. How Grey) did not quite understand his noble did it happen, then, that in America the Friend's calculation. The income tax to fee-simple of land might be acquired at which his noble Friend referred, the poor one-tenth the price which an occupier of rate, was not imposed upon land alone, but land in this country would have to pay by upon houses, railroads, and canals. With way of rental? It was what were called respect to the exemption of stock in trade the burdens on land which thus enhanced from assessment to the poor rate, the noble its value. The poor rates arose from a Lord on the cross benches had told their dense population; but the demand for agriLordships how very ill the principle of as- cultural produce sprung from the same sessing stock in trade to the poor rate cause; and the maintenance of the poor worked in Scotland; and he (Earl Grey) was a small price to pay for the vast inwas sure that, if an attempt was made in crease in the value of land which a high this country to rate every man according state of civilization occasioned. The exto the estimated amount of his "means and pense of maintaining the roads was mensubstance," as in Scotland, the country tioned as a reason why favour should be would be extremely dissatisfied. The poor shown to the landed interest. Surely, rate was now charged upon the value of there was no class of society which derived land and houses, and not upon the land. so much advantage from the roads as the In fact, the dispute about stock in trade agriculturists. As to the turnpike roads, began between the titheowner and the they were maintained by the parties who farmer, and not with the manufacturers, for used them; and with regard to the other the titheowner wished to make the farmer roads, they were rather a source of profit pay for the stock on his farm as his stock than of expense to the landed interest. in trade, and the farmer very properly re- To go back, however, to the subject of the sisted the imposition. This was the origin poor rates: in a thinly populated country of the temporary Acts of Parliament passed there were no poor; for every man could to exempt stock in trade from liability to get land, and by the most ordinary exercise the poor rate; but these Acts applied as of industry could maintain a family; but in much to farming stock as to the stock in proportion as population increased, land trade of the tradesman or manufacturer. became more valuable and more difficult to In his opinion, the existing arrangements be obtained; rents rose, and poor rates on this subject were right; it would be became unavoidable; so soon as money impossible to ascertain the "means and rents came into use, the difficulty of prosubstance" of all parties residing in aviding for the poor increased, but concurparish; and he believed that a poor rate rently with that there arose a vast increase could not be levied in this manner. But in the value of land. Land was now there was one principle which applied twenty-fold more valuable than it was 400 equally to all these different rates, of which years ago; but as this increased value of the noble Lord who introduced the Motion land was occasioned by an increase of popuhad given their Lordships rather a formi-lation, and as pauperism arose out of popudable list, not even excluding the militia rate, which had not been levied for many years, and which he, for one, hoped would never be levied again; it was this-that, notwithstanding all these burdens of which so much had been said, land in this country bore a higher value than it did, for this obvious reason, that every burden laid

lousness, and as the landowners were the greatest gainers by the density of the population, they ought not to complain of paying the cost of that which was so much for their own advantage. Upon whom could the burden so properly fall as upon those who gained by it? And again, to recur to the subject of roads: the existence

of roads within and in the vicinity of an | did not exactly prevent, but, at the same estate, formed its greatest possible recom- time, it checked and discouraged the grantmendation as a marketable article. In ing of leases, which it was important to offering an estate for sale, it was the prac- encourage as much as possible, with a view tice of Mr. Robins, and other skilful auc- to the improved cultivation of the land. It tioneers, to say that it possessed easy ac- also prevented the acquisition of small freecess to the best markets by means of good holds, a subject which he knew was not roads. A manufacturer might as well claim very popular in some quarters just now; exemption from the cost of using gaslights but he believed that nothing could be more in his mill, as a landowner claim com- advantageous than to encourage persons to pensation for maintaining the roads in invest their small savings in land. That, his neighbourhood. He would not enter therefore, was a charge which the House further into the question of the manner in would do well to get rid of; and if any which the remaining rates operated to the commutation of taxes could be made, by advantage of the land; it was enough to which this tax upon conveyances could be say, that the same principle applied to them abolished, he should agree that the comalso. In his belief, they were all payments mutation would be very advantageous, not in return for value received. He would to the landed interest only, but to the naask their Lordships for a moment to con- tion at large. This single tax excepted, sider whether the owners of land in the re- wherever he looked, he found, not special mote districts of Canada or America would burdens on the land, but special exempnot most gladly pay very much larger tions. Some jokes had been made about charges than those which had been ad- shepherds' dogs and agricultural horses; verted to, if by so doing they could obtain but he really wished to know why agriculthe same advantages as those which their tural horses were to be exempted from Lordships enjoyed, namely, good roads, taxation any more than the horses of a good markets, and the efficient administra- brewer, for instance, with whom they were tion of the law. They were not charges as much stock in trade as with the agriculwhich fell on the capital of the farmer, but turist? He would not detain their Lordwere, every one of them, charges which fell ships much longer; but he thought the If a farmer were going to take House would be doing wisely by leaving a farm, the first question he asked was, the distribution of the public burdens to what was the amount of the rates? be- others. The less they inquired into the cause, if they were heavy, he offered a less peculiar burdens on agriculture the better. rent than he otherwise would be willing to He himself should be perfectly ready, in pay; and, if they were light, he, of course, the hope of passing so large and useful a offered more for the farm. Although, measure as that which was now before the therefore, these rates were paid by the far- Legislature, to acquiesce in the concessions mer in the first instance, they were in which it was thought advisable to offer to reality a deduction from the rent, to which, the agricultural interest. But, although as he had endeavoured to show, their Lord- he did not intend to object to these concesships would do well to submit. Before he sions, he could not help recommending their concluded, he had only one or two words Lordships not to press these inquiries too to say with respect to the general taxation far. The topics to which he had already of the country. With regard to that point, adverted, were not unknown to those whose he thought that the accompaniment offered vision was clear enough to see the weak to the Motion by his noble Friend near points in the case of the landowner, and him (Lord Monteagle) was a most valuable who had energy enough to press those addition to it. Out of every species of topics, if necessary, to a trying conclusion. burden imposed upon the landed interest, If the landowner attempted to drive a hard he (Earl Grey) only knew one of which bargain with these Gentlemen, it would they had just ground to complain, and that lead them to look at the matter in a very was the stamp duty on conveyances. He different temper to that in which they had believed, that of all the impolitic taxes that hitherto viewed it, and to put forward arever were imposed, that was the most im-guments which it would be very difficult for politic. By the heavy charges on conveyances, it prevented the landholder, when the money market was easy, paying off one mortgage at a higher rate of interest, and mortgaging his land at the lower rate.

