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INDEPENDENT OFFICES

American Battle Monument Commis

sion. Architect of the Capitol. Arlington Memorial Bridge Commis

sion.
Boundary Commission, Alaska and

Canada.
Boundary Commission, United States

and Mexico.
Columbia Hospital for Women.
George Rogers Clark Sesquicentennial

Commission.
Government Printing Office.

Inland Waterways Corporation,
Mount Rushmore Memorial Commis-

sion.
National Advisory Commission for

Aeronautics.
Panama Railroad.
Panama Canal.
Porto Rican Hurricane Relief Com-

mission,
Smithsonian Institution.
United States Shipping Board.
Veterans' Administration.

DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA MUNICIPAL GOVERNMENT

Engineer department:

Board of Public Welfare Contd. City refuse department.

Industrial Home School (White). District Building.

Municipal lodging house. Electrical department.

Receiving home for children. Highway department.

Reformatory. Municipal garage.

Temporary home for ex-soldiers Plumbing department.

and sailors. Reclamation Anacostia Flats.

Tuberculosis Hospital. Sewer department.

Board of Education. Trees and Parking.

Coroner. Washington aqueduct.

Courthouse, District of Columbia. Water department.

Court of Appeals, District of Columbia. Board of Public Welfare:

Department of Weights and Measures. Children's Tuberculosis Sanita- Fire department. rium.

Juvenile court, District of Columbia. National Training School for Militia, District of Columbia. Girls.

Municipal center. District jail.

Municipal court. District Training School.

Playground department. District workhouse.

Police court. Gallinger Hospital.

Police department. Home for the Aged.

Public Library. Industrial Home School (colored). Traffic department. I desire to insert in the record at this point a statement of appropriations and estimates for public works in the Department of the Interior for the fiscal years 1931, 1932, and 1933. I might say that they indicate something as follows: That in the National Park Service the figures run around $6,000,000; Bureau of Reclamation, $8,000,000 in 1931, $31,000,000 in 1932, and $14,000,000 estimated for 1933; the Indian Service, around $5,000,000 in 1931 and 1932, and $2,000,000 in 1933; St. Elizabeths Hospital, $200,000 in 1931, $1,500,000 in 1932, and nothing for 1933; Howard University, $700,000 in 1931, $1,400,000 in 1932, and $860,000 in 1933; and the Alaska Railroad, around $230,000. So that the totals for construction in the department, estimated for 1933, are $24,500,000; in 1932, $46,000,000; and actual expenditures in 1931, $20,000,000.

It is important to note the nature of this construction. In the National Park Service it consists of employees' quarters, comfort stations, water and sewer systems, camp-ground development, fire lookout stations, and so forth, carrying appropriations of approximately $1,000,000 in 1931, $900,000 in 1932, and $600,000 in 1933; roads and trails, approximately $6,000,000, and a small amount which went into emergency construction, roads and trails.

In the Bureau of Reclamation it consists of dams, reservoirs, carriage and distribution canals and laterals, drains, pumping and power plants, buildings, and so forth, incidental to irrigation systems, from four million to six and seven million dollars, so you will see about how the figures run. The Hoover Dam and incidental features vary from $1,700,000 in 1931 to $24,000,000 in 1932 and $10,000,000 in 1933. The totals for the Bureau of Reclamation run from $8,000,000 in 1931 to $31,000,000 in 1932 and $15,000,000 in 1933.

In the Indian Service the construction there varies a good deal, but it includes such items as employees' cottages, water and sewerage systems, telephone lines, drilling walls and improving springs, irrigating works on the Indian reclamation projects, Indian school buildings, dormitories, heating plants, employees' quarters, and that sort of thing, incident to the normal services associated with the full care of a considerable group of widely scattered Indians.

In the St. Elizabeths Hospital it is buildings for the care of mental patients.

At Howard University it is dormitory buildings, laboratory buildings, new library building, and so forth, and at Freedman's Hospital it is largely a matter of extensions.

