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COMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS

ABRAHAM RIBICOFF, Connecticut, Chairman HENRY M. JACKSON, Washington

CHARLES H. PERCY, Illinois EDMUND S. MUSKIE, Maine

JACOB K. JAVITS, New York THOMAS F. EAGLETON, Missouri

WILLIAM V. ROTH, JR., Delaware LAWTON CHILES, Florida

TED STEVENS, Alaska SAM NUNN, Georgia

CHARLES MCC. MATHIAS, JR., Maryland JOHN GLENN, Ohio

JOHN C. DANFORTH, Missouri JIM SASSER, Tennessee

H. JOHN HEINZ III, Pennsylvania MURIEL HUMPHREY, Minnesota

RICHARD A. WEGMAN, Chief Counsel and Staf Director PAUL HOFF, Counsel

ELLEN S. MILLER, Professional Staf Member ELI E. NOBLEMAN, Counsel

THEODORE J. JACOBS, Counsel (Regulatory PAUL C. ROSENTHAL, Counsel

Reform) IRA S. SHAPIRO, Counsel

JAMES M. GRAHAM, Counsel (Regulatory CLAUDE E. BARFIELD, Professional Staj

Reform) Member

ETHEL Z. GEISINGER, Special Assistant CLAUDIA T. INGRAM, Professional staff

(Regulatory Reform)
Member
MARILYN A. HARRIS, Executive Administrator and Professional Staf Member

ELIZABETH A. PREAST, Chief Clerk
ROBERT V. HEFFERNAN, Staf Member
John B. CHILDERS, Minority Staf Director
BRIAN CONBOY, Special Counsel to the Minority
CONSTANCE B. EVANS, Counsel to the Minority

HAROLD C. ANDERSON, Staf Editor

(II)

CONTENTS

WITNESSES

MONDAY, MARCH 20, 1978

Lawrence S. Zaglaniczny, executive director, Coalition of Independent

College and University Students; Barbara Kemp, president, A.F.G.E.

Local 2607, HEW Education Division; and Joel Packer, Legislative

Director, National Student Association/National Student Lobby ---

Gary Hotchkin, executive director, American School Food Service Associa-

tion; Faith Gravenmier, chairwoman, American School Food Service

Association Legislative Committee; Dorothy Van Egmond, director, Food

Service Division, Fairfax County Public Schools, Fairfax, Va.; Dorothy

L. Finch, supervisor of Food Services, Grandview School District,

Grandview, Washington; and Helen B. McGee, nutrition coordinator,

Oklahoma State Department of Education -

TUESDAY, MARCH 21, 1978

Lubbie Harper, Jr., executive assistant, New Haven public schools; Dr.

Joseph M. Cronin, Ilinois State superintendent of education; Helen

Wise, member, Pennsylvania State House of Representatives; and

Dr. Warren G. Hill, executive director, Education Commission of the

States..

Albert Shanker, president, American Federation of Teachers, and Mon-

signor Wilfrid H. Paradis, secretary, Department of Education, U.S.

Catholic Conference..

Charles B. Saunders, Jr., director of governmental relations, American

Council on Education; Dr. Helena B. Howe, board of directors, chair-

woman, American Association of Community and Junior Colleges;

Dr. James A. Norton, chancellor, Ohio Board of Regents, representing

State Higher Education Executive Officers; and Dr. Donald L. Robinson,

chairman, Task Force on a Separate Department of Education, American

Association of University Professors ..

FRIDAY, APRIL 14, 1978

James T. McIntyre, Jr., Director, Office of Management and Budget;

accompained by Patricia Gwaltney, Deputy Associate Director for

Human Resources Organization Studies...-

TUESDAY, APRIL 18, 1978

Hon. Cecil Heftel, a Representative in Congress from the State of Hawaii..

I. M. Greenberg, Deputy Assistant Secretary for Program Management,

Department of Defense, accompanied by Dr. Anthony Cardinale, Di-

rector, DOD Dependents Schools: Carl D. Moore, Executive Director

and General Counsel, Overseas Education Association; Col. Robert F.

