Mr. HOSFORD. I shall be glad to avail myself of that privilege, Senator.

I would like, in closing, just to leave these three thoughts with the committee. First, we are definitely, as to the group in western Pennsylvania, in favor of regulation of prices and of the application of the principle of allocation. We are in favor of that as a part of the broad program of stabilizing conditions, as expressed in title I and title II of the act; and I can say quite frankly that we feel that title I will not be effective without title II, and vice versa. I could not endorse any plan which would involve the adoption of one title without the inclusion of the other.

In the second place, we are sailing an unknown sea with allocation. I feel, as previous witnesses have felt, that there should be a definite limitation in the bill. Let us say, it should be for a period of 2 years.

Senator NEELY. If we are sailing at all, we should be happier than we were a few years ago, when the whole industry was shipwrecked.

Mr. HOSFORD. There is no doubt of that, Senator, but why chart a course which will lead us onto the rocks that we cannot see now? I have been on too many rocks within the last 15 years, and I do not want to get on any more if I can avoid them; and I see no harm in forcing our industry at the end of a 2-year period to take stock again and then arrive at a program which undoubtedly can be made definitely permanent.

As to the marketing provisions which I have discussed with you, I am frank to admit that there you will find not universal opposition, but a great deal of opposition to that. I have never heard any plan which I believe definitely, clearly and precisely solved this problem of how to regulate the price of coal.

I firmly believe that there must be left in our industry some power to adjust itself to meet its own problems, and I do not believe that that problem can best be solved by any too rigid plan. I do not believe that it is physically possible to have any one commission in Washington or elsewhere, to do that job for our industry. For that reason I think we should be regulated under a commission that has broad general powers, but permitted, at least during this period of experimentation on allocation, to retain a certain amount or degree of autonomy.

My attention has been called to the fact that I did not clearly express my view that the 2-year limitation should apply to the marketing provisions as well as to the provisions regulating allocation; and I wish it to be clearly understood that it is the judgment of our group that these marketing provisions should likewise be imposed only for a period of 2 years and subject to review at the expiration of that time.

Senator NEELY. The committee will adjourn until next Monday morning at 10:30 o'clock.

(Thereupon, at 12: 40 p. m., the committee adjourned to meet at 10:30 a. m., Monday, Feb. 25, 1935.)

STABILIZATION OF BITUMINOUS COAL MINING

INDUSTRY

MONDAY, FEBRUARY 25, 1935

UNITED STATES SENATE,

SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE COMMITTEE ON INTERSTATE COMMERCE, Washington, D. C.

The subcommittee met, pursuant to adjournment, in the caucus room, 318 Senate Office Building, at 10:30 a. m., Senator M. M. Neely (chairman) presiding.

Present: Senators Neely (chairman), Minton, and Davis.

Present also: Hon. Joseph F. Guffey, a Senator from the State of Pennsylvania.

Senator NEELY. Judge Warrum, you may proceed.

FURTHER STATEMENT OF HENRY WARRUM, REPRESENTING THE UNITED MINE WORKERS OF AMERICA

Mr. WARRUM. Mr. Chairman, the other day I offered two charts; one containing the figures set up by the United States Bureau of Mines, and the other, the smaller chart, containing a break-down of the figures, to show the shifts in percentage over the 1934 production and the shifts in tonnage. The smaller chart that was issued is correct as to the percentages but is incorrect as to the tonnages. For that reason I would like to offer this chart, either as a substitute for the other, or at least as a correction of the other.

Senator NEELY. All right. It occurs to the committee that it would probably be better to substitute this chart and omit the inaccurate one in the record.

Mr. WARRUM. All right, if I may, Mr. Chairman. (The corrected chart is as follows:)

131

STATEMENT OF VAN A. BITTNER, REPRESENTING THE UNITED MINE WORKERS OF AMERICA

Mr. BITTNER. Mr. Chairman, my name is Van A. Bittner. I am president of district 17, United Mine Workers of America; also a member of the Bituminous Labor Board, Division 1, South, and a member of the National Bituminous Coal Labor Board under the Code of Fair Competition for the Bituminous Industry, Charleston, W. Va.

Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, representing the mine workers of West Virginia, I desire to say that we are entirely in accord with the enactment of the Guffey bill. Our experience in the industry has certainly taught us that it is absolutely necessary to have permanent Federal regulation of the bituminous-coal industry in order that the industry might live and prosper.

I do not think it is necessary to go into the past condition of the industry, because that is too well known to everybody that has taken any interest in the affairs of bituminous coal throughout the United States; but I have been an officer of the mine workers' organization now for about 27 years, and I know from my own experience and from a thousand contacts of coal operators that it is necessary to have Federal regulation of this industry.

There is quite an opposition being fostered against the bill in some of the newspapers in West Virginia, but I just want to say this to the committee, that that is not anything unusual. The same sort of sentiment was expressed in editorials in newspapers throughout West Virginia against the National Industrial Recovery Act; in fact, the day before the National Industrial Recovery Act was passed by Congress Mr. Jesse Sullivan, the secretary of the West Virginia Coal Operators' Association, gave out a statement that it was unthinkable that the American Congress would pass such a law as the National Industrial Recovery Act; that the passage of the National Industrial Recovery Act would destroy the coal-mining industry of West Virgina, the industry upon which the great majority of the citizens of that State depend. Those operators have never been able to do much for themselves, and they have always assumed an attitude that they wanted to be left alone in their mad desire, as it seems to me, to destroy themselves.

I just mention that to show you that this sentiment against any measure that means progress has always had the opposition of these people. I am sure today that the same people that stated the National Industrial Recovery Act would destroy the coal-mining industry of West Virginia would tell you that if you did not have the National Industrial Recovery Act or some other Federal regulation of their industry it would destroy itself. That is the position that we find them in now.

Senator NEELY. Mr. Bittner, briefly, what has been the effect of the National Industrial Recovery Act and the adoption of the bituminous coal code under it so far as the coal industry of West Virginia is concerned?

Mr. BITTNER. If you will permit me, Mr. Chairman, I will go into a brief history of the National Industrial Recovery Act and its relation to the coal industry in West Virginia.