The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Sweet.

Mr. SWEET. He also referred to Gerald Winrod, a Kansas minister of the gospel. Do you really think, Mr. Collier, he is trying to foment revolution in the United States?

Mr. COLLIER. I would say that I do not know whether he is or is not. I merely placed in the record a copy of his magazine with a typical Indian Federation article contained therein.

Mr. SWEET. Out in the Middle west where I live we consider Mr. Winrod a protestant against various activities in the country but we have never considered him to be a dangerous citizen.

Mr. COLLIER. By himself he would not be dangerous. None of these things by themselves would be dangerous but only as they get drawn into a converging flow of influence.

Mr. SWEET. Do you think he has been interfering with the orderly processes of administration among the Indians in the United States? Mr. COLLIER. I beg pardon?

Mr. SWEET. Do you really think that through his activities he has. been interfering with or attempting to disturb the orderly processes of Indian administration in the United States?

Mr. COLLIER. Indian administration? No; he touched on Indian administration only a little.

Mr. SCHAFER. He denounces the Communists bitterly and denounces the Communists and the fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth, ninth, and tenth columns operating in the New Deal.

Mr. COLLIER. What his wife says is reported in the papers.

Mr. SCHAFER. What his wife says in a divorce suit-many allegations are made in divorce suits.

Mr. COLLIER. I would answer that Winrod's type of activity is out on the periphery of fifth-column activity.

Mr. SWEET. I think that is all.

Mr. SCHAFER. Do you have any definite evidence, I don't mean hearsay or supposition or wishful thinking. Do you have any definite, positive, clear evidence indicating that the Reverend Winrod is an agent of a foreign government receiving pay direct or indirect from any foreign government?

Mr. COLLIER. I have not said he was. My reference to Winrod consists exclusively of the fact his newspaper carried one American Indian Federation article. I put that in the record.

Mr. SCHAFER. Do you put a brand on a newspaper because of articles which it carries in a country where we have a free press? Mr. COLLIER. I am not concerned with Winrod at all.

Mr. SCHAFER. I am glad to hear that. If you are going to condemn a man as a fifth columnist because of one article which appears in his paper there would be many condemnations if we analyzed all of the articles which appear in all papers.

Mr. COLLIER. These remarks are not addressed to anything I have said. I have not said anything about Winrod. I don't know much about him.

Mrs. BOLTON. He is on the chart.

Mr. COLLIER. He is one of those with whom the Federation is connected and is a strenuous anti-Semite.

Mrs. BOLTON. He is anti-Communist.

Mr. SCHAFER. Just a minute. He is a strenuous anti-Communist, is he not? And the only hook-up with your so-called fifth column of

the Reverend Mr. Winrod is the fact that one of his papers carried an article from this Joan of Arc, Mrs. Jemison. You hook him up with the fifth column just because he issues a paper and an article appeared written by Mrs. Jemison?

Mr. COLLIER. Of course, we know there are two phases of NaziCommunist effort. The second phase commenced when Russia openly did what so many people expected Russia to do, fuse with the Nazis. You have to break all of this propaganda down in the historical phases. There was a time when the Communists were attacking Nazis in Europe and in this country. Now there are no defenders of Nazi-ist war policy more consistent and obdurate than are Communists.

Mr. SCHAFER. At the same time the New Deal was defending and receiving support from the Communist fifth column. It chaperoned them and had them right under their wing. In fact, I have on my desk November 1938 Communist campaign literature circulated in Milwaukee by the Communist Party asking that the voters support the New Deal by sending Progressive and Democrat New Deal rubber stamps to Congress.

I ask at this point in the record to insert extracts from that Communist campaign literature.

Mr. COLLIER. The New Deal has not sponsored communism but is an enemy of communism as it is of nazi-ism.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Schafer asks unanimous consent to have inserted at this point in the record extracts from-

Mr. SCHAFER. Communist campaign literature circulated in Wisconsin and authorized and paid for by the Communist Party in the 1938 campaign asking the voters to elect Progressive and Democrat New Deal rubber stamps to Congress in order to give support to President Roosevelt and the New Deal.

The CHAIRMAN. If there is no objection the request is granted. Mr. SCHAFER. I hold in my hand campaign literature issued in the November 1938 political campaign by the "Communist Party of Wisconsin, 744 North Fourth Street, room 329, Milwaukee, Wis."

This campaign literature was authorized, paid for, and circulated by the Communist Party of Wisconsin.

Page 1 of this Communist election campaign pamphlet states "Keep Wisconsin a Progressive New Deal State."

This Communist political campaign literature states:

If we want to improve the gains made under the New Deal, and the Progressive administration, now is the time to do it.

And also states:

A smashing victory for the New Deal nationally and for the Progressive administration in Wisconsin will consolidate the gains of the New Deal and make possible a new push forward.

The last paragraph of this Communist 1938 election campaign literature states:

Elect Progressives and New Dealers to Congress and the Senate who will give active support to the New Deal, and who will not join with the reactionary opponents of Roosevelt.

The CHAIRMAN. Have you any further questions, Mr. Schafer?

Mr. SCHAFER. Have you any definite proof that any agent of any foreign country wrote the report, the Senate report, or contributed to the writing of the Senate committee report on S. 2103?

Mr. COLLIER. I have nothing to say about that beyond what I have said. It is as clear as I can make it. I stand on the record.