Comeau, Staff Judge Advocate, U.S. Army, Fort Polk, La., past presi-

dent, European PTSA from 1973–1975; and Lt. Col. Michael J. Scotti,

Jr., M.D., U.S. Army, Fort Gordon, Ga., past president, European

PTSA from 1975-1976. -

Page

262

298

302

306

346

367

402

Philip M. Smith, assistant director, Office of Science and Technology

Policy; Dr. Arthur H. Livermore, head, Office of Science Education,
American Association for the Advancement of Science; Dr. J. Myron
Atkin, dean, College of Education, University of Illinois; Robert L.
Silber, executive director, National Science Teachers Association; and
Melvin Thompson, executive director, Committee on Minorities and
Engineering, National Research Council, National Academy of Sciences.

THURSDAY, APRIL 27, 1978
Hon. Edward W. Brooke, a U.S. Senator from the State of Massachusetts..
Hon. Shirley Chisholm, a Representative in Congress from the State of

New York.
James Parham, Deputy Assistant Secretary for Human Development

Services, Department of Health, Education, and Welfare; accompanied
by Ms. Nancy Amidei, Deputy Assistant Secretary for Congressional

Affairs
Marian Wright Edelman, director, Children's Defense Fund; Dr. Edward

Zigler, Yale University; Nancy Spears, president, National Head Start
Directors Association, Lee County Head Start; and Juan J. Gutierrez,

National Congress of Hispanic American Citizens, a panel...
Dr. Ann Taylor, professor of early child development, Carnegie-Mellon

University; Frances Walker, assistant superintendent of public instruc-
tion, director, office of child development, California State Department
of Education; and Ruth T. Cumbo, coordinator, Prince Georges County
Project Head Start, a panel.--.

MONDAY, MAY 8, 1978
Dr. Robert D. Benton, superintendent of public instruction, State of

Iowa; Helen D. Ullrich, executive director, Society for Nutrition Edu-
cation; and Elizabeth Cagan, chief administrator, New York City

School Food Services, a panel..
Barbara Bode, president, The Children's Foundation; Ellen Haas, Com-

munity Nutrition Institute; Roger Schwartz, director, Food Research
and Action Center; Marie McGlaun, school lunch director, Columbus,
Ga., and legislative chairperson, Georgia State School Food Services
Association; and David Page, president emeritus, American School Food
Service Association.-
Carol Tucker Foreman, Assistant Secretary for Food and Consumer

Services, U.S. Department of Agriculture...
William McMillan, vice president, government affairs, National Cattle-

men's Association; Hendrik Wentink, director, Poultry and Egg In-
stitute of America; Susan Fridy, National Milk Producers Federation;
John Datt, director, Washington Office, American Farm Bureau
Federation...

TUESDAY, May 16, 1978
James A. Joseph, Undersecretary, Department of the Interior; accom-

panied by M. Elizabeth Holmgren, Planning Officer, Indian Education
Programs; Edward Marich, Acting Executive Officer, Office of Indian
Education Programs, Bureau of Indian Affairs; and Gerald Gipp,
Deputy Commissioner of Education, Office of Indian Education, HEW;
accompanied by William Blakey, Deputy Assistant Secretary for Legis-
lation Education) HEW and William Stormer, Division of School Assist-

ance in Federally Affected Areas, U.S. Office of Education, HEW... Lawrence Snake, chairman, Education Committee, National Tribal Chair

men's Association, accompanied by Patricia Locke; P. Samuel DeLoria, representing the National Congress of American Indians; Lionel Bordeaux, president, National Indian Education Association, accompanied by Georgiana Tiger. Billie Nave Masters, chairperson, First American Caucus, National Edu

cation Association; Joseph Dupris, executive director, Coalition of Indian Controlled School Boards; Leroy V. Clifford, executive director, American Indian Higher Education Consortium...

426

459

474

519

537

563

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William E. York, chairman, Education Committee, Mississippi Band of Pago

Choctaw Indians; Dr. Samuel Billison, director, division of education,
The Navajo Nation; Frank Tenorio, secretary-treasurer, All Indian
Pueblo Council; Joe McDonald, representing Allen Rowland, president,
Northern Cheyenne Tribe; Ferdinand Martineau, The Minnesota
Chippewas; Skip Skanen, executive director, Affiliated Tribes of North-
west Indians.