on rent.

It

the landowner to meet, and inconvenient to concede. In France, it had been stated in the House of Commons by the hon. Member for Sheffield, in the year 1838, that out of an income of 42,000,0007, in that

year, no less than 10,000,000l., being one- as to the expediency of the Motion made fourth of the whole, was contributed by a by the noble Lord, and those doubts had direct tax upon real property. In Austria been considerably increased by the discusrather more than one-half of the public sion which had taken place; for it apburdens were borne by real property. It peared to him that the Committee was was the ancient policy of this country to more likely to be a scene of wrangling throw a great part of the public charges about general principles, than productive of on land, in the same manner; and in the any practical facts. At the same time early ages of our history, the title upon certain questions of general principle had which the whole soil of the kingdom was been mooted, to which he (Lord Ashburton) granted, was that of providing the charges would briefly advert. The first was, wheof the military defences: subject to that ther tithe was or was not a charge upon burden the whole of the landed property of land. This was not a new question. It England was acquired by its original pro- had been argued by practical men and by prietors. And to a later period the same political economists of every variety of policy was continued; up to the time of tenet; but it had very seldom been denied till the Revolution, the land bore a very large to-night that it was a charge at all. There part of the public taxation. In the reign had, however, been various opinions relative of William the Third a tax of 4s. in the to the amount of the charge. Mr. Ricardo, pound was levied upon the land. That tax in the year 1822, when he proposed a duty continued of the same nominal amount; but on wheat, which was to vary from 10s. up the valuation of 1692 being adhered to, to 20s., the minimum being 10s., said, “I the burden remained nominally the same, will state the ground upon which I calcubut it had really become a mere trifle. late this duty. I find it stated in the eviThe whole valuation of real property sub- dence before the House of Commons, that jeet to the land tax in 1692, was only about the whole of the charges which the farmer 10,000,000l., because at that time a tax of is taxed to pay, are principally tithe and 1s. in the pound produced only 500,000l. poor rate, which amount to 10s. per a year; and to make up the ten millions he quarter." Mr. Ricardo admitted this to was much mistaken if in the land tax were be a charge, and he measured his pronot included salaries and income from per-posed duty by the consideration of what sonal property and other sources, to a great was the burden. It was said, however, extent. Now, by the recent valuation under the Income Tax Act-a Return of which had been laid before the House of Commons, containing the valuation for England and Wales-it appeared that real property only, strictly so called--he meant houses, lands, manors, tithes, and mineswere worth no less than 85,000,000l. a year; and that valuation excluded all in-charge upon the land. comes under 150l. a year.

that although tithe was a tax before the Commutation Act, in consequence of that commutation it was no longer a charge. This seemed at first a startling paradox, and a proposition not easily answered.