In the Alaska Railroad it involves an expenditure of a quarter of a million dollars on the construction and improvement of railroad roadway, buildings, stations, and so on.

(The detail of appropriations for the Interior Department is in full as follows:)

Appropriations and Estimates for Public Works, Department of the Interior

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4506, 259, 249

Total, National Park Service.

6, 573, 800

5, 922, 450

Bureau of Reclamation:

Dams, reservoirs, carriage, and distribution canal and laterals,

drains, pumping and power plants, buildings, etc., incidental to irrigation systems. Hoover Dam and incidental features

Total, Bureau of Reclamation...

4, 732, 000 7,671,000 10,000,000 23,990, 555 14, 732, 000 31, 661, 555

6, 357, 168 1,689, 473

8,046, 641

Appropriations and Estimates for Public Works, Department of the Interior

Continued

Nature of construction

Estimates
of appro-

Appropria-
priations, tions, 1932

1933

Actual expenditures, 1931

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Indian Service:

Employees' cottages, water and sewerage systems, etc.
Telephone lines...
Drilling wells and improving springs (gratuity).
Drilling wells and improving springs (tribal funds).
Irrigating works on Indian reclamation projects (reimbursable).
Indian-school buildings, dormitories, heating plants, employees'

quarters, etc..
Construction public school buildings in Arizona -
Indian boarding school buildings, dormitories, heating plants,

employees' quarters, etc. Education of natives in Alaska; school buildings, dormitories,

and residence for teachers.. Industrial boarding school; clearing and grading grounds and

erection of buildings, Shoemaker Bay, Alaska.
Conservation of health among Indians, hospitals, sanatoria em-

ployees' quarters, heating plants...
Medical relief in Alaska, erection of hospital buildings.
Roads, bridges, and monuments..
Miscellaneous tribal funds; roads, water and sewer systems.

Total, Indian Service-
St. Elizabeths Hospital: Buildings for the care of mental patients....
Howard University:

Dormitory buildings
Chemistry laboratories and classroons.
Educational building for new classrooms.
For reconstructing and improving underground heat, light, and

power system.
New library building-
Development of Freedmen's Hospital and Howard University

power plant...

Total, Howard University. The Alaska Railroad:

Construction and improvement of railroad roadway, building,

stations, etc..
Construction of school building at Eklutna, Alaska, for Bureau

of Indian Affairs (transfer to Alaska R. R., act May 21, 1920).-
Total, The Alaska Railroad.

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Secretary WILBUR (continuing). It will be seen from the foregoing that the actual consolidation of these construction activities is not only involved, but it will require care in separating the construction functions from the operating functions. A subordination of important fiscal and administrative responsibilities in the plan for public-works consolidation would be undesirable. This is indicated in a proposal in one of the bills to transfer the National Parks Service to the proposed public-works administration. That is in

your bill.

The CHAIRMAN. Yes.

Secretary WILBUR. This service is primarily concerned in the development of recreational and educational opportunities in the Federal reservations set aside as national parks. Construction and maintenance cover only about one-fourth of its activities and this construction is mainly road building, which is now performed by the Bureau of Public Roads under cooperative agreements. It is important to note that in our National Park Service we use the road service of the Agricultural Department, and do not set up an indi

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vidual road service of our own. That is somewhat unique and I think the policy that has been worked out there and the plan of cooperation that has been devised is one of the best to follow.

The CHAIRMAN. It is very satisfactory.

Mr. MARTIN. Would it not be a fine thing, Mr. Secretary, to extend that cooperation in all departments?

Secretary WILBUR. That is the thing in back of our minds in this construction set-up with the Bureau of Roads, that they have the trained men, the engineers, and we provide the special service for the things we want.