606 WEDNESDAY, MAY 17, 1978 Hale Champion, Undersecretary, Health, Education, and Welfare.

657 James T. McIntyre, Jr., Director, Office of Management and Budget;

accompanied by Harrison Wellford, Executive Associate Director for Reorganization and Management; and Ms. Patricia Gwaltney, Deputy Associate Director for Human Resource Organization Studies.

661 Alphabetical list of witnesses: Atkin, Dr. J. Myron: Testimony --

262 Benton, Dr. Robert D.: Testimony --

402 Prepared statement.

406 Billison, Dr. Samuel: Testimony--

606 Prepared statement with attachment.

611 Bode, Barbara: Testimony -

426 Prepared statement with attachments.

429 Bordeaux, Lionel: Testimony

537 Brooke, Hon. Edward W.: Testimony

298 Cagan, Elizabeth: Testimony --

402 Cardinale, Dr. Anthony: Testimony

247 Champion, Hale: Testimony

657 Letter to Senator Ribicoff from Secretary Califano, May 17, 1978. 658 Chisholm, Hon. Shirley: Testimony.

302 Clifford, Leroy V.: Testimony.

563 Prepared statement.

603 Comeau, Col Robert: Testimony

247 Cronin, Dr. Joseph M.: Testimony.

117 Prepared statement.

123 Cumbo, Ruth T.: Testimony

367 Prepared statement..

394 Datt, John: Testimony

474 Prepared statement..

505 DeLoria, P. Samuel: Testimony -

537 Prepared statement.

552 Dupris, Joseph: Testimony.

563 Prepared statement with attachments.

567 Edelman, Marian Wright: Testimony..

319 Prepared statement.

324 Telegram to Senator Ribicoff from various civil rights organizations, March 23, 1978.

366 Finch, Dorothy L.: Testimony

88 No Fault Nutrition, by Dorothy Finch, from School Foodservice Journal, September 1977---

105 USDA Proposes Money-Saving Revisions in Child Nutrition

Education, from USDA, September 1977
Foreman, Carol Tucker: Testimony -

459
Fridy, Susan:
Testimony ---

474 Prepared statement with attachments..

478

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Alphabetical list of witnesses—Continued
Gipp, Dr. Gerald:

Testimony

Prepared statementGravenmier, Faith:

Testimony --

Prepared statement of Mrs. Gene White.
Greenberg, I. M.: Testimony ----
Gutierrez, Juan J.:

Testimony-

Prepared statementGwaltney, Patricia: TestimonyHaas, Ellen:

Testimony

Prepared statement.. Harper, Lubbie, Jr.: Testimony Heftel, Hon. Cecil: Testimony Hill, Dr. Warren G.:

Testimony

Prepared statement
Holmgren, M. Elizabeth: Testimony
Hotchkin, Gary: Testimony --
Howe, Dr. Helena B.:

Testimony ---

Prepared statement. Joseph, James A.: Testimony Kemp, Barbara:

Testimony--

Prepared statement with attachment Livermore, Dr. Arthur H.:

Testimony--

Prepared statement. Locke, Patricia: Testimony Marich, Edward: Testimony Martineau, Ferdinand:

Testimony--

Prepared statement.
Masters, Billie Nave: Testimony-
McDonald, Joe: Testimony-
McGee, Helen B.: Testimony
McGlaun, Marie: Testimony
McIntyre, James T., Jr.:

Testimonies
Additional material supplied for the record

Prepared statement...
McMillan, William: Testimony-
Moore, Carl D.:

Testimony

Prepared statement-
Norton, Dr. James A.:

Testimony--

Prepared statement-
Packer, Joel: Testimony
Page, David: Testimony
Paradis, Msgr. Wilfrid H.:

Tesimony.--
Prepared statement-

Letter to Senator Ribicoff, March 15, 1978.
Parham, James: Testimony-
Robinson, Dr. Donald L.: Testimony-
Saunders, Charles B., Jr.:

Testimony --

Prepared statement. Schwartz, Roger:

Testimony--

Prepared statement.
Scotti, Lt. Col. Michael J.:

Testimony...
Prepared statement-

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