Mr. SCHAFER. You have no definite proof.

Mr. COLLIER. I can only repeat what I have said and what was said back to me so very well by two members of this committee.

Mr. SCHAFER. In answer to the question propounded by Mr. O'Connor you absolved the Senate Committee on Indian Affairs and the Senate from wittingly putting forward a fifth-column program, did you not?

Mr. COLLIER. Surely.

Mr. SCHAFER. But at the same time your testimony so far indicates they unwittingly succumbed to this fifth-column blitzkrieg?

Mr. COLLIER. Something was put over on them.

Mr. SCHAFER. And, therefore, that the members of the Senate committee and the Members of the Senate who passed this bill and sent the bill with this report over to this committee were asleep at their post and permitted a fifth-column Joan of Arc to carry on a blitzkrieg and overcome the committee and the Senate?

Mr. COLLIER. That is correct. My remark was that in this matter, a very important matter, the committee had unconsciously been encircled. Those are the words I used.

Mr. SCHAFER. You brought this matter out on this bill in order that this Joan of Arc leading the fifth-column blitzkrieg will not overcome the members of this committee?

Mr. COLLIER. I brought it out because it is squarely here and had to be dealt with. And this bill came here supported by that report. Mr. SCHAFER. Do you have any definite evidence other than hearsay or opinion, which would indicate that Mrs. Jemison or Pocahontas, as you call her, the Joan of Arc leading the fifth-column blitzkrieg is directly or indirectly on the pay roll, or an agent of, any foreign government?

Mr. COLLIER. I have submitted-you were not here, Mr. Schafer, I will go back and repeat, because you were not here.

Mr. SCHAFER. I am sorry. I tried to get here, but so many people are coming in telling me not to be Santa Claus for foreign nations and asking that I do what I can to keep the United States out of the war I could not get over here at 10:30.

Mr. COLLIER. I, at a good deal of length, showed Mr. Henry Allen's connections with the bund and with many Fascist agencies. I referred to files of Henry Allen in possession of a branch of this Government here in Washington. I referred to Allen's letters in those files in which he reports that he has, in behalf of Conrad Chapman, who was tied up with Mrs. Jewett and Mrs. Fry, transmitted two payments to Mrs. Jemison in the form, one of a draft and the other of a cashier's check. It merely happens that that evidence is available in files here.

Mr. SCHAFER. How much were the payments?
Mr. COLLIER. $100 in each case.

next month.

$100 one month and $100 the

Mr. SCHAFER. For what services rendered?

Mr. COLLIER. In one the stated service was writing things for the Christian Free Press. There was no stated service in the other case. Mr. SCHAFER. Well, that doesn't link this Mrs. Jemison up with any foreign power, does it?

Mr. COLLIER. Allen is as linked as it is possible for anybody to be linked with Schwinn, the agent for the bund on the west coast, and with the bund. And Mrs. Fry and Mrs. Jewett, as it is possible to be linked with the bund. I have never said, and, in fact I expressly did not say that these funds came from the German Government. We have no evidence to that effect. You can be sure we wouldn't ever have that evidence if it existed.

Mr. SCHAFER. A newspaper or a magazine pays for articles, which are submitted and which they use?

Mr. COLLIER. Yes; they may pay.

Mr. SCHAFER. And the fact that a newspaper pays for an article written by any person whether it is Mrs. Jemison or not would not be an indication that the receiver of that money in payment for the article is connected with a foreign government; would it?

Mr. COLLIER. It is just as I stated it. I also put in the record earlier the James True appeal and correspondence between True and Allen in which True expressed delight at the way Allen and his group were assisting Mrs. Jemison.

Mr. SCHAFER. Is that James True from Washington?

Mr. COLLIER. Yes.

Mr. SCHAFER. Do you have any evidence indicating that the socalled bund is directly or indirectly linked to any foreign government? It is easy to make allegations about a fellow or anybody being a fifth columnist. In fact, I have in my office newspaper articles indicating that I was a Nazi plotter to overthrow the Government and then Ï have articles circulated by Mr. Edmondson stating that I was a stooge for Communist-Jewish people because I introduced a bill to register and regulate firearms.

Mr. COLLIER. My reply would be in the case of the bund it would be at least as conclusive as the case of the present Communist Party. It is conclusive. Each of them and both of them are acting in behalf not of the United States, but of foreign powers.

Mr. SCHAFER. I know, with reference to the Communist Party because I have their literature, a 72-page pamphlet put out by the Communist Publishing Co., in which they definitely, positively and directly state that they are linked to Moscow through the Third International. This publication states that communists are behind this Harry Bridges movement and a great many of the C. I. O. movements which have been permitted to run wild. A person's hair would almost stand on end if they read this Communist literature indicating how the communists are going to butcher and murder the so-called capitalists in the red revolution which they plan for the United States.

Mr. COLLIER. The link is even closer. The Dairy Worker which is the organ of the Communist Party does not get daily orders from the Third International. Yet there could hardly be imagined more stubborn, consistent, and adroit defense of Soviet and Nazi activity as of the present than you find in the Daily Worker day by day.

Mrs. BOLTON. Will the gentleman yield? I wonder if the Commissioner is aware there are over 900 publications brought out by the Communist Party in this country and that a very large part of those are printed in this country.

Mr. COLLIER. I am sure-I do not know the number-I am sure there are a great many.