The Bureau of Reclamation is another bureau that should not be transferred as a whole to the public works administration. This is a conservation agency and has important economic and fiscal responsibilities which should be maintained separately from the contemplated public works administration. In other words, the construction activities, the building of dams and that sort of thing, could well be done by the service organization; but the administration of the project, after this has been done, the collection of the revenues, and so on, is of a different type than construction and requires a different set-up—a different personnel.

I wish to emphasize the difficulty of handling such a complex question as the consolidation of Government construction agencies by specific legislation. It will take, as the President says in connection with Government reorganization generally, “ study and experience gained in the actual process of reorganization," to handle this intricate task wisely and effectively. The coordination of construction work is a long-time process than can economically and more satisfactorily be handled by the executive branch of the Government with the approval of Congress, once the public works administration is established.

The basis of that paragraph is this: That if Congress sets up a public works administration with the necessary staff of officers, and then there can be brought to that the various construction activities of the Government when the coordination plans are worked out, I think it can be done economically and without too much friction, and I have indicated by our relationship of the National Park Service with the public roads construction, that that kind of thing can readily be done if it is along lines that both sides understand.

The CHAIRMAN. If your suggestions were followed out, Mr. Secretary, do you think it would be advisable for the Congress to make it mandatory that the public works of the various divisions be handled by the new set-up?

Secretary Wilbur. My idea is that there should be the set-up of the public works administration and then the lines laid so that the details can be worked out with a little time and experience, rather than to have too much of a forced marriage, which would lead to more friction than results—at least for a period of time. There would be no economy in transferring whole bureaus related to each other only through incidental construction activities and continued in operation as distinct entities under a public works administration—in other words, to move over bureaus that have a lot of administration and only incidental construction, and set them up under the construction branch, you would again duplicate what we have. It is the combination of construction and administration that is the only thing we want to get away from, and to get the economies resulting from the pooling of construction.

The direction in which economy lies is the stripping of these bureaus of their incidental construction functions by establishing a service agency specializing in the various types of construction. This plan would permit the operating administrative bureaus to determine what construction is needed and have a voice in the preparation of plans and specifications; but they would have nothing whatever to do with the actual building operations. This would be very much along the line of our existing arrangement with the Bureau of Public Roads for handling contracts for the National Park Service. The procedure now followed is for the National Park Service to secure the annual appropriation from Congress and decide on the work to be done. Request is then made on the Bureau of Public Roads for surveys, plans, specifications, estimates, and locations. These are approved in the field by the public-roads engineer, the chief landscape architect of the Park Service, and the superintendent of the park. Upon the approval of the Chief of the Bureau of Public Roads and the Director of the National Park Service, authority is then given to the Bureau of Public Roads to enter into contract for the construction. The details of advertising and letting of contracts are handled by the bureau. Construction is carried on under the engineering supervision of the bureau and under the landscape supervision of the National Park Service. Minor roads projects and trail construction are handled by a small engineering organization maintained by the National Park Service.

The maintenance of existing works and minor construction work in connection with operations are two branches of construction that in many instances should be continued with the operating bureaus. For example, the construction of stream-gaging stations by the Geological Survey would be more economically handled by the Geological Survey employees already on the ground, since the jobs are small and their location is usually isolated. Trial construction in national parks and the work incident to maintenance of canals and ditches on reclamation projects likewise should remain with their respective bureaus. It largely becomes a matter of minor construction and maintenance in so far as those items are concerned. In the Indian Service, considerable of the construction projects contribute to the support of Indians, who are employed wherever possible in preference to aiding them by direct Federal appropriation. I do not believe that this policy should be disturbed, but, of course, major activities, such as the erection of a hospital or the construction of a large dam for irrigation, should be handled by the proposed public works administration.

I would repeat, however, the practical merit of maintaining the integrity of the operating bureau by having a voice in construction plans.

Now, that, Mr. Chairman, gives in brief the point of view that we have in regard to these two proposed bills.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Secretary, it has been suggested by some of the members of the committee it might be advisable to turn this. work over to the engineers of the Army, to have the engineers

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