We are interested only in one very small matter, which is in the St. Elizabeths appropriation and has to do with an authorization to replace guard uniforms. There is not a very great number of guards out there, although I am not certain as to the exact number. What I should like to ask you to do is to insert language in the authorization part of the bill-that is, the general authorization part of the bill-to provide that the hospital may purchase uniforms for the guards. On occasion the guards out there are confronted with obstreperous patients, and there are at times differences with respect to whether or not the patient injured the uniform of the guard. In other words, whether it was strictly in a business way that the uniform was injured. Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. They have uniforms now? Mr. BABCOCK. No; they do not have uniforms at all. The probabilities are that the cost of the uniforms will run around, I believe, $16; from $12 to $16 at least. Mr. TAYLOR. How many would they have to have? Mr. BABCOCK. Probably one every 12 to 18 months. Mr. TAYLOR. What is the total cost of all these uniforms? Mr. BABCOCK. There would not be any need to add anything to the appropriation, if that is what you mean. Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. How many guards are there? Mr. BABCOCK. I do not know just exactly. Mr. TAYLOR. How much would they cost? Mr. BABCOCK. I was just called a few moments ago, and I have not had time to go over the specific data. Mr. STENGLE. I will get that for you, Mr. Taylor, and give it te the clerk. Mr. BABCOCK. Most of the men who are required to wear a uniform in service are furnished with those uniforms. Mr. TAYLOR. By whom; by the Government? Mr. BABCOCK. Yes. Mr. TAYLOR. Do they make them over there? Mr. BABCOCK. Not at St. Elizabeths; no. They purchase them in some agencies, for instance, in the Justice Department. Mr. TAYLOR. What do they cost; $10 or $12, or something like that? Mr. BABCOCK. It is a very small amount. Mr. LAMBERTSON. You say some of them are furnished uniforms? Mr. BABCOCK. Not at St. Elizabeths, but many places. For instance, at the Smithsonian Institute. The guard gets his $1,200 salary, which is meager anyway, and gets his uniform, and at St. Elizabeths the guard gets his $1,200 and has to buy his uniform, and, of course, there has to be other clothing that he can use in the streets normally. They have some sort of trick buttons they can put on, but it is a comparatively minute item, and a small group of men over there are very much excited about the thing. Mr. TAYLOR. What are they excited for? Do they not have anything else to do? They should not get excited over some such pica-yune thing as this. Mr. BABCOCK. I do not want to take up the time of the committee if it were not for the fact that most of the guards have this authorization. The Comptroller General says it must be a part of the specific appropriation language and the only way we can bring it up for discussion is to come in here and impose on the time of you gentlemen and take up your time by talking about it. It is just an object of appropriation, that is all. Mr. STENGLE. In other departments where they have omnibus amounts, enumerating a number of items to be drawn for, you simply add," and they may also purchase guards' uniforms." Mr. BABCOCK. For instance, a department cannot have a telephone, not a single one, unless you say in the appropriation language, “ and telephone service ", and all we are asking here is that you add, “ and for purchase of uniforms for guards." 66 It will be permissive with the administrative officer. If he does not have the money, he cannot purchase them. Mr. TAYLOR. Heretofore the guards have been buying them themselves? Mr. BABCOCK. That is right. Mr. TAYLOR. And how do their salaries compare with other people whose uniforms are furnished to them? Mr. BABCOCK. They are just exactly the same. They are much lower than the penitentiary service, but the other guards in the public buildings around here are furnished uniforms. Mr. TAYLOR. It is not as hazardous there as it is in the penitentiary. They get shot there once in a while, and everything. Mr. BABCOCK. They do not get their uniforms; that is an anomoly in the situation. We have a great many of them who do. Mr. TAYLOR. Where? Mr. BABCOCK. The guards around here in the service, in the field service, they get the uniforms and their pay is not rated in accordance with factor. Now, these guards get, I think, $1,200 a year; the guards down here in the State, War, and Navy Buildings and other buildings around get $1,200 a year. These