JAN. 18, 1825.]

venue.

that it had the power to enter into the consideration of a principle of mere numerical calculation, in undertakings for the public good. On the present subject, it was his opinion, that the states who had been admitted under the stipulations which had been stated, had, fairness, a right to expect the Government to proceed with this road.

jeopardy, by previous mistaken calculations of the reWhen the internal taxes were repealed, no one anticipated a deficiency in the revenue, as the consequence. But, not more than two years elapsed, before all the calculations of the revenue were disappointed; and we had to borrow money, to fulfil the public engage-in ments. Borrowing money in time of peace, was an alarming symptom; and it produced in the nation, and Taking the different statutes together, it seemed to be in this House, such an effect, that it was with difficulty holden out, that Government would make a road, leadour institutions were kept together. This, Mr. McD.ing to those states. Congress had acted again and again said in reference to the defensive system, suspended un- on this idea; and, he asked, Where was the difference der this state of things, which he regarded as of vital im- between the present appropriation, and those which had portance, &c. With this warning before us, said Mr. been formerly granted for this same road? All that can McD. let us not commence the work of internal im- be said, is, that the Government has made advances on provement, in such a manner as may defeat its final suc- a fund which is incompetent to repay them, and so the cess. As soon as we shall have a clear surplus revenue, present amounts to a direct grant. Well. Had not this I will go heart and hand with gentlemen in making the been done before? The appropriations for the Cummost liberal appropriation for the purpose of internal im- berland road had, many of them, been made when it provement; and I shall not be scrupulous whether it be was known that that fund was inadequate. The case is commenced in this or in that part of the country. I wish no worse now. The degree only is different. The to have the whole system before us, ere we begin, so principle is the same; and he thought, that the Western that what we do, we may do wisely, judiciously, and with States might fairly expect this object to be effected, on our eyes open. the ground of their several contracts. The next question was, is this a fit object for which to appropriate? Gentlemen say it is not a national object. But he knew of no work equally beneficial to all the twentyfour states. What, asked Mr. WEBSTER, is a national Is nothing to be so denominated except what benefits every part of the United States? Congress last year voted a sum to improve certain harbors on Lake Erie. Was this of any benefit to Alabama, or New Orleans? They had appropriated money for the repairs of Plymouth Beach: could this be any benefit to the citizens of Indiana? Works surely may be denomi

Mr. WEBSTER, of Massachusetts, then rose and said, that, as he was in favor of the bill, he should say a few words in explanation of the reasons which led him to vote for it. As to the question of power in this House to make appropriations for objects of internal improve-object? ment, he should at this time say nothing. When that question was so much agitated in 1816, he had made his opinions respecting it openly known: he was, of course, ready to change them whenever he could be brought to doubt the constitutional foundation on which that power rests.

At present, the question was a different one, inas-nated national, which are of extensive importance, almuch as the present bill might be passed without the though the benefit may not be strictly universal. The assumption of any power different from what has been fortifications, for instance, which had been erected on exercised by this House for these twenty years. The the Chesapeake are national only because many have an bill, it is true, carries the principle of former acts some-interest in it. The degree of interest in these works what farther, but it does not alter the principle.

between those who lived on the shores of the Chesapeake and the shores of Lake Michigan, was so widely different, that the latter may, in comparison, be said to have no interest in them. Yet, certainly those fortifications were a fit subject of appropriation, and it was the duty of Congress to erect them.

On this subject, as on all others, Mr. W. said, he wished to bring to the discussion a right feeling, that is, a feeling truly national. It mattered nothing to him who was to be immediately benefitted. Tros Tyriusve, whether an inhabitant of the banks of the Merrimack of New Hampshire, or the Merrimack of the Missouri, he With respect to the present road, he asked how did cared not provided he be a subject of our legislation the concern of the General Government in it begin? He he has claims, said Mr. W. on my impartial consideration. presumed the origin of that concern was to be found in If he had been led, since the discussion of 1816, to alter the connection of Government with its great territory his opinion on any part of the general subject then de- of public lands. This was the idea out of which grew hated, it was that which respects an equal distribution the reservation of the two per cent. fund. It was inof the public expenditures through the different parts tended, doubtless, as an inducement to the settlement of of the Union, according to their population. He doubt- the public lands, and none, surely, can doubt that Goed, extremely, the propriety and even the power of vernment may rightfully hold out considerations calcuCongress to carry on legislation on the principle of bal-lated to bring the public lands to a better market. The ancing the local interests of different sections of the reason for making the road is still the same. Those country. If the business of legislation has been com- lands are still in market, and every rod which is added mitted to us at all, the whole subject is in our power to this road, increases the value, and is calculated to and under our discretion. He doubted whether Con- raise the price of those lands. gress had power to alopt a system which should go on the professed prinople of distributing the public moneys pro rata; having respect to the different portions of the Union merely in a numerical view of them. When Congress legislates at all, it must legislate for a whole, and not for twenty-four parts. The idea had been brought forward, as being calculated to prevent a merely focal legislation; but is was, in truth, itself, a local ide. Such a system would rest on a foundation essentialy vicious. When going into a system of improvement, the House has simply to inquire, Where is improvement most wanted? He cared not whether it was beyond the Alleghanies, or beyond the Missouri; wherever it was most needed, there it must first be made. He supposed the House had power to decide which of the various objects was most pressing; but he denied

Another consideration was, the great accommodation which such a line of road would furnish to all the Western states. With respect to those states, the object was strictly a general one. Let me ask, said Mr. W. if Government were about to erect a fort or an arsenal, or to build ships of war, and it was possible that any of these objects would require so small a sum as that now asked for, whether any body would then hesitate? If, then, the object was legitimate, if it was useful to all our citizens, and especially so to those who now ask it, might not Congress lawfully make it? As to the incidental advantages accruing from the expenditure of so much of the public money as was now proposed to be appropriated, he was confident they had been overrated. The expenditure of 150,000 dollars could be no great boon to any of the states. For his own part, he felt glad that

this money was to be laid out beyond the mountains. He did not hesitate to avow that he should be yet more glad could more of the public money be expended there. Such were his feelings whether right or wrong, and such his views, whether correct or erro

neous.

[JAN. 18, 1825.

If this was a question which might not be asked now, how could it be asked when the system had been adopted and an expenditure, not of 150,000 dollars, but fifty millions of dollars, would be called for to carry it into effect? That, indeed, would be a formidable subject of