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ECS HAS NOT MADE A DETAILED STUDY REGARDING WHICH FEDERAL PROGRAMS
SHOULD OR SHOULD NOT BE CONSOLIDATED IN A SEPARATE DEPARTMENT OF
EDUCATION. WE RECOGNIZE, HOWEVER, THAT A NUMBER OF FEDERAL PROGRAMS
WITH EDUCATION IMPLICATIONS ARE AIMED PRIMARILY AT OTHER FEDERAL
OBJECTIVES. IMPROVED COORDINATION ACROSS DEPARTMENTS AND AGENCIES
OF EDUCATION POLICIES AND PROGRAMS AS THEY EFFECT STATES, SCHOOLS
AND INSTITUTIONS OF HIGHER EDUCATION MAY BE A MORE DESIRABLE AND
FEASIBLE APPROACH IN SOME CASES THAN CONSOLIDATION OF ALL PROGRAMS
WITHIN A DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION. THE AUTHORITY FOR SUCH INTER-
DEPARTMENT COORDINATION MUST BE A CENTRAL OF A REORGANIZED FEDERAL
EDUCATION DEPARTMENT.

FEDERAL/STATE RELATIONS IN POSTSECONDARY EDUCATION

AS A FINAL POINT, WE SHARE THE CONCERN OF MANY WITHIN THE HIGHER
EDUCATION COMMUNITY THAT HIGHER OR POSTSECONDARY EDUCATION MAY
NOT BE ADEQUATELY REPRESENTED WITHIN A SEPARATE DEPARTMENT OF
EDUCATION. HIGHER EDUCATION, FAR MORE THAN ELEMENTARY AND SECONDARY
EDUCATION, RELATES TO AND IS AFFECTED BY POLICIES AND PROGRAMS
OF FEDERAL AGENCIES WHICH DO NOT HAVE EDUCATION AS A PRIMARY
FUNCTION. IT IS UNLIKELY THAT THESE NON-EDUCATION FUNCTIONS WILL
BE INCLUDED WITHIN A NEW EDUCATION DEPARTMENT. IF A TUITION
TAX CREDIT PLAN RELATING TO POSTSECONDARY EDUCATION IS ENACTED,
THIS WILL PLACE STILL ANOTHER MAJOR PROGRAM OUTSIDE THE LIKELY
JURISDICTION OF A NEW DEPARTMENT. AT THE SAME TIME, MOST OF THE
ELEMENTARY AND SECONDARY EDUCATION PROGRAMS WILL CLEARLY BE WITHIN
SUCH A DEPARTMENT WITH THE RESULT THAT THE MAJOR OPERATING
RESPONSIBILITIES OF THE DEPARTMENT IN TERMS OF RELATIONS WITH
STATE AGENCIES AND INSTITUTIONS WILL BE ON THE ELEMENTARY AND

SECONDARY EDUCATION LEVEL.

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TO ADDRESS THE CONCERNS OF THE HIGHER OR POSTSECONDARY EDUCATION
COMMUNITY, A DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION SHOULD HAVE A MAJOR RESPONSIBILITY
FOR COORDINATION OF FEDERAL ACTIVITIES ACROSS AGENCY AND DEPARTMENTAL
LINES AFFECTING INSTITUTIONS OF POSTSECONDARY EDUCATION AND THIS
RESPONSIBILITY SHOULD BE ASSIGNED TO A SENIOR DEPARTMENTAL OFFICIAL
AT THE ASSISTANT SECRETARY LEVEL.