have their uniforms for nothing and these do not. If the appropriation language is inserted, no cost is involved and it is just a matter of putting it in. Mr. TAYLOR. This has been running along this way always, has it not, for 50 years or something like that? Mr. BABCOCK. Every year we try to get a few more of the lowerpaid employees furnished with the uniforms of their trade. We always furnish a carpenter his carpenter tools, but the uniforms of the guards amount to the implements of his trade and we are trying to generalize through the service the furnishing by the Government of guards' uniforms because they are very low-paid personnel. I do not object to the captain of the guard paying for his own uniform, but when you get these $1,200 men, they are down pretty low; and when they have to go out on the street and buy a uniform at an individual rate they have to pay $25 to $35 for it, whereas the Government can buy them in blocks at a much decreased cost. Mr. TAYLOR. Have you any data to show what these uniforms do cost or what the policemen around the Capitol pay for their uniforms or what the Government pays for them? Mr. BABCOCK. I have data available in my office but not here. Mr. TAYLOR. Have you any definite information as to how much hese men pay for their uniforms? Mr. BABCOCK. They pay from $25 to $35. Mr. STENGLE. I might suggest, Mr. Chairman, back in the Sixtyeighth Congress, you will recall through insistence we added to the -ubcommittee's report on the Library of Congress for guards' uniforms and at that time they estimated the uniforms for the entire wear to be $75 per man, which was, of course, more than was needed. They have several suits over there and we put them on them at that Unfortunately for the subcommittee, we overrode them, which I know is not according to Hoyle, but we got them in there and since that time they have continued to have them but they do not begin to spend what they asked for at that time. Mr. TAYLOR. They do not wear out three suits a year in what little work they do. Mr. STENGLE. Here is the difference, and I wanted to point out that President Babcock possibly overlooked it, in the case of St. Elizabeths, where the man furnishes his own clothes at the present time, it is not like a jail where if a prisoner becomes obstreperous he hits him over the head and quiets him; he has to permit these people frequently to tear his clothes. I was out there some time ago when one of them had just had one of these sudden raving spells and had torn the man's clothing. Mr. TAYLOR. Are they not strong enough to protect themselves? Mr. STENGLE. They can hold them; but a crazy man has superhuman strength. I would like to suggest to you that right there now at St. Elizabeths Hospital they repair the clothes of patients and of guards because of this thing that continuously happens. Mr. TAYLOR. If we furnish them these uniforms, you will come here and object to them being repaired in the shop. Mr. STENGLE. No; but it would save them decent suits of clothes to wear to their homes when their work is over. We are simply asking for permission, if Dr. White sees fit to uniform the guards out of the funds given him. Mr. TAYLOR. Would Dr. White be the sole judge of the whole business? Mr. STENGLE. No; you know how the appropriations go. Mr. BABCOCK. This is a legislative direction only. It is a matter of $300 or $400 I guess. Mr. TAYLOR. If we put in a limitation of $300, you would not like that, would you? Mr. BABCOCK. That would be perfectly acceptable. Mr. TAYLOR. I mean $300 for the whole bunch for a year. Mr. BABCOCK. That would be perfectly safe, and I would be perfectly willing if you did that. Mr. TAYLOR. Well, gentlemen, I am glad to have heard you, and we will duly consider the matter. 115905-35- -74 Grazing and cattle-raising conditions on the islands and peninsula 464 Highway from United States to Alaska. 494 Incidental and contingent expenses, office of the Governor. 444 453 Legislative expenses- Medical relief in.. Mining investigations in_. Native governmental activities. Public schools, establishment and maintenance of Reindeer for Alaska. Dependence of natives upon.. Financing and marketing in the reindeer industry. Purchase and distribution_ Supervision of the industry by the Government_ Relief and welfare work among the natives. Roads, bridges, trails, etc., in Alaska Roads, importance of, to Alaska.........- Salaries of the Governor and secretary. School funds, sources of.. Armstrong, E. J., statement of. Ayers, Hon. R. E., statement of. 1164 400 400 502 66 3, 443 49 1125 590, 862, 1007 1140 541 41 778 28 1157 59, 297 460 590 1169 |