LORD BEAUMONT explained. He had said, that tithe was not a tax upon the capital employed in cultivation, but a direct

Therefore the LORD ASHBURTON said, the noble land was now only bearing the charge im- Lord contended that tithe was a charge posed upon that property when it was less before the commutation; but after comthan one-eighth of its present value. These mutation it ceased to be a charge. Now, were things well known to many clear- he (Lord Ashburton) could not make out sighted men, who could urge them with how that proposition was supported. Ungreat effect; and he would beg, with great doubtedly the tithe commutation was a berespect, to suggest that, as in that House nefit, as it enabled proprietors more freely they did not originate measures of taxation, to cultivate the soil without any fear of the so they should show their great prudence charge being proportionately increased; but in abstaining from agitating this question. the charge still remained. If any of their He had to apologize for occupying their Lordships had an estate of 1,000l. a year, time so long; but this was a subject of such upon which he (Lord Ashburton) had a deep interest, and leading to such prac-mortgage of 500l., and he lived in the tical conclusions, that, differing so widely same parish, the landed proprietor paid for as he did from some noble Lords who pre- the church, from which he (Lord Ashburceded him, he could not suffer their argu-ton) derived as much benefit as the owner ments to pass without some reply. of the estate. Yet they were told the land incurred no charge, and the land in some

LORD ASHBURTON had great doubts

not only to that, but to every other interest in the country. His noble Friend spoke of America and Canada, where they could get land for 4s. an acre in fee-simple, which in this country could not be got for 40s. a year rent; but the additional value given to the land here as compared with land in America, was not the fact as stated by him --a consequence of improved manufactures and greater wealth: it was owing to the fact that there were no inhabitants in those countries sufficient to raise its value. There was this great distinction between the two cases, that in this country the land was greatly increased in value by the price of labour; whereas its sole value in the rich prairies of the West was just according to the amount of the produce raised. They might as well set a value on the land where our first parents were placed in the Garden of Eden, and where there were none but themselves to cultivate the acres that lay before them in the world, as compare the value of land in America with what it was in this country. The cases were altogether different; and it was a confounding of their understandings to mix two such questions together. Seeing that the general opinion of the House was favourable to the Committee, he could only say he wished the noble Lord well through with it, and that he had a grave apprehension that no benefit would be derived from its appointment.

shape or other was entitled to no consi- no objection to the Committee; but he deration in consequence of bearing a charge must state his own conviction, that profor a service which was of benefit to the tection, or compensation, or whatever name whole community. It was impossible by they chose to give it, in some shape or any process of reasoning to come to the con- other, was justly due to the land, and that clusion that tithes ceased to be a charge, if it was abandoned, they would produce by from the fact of their having been com-impoverishment of the land misfortunes, muted. Their Lordships were aware, that before the Commutation Act a great portion of the tithes was commuted by particular arrangements with individuals, and this was a fact which those who held the views of the noble Lord seemed never to take into account. Their Lordships should also bear in mind that if the land, in consequence of the cessation of protection should go out of cultivation, as was apprehended (justly he thought) by the landed interest that portion of the land which would go out of cultivation, would be just that which paid tithe. It was, therefore, a direct charge upon the cultivation. The pressure coming upon them, successive varieties of soil would go out of cultivation, beginning with the poor, and rising up to the higher. It appeared to him, therefore, that cultivation would be prevented, and that tithes were a charge upon the landlord, and not upon the tenant. Much discussion had been advanced with respect to various other charges on the land, such as the poor rate and the land tax-both of these, undoubtedly, originally applied to every description of property; but what had been the practice? It had been found out that the poor rate could not fall upon other descriptions of property with anything like effect, as it was felt to be a sort of inquisition; and it was therefore levied as a charge upon the land only; and, singularly enough, the Poor Law Statute of Elizabeth, which was enforced in America, was still held there to include all kinds of property. The assessor in that country imposed what he pleased, and it lay with the proprietor to make out his own particular case of exemption, if he had any. It was the same with respect to the land tax in our own time; and a Bill had been brought into Parliament for the purpose of relieving the property in the town of Taunton, which he then represented, from the burden of that tax. He differed entirely from his noble Friend as to the propriety of making out plans, balancing inequalities of taxation on one side with inequalities on the other. That did not appear to him to be a right principle of legislation, unless they could make up their minds to level all inequalities together. On the general principle, he had

to.

LORD BEAUMONT briefly replied.
Amendment and original Motion agreed

House adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS,

Monday, February 16, 1846.
MINUTES NEW MEMBER SWORN.-For Rutland, George

Finch, Esq.

PUBLIC BILLS.-1. Salmon Fisheries.
Reported.-County Works Presentments (Ireland).

3o and passed.-Fishery Piers and Harbours (Ireland).

PETITIONS PRESENTED.—By Lord John Russell, from Im

porters, Dealers, and Consumers of Foreign Coffee, for Reduction of Duty.-By several hon. Members, from a great number of places, against, and by several hon. Members, from various places, in favour, of a Repeal of the Corn Laws.-By Sir John Hanmer, from the Inhabitants of Kingston-upon-Hull, for Reduction in the Timber Duties, and immediate Repeal of the Corn Laws.-By Mr. Hume, from Tenant Farmers, and others, of Cortachy and Tanadice, for Alteration of Duties on Corn and Sugar. By several hon. Members, from an immense

number of places, against the Government Measure re- | power of attorney, instead of personally; lating to Customs and Corn Importation; and, also by