IN THE STRUCTURING OF THE DEPARTMENT'S POSTSECONDARY EDUCATION
FUNCTIONS, PROVISION SHOULD BE MADE AT THE LEVEL OF THE ASSISTANT
SECRETARY FOR ON-GOING CONSULTATION WITH AND INVOLVEMENT OF STATE

HIGHER EDUCATION EXECUTIVES IN THE FORMULATION AND IMPLEMENTATION
OF POLICY. ALTHOUGH THE FEDERAL SHARE OF FINANCING POSTSECONDARY
EDUCATION, ESPECIALLY STUDENT ASSISTANCE, HAS INCREASED DRAMATICALLY
IN RECENT YEARS, THE LARGEST PROPORTION OF SUPPORT FOR POSTSECONDARY
EDUCATION (IN SUBSIDY TO INSTITUTIONS AND INCREASINGLY IN STUDENT
ASSISTANCE) CONTINUES TO COME FROM THE STATES. THE STATES HAVE THE
RESPONSIBILITY FOR PLANNING, COORDINATION AND GOVERNANCE OF
POSTSECONDARY EDUCATION. IT IS IMPORTANT THAT FEDERAL POSTSECONDARY
EDUCATION PROGRAMS COMPLEMENT AND BUILD UPON THESE EXISTING STATE
EFFORTS. TO BE SURE THAT THIS OCCURS, IT IS ESSENTIAL THAT THE
STATE AGENCIES RESPONSIBLE FOR PLANNING, COORDINATION OR GOVERNANCE
OF POSTSECONDARY EDUCATION BE INVOLVED AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL.

ECS IS ON RECORD AS FAVORING A FEDERAL DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION.
WHILE THE ECS CONSTITUENTS ARE DIVIDED ON THIS SUBJECT, ALL SHARE
A BASIC CONCERN THAT EFFORTS TO REORGANIZE THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT'S
EDUCATION ACTIVITIES BE FOUNDED ON A CLEAR DEFINITION OF THE FEDERAL
ROLE IN EDUCATION IN RELATION TO THE CONSTITUTIONAL AND HISTORIC
ROLE OF THE STATES IN EDUCATION. ALTHOUGH WE HAVE NOT MADE A
DETAILED STUDY REGARDING WHICH SPECIFIC FUNCTIONS SHOULD OR SHOULD
NOT BE INCLUDED WITHIN A NEW DEPARTMENT IF ONE SHOULD BE ESTABLISHED,
I HAVE MADE SEVERAL SUGGESTIONS BASED ON EXISTING ECS POLICY
POSITIONS REGARDING THE ORGANIZATION OF FEDERAL EDUCATION PROGRAMS
WHICH WE BELIEVE WOULD INCREASE THE EFFECTIVENESS OF THE WORKING
RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AND THE STATES IN
EDUCATION.

ACTION ON LEGISLATION TO ESTABLISH A SEPARATE DEPARTMENT SHOULD
NOT BE DELAYED. NOW THAT THE PRESIDENT HAS ANNOUNCED IN HIS
STATE OF THE UNION ADDRESS THAT HE BELIEVES THAT IT IS TIME TO
ESTABLISH A DEPARTMENT, THE UNCERTAINTY, INEVITABLE ANTAGONISMS
AND LOSS OF PRODUCTIVITY WITHIN THE PRESENT FEDERAL EDUCATION
BUREACRACY WILL ONLY INTENSIFY. PROLONGED INDECISION WILL ONLY
LEAD TO FRUSTRATION, AND WASTE OF THE ENERGY AND OUTSTANDING
CAPACITY OF MANY OF THE PEOPLE RESPONSIBLE FOR EDUCATION WITHIN
THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH, EDUCATION, AND WELFARE.

WHILE I URGE THAT ACTION NOT BE DELAYED, I WOULD EMPHASIZE A POINT
WHICH MANY OTHERS HAVE MADE BEFORE THIS COMMITTEE: REORGANIZATION

IS NOT A PANACEA FOR ALL THE PROBLEMS EDUCATION IS FACING AT THE

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FEDERAL LEVEL. AT THE HEARINGS BEFORE THIS COMMITTEE LAST
OCTOBER, STATEMENTS WERE MADE ABOUT THE LACK OF A REAL INCREASE
IN EDUCATION SPENDING SINCE 1966 AND THE FACT THAT THE SECRETARY
HAD YET TO MAKE A MAJOR SPEECH ON EDUCATION SINCE PRESIDENT CARTER
TOOK OFFICE. SINCE THAT TIME, THE PRESIDENT, WITH MAJOR ASSISTANCE
FROM SECRETARY CALIFANO AND THE SECRETARY'S IMMEDIATE STAFF, HAS
ANNOUNCED THE LARGEST REAL INCREASE IN EDUCATION SPENDING SINCE
1966, HAS PRESENTED FAR-REACHING PROPOSALS FOR REAUTHORIZATION OF
THE ELEMENTARY AND SECONDARY EDUCATION ACT TO CONGRESS, AND HAS
EXPRESSED STRONG VIEWS ON THE SUBJECT OF TAX CREDITS AS AN APPROACH
TO MEETING THE PROBLEMS OF MIDDLE-INCOME FAMILIES IN FINANCING
THEIR CHILDREN'S EDUCATION. THE SECRETARY HAS SPOKEN OUT ON THE
SUBJECT OF THE FEDERAL ROLE IN TESTING AND HAS MADE MAJOR CHANGES
IN THE MANAGEMENT AND ORGANIZATION OF EDUCATION PROGRAMS IN HEW
WITH THE ASSISTANCE OF ASSISTANT SECRETARY MARY BERRY AND
COMMISSIONER OF EDUCATION ERNEST BOYER.

AGAIN, MR. CHAIRMAN, WE COMPLIMENT YOU FOR YOUR LEADERSHIP IN THIS IMPORTANT AREA. THE EDUCATION COMMISSION OF THE STATES STANDS READY TO ASSIST THE COMMITTEE IN ANY WAY WE CAN TO ENSURE THAT LEGISLATION ESTABLISHING A FEDERAL DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION WILL INCREASE THE EFFECTIVENESS OF THE FEDERAL ROLE IN EDUCATION IN PARTNERSHIP WITH THE STATES.

03/20/78 WGH:VL

Chairman RIBICOFF. The next panel will be Mr. Albert Shanker, president of the American Federation of Teachers; and Msgr. Wilfrid Paradis, secretary of the department of education, U.S. Catholic Conference.

Mr. Shanker, you may proceed.

TESTIMONY OF ALBERT SHANKER, PRESIDENT, AMERICAN FEDERATION OF TEACHERS; AND MSGR. WILFRID H. PARADIS, SECRETARY, DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION, U.S. CATHOLIC CONFERENCE

Mr. SHANKER. Mr. Chairman, members of the committee, I submitted to you yesterday copies of my statement which I will not read here.

Chairman RIBICOFF. Your entire statement, Mr. Shanker, and yours, Monsignor, will go in the record in their entirety.

Mr. SHANKER. Thank you.

A good deal has been said both in testimony today and on previous occasions as well as in some of the written discussion of this issue about some of the shortcomings of the present structure. I will return to that question in just a minute.

I am more impressed by the pluses of the present structure than its shortcomings. I frequently have to deal with critics of American public education who will take the problems that we have from time to time, and we do have problems, as reasons to either withdraw support for public education or to adopt plans like some that are around now which would, we think, totally destroy it. We think that on balance if you look at some of the pluses of the present system. there is a good deal that ought to be preserved.

I would point to the fact that during the 8 years that President Nixon and President Ford were in office, the pattern of educational struggle and funding was one where the President each year would propose a reduction in the financing of education in this country, as well as other social services; that typically the Congress did not agree and would adopt legislation which would provide for funds greater than that which the President had recommended. And we then experienced frequent vetoes of that legislation.

And what was quite impressive was that on a pretty regular basis, when it came to HEW appropriations, the Congress succeeded year after year in overriding Presidential vetoes.

Now I believe that in large part the ability to override those veteos occurred because the people who were interested in health issues were not isolated from those who were interested in issues of education.

Chairman RIBICOFF. Mr. Shanker, just as a point of information. the person who is even more insistent on the Department of Education than myself is Senator Magnuson who is now Chairman of the Appropriations Committee and was formerly Chairman of the Labor-HEW Appropriations Subcommittee. Every time there was an appropriations bill, he would come up to me, after a few words of frustration, and say, "When are you going to create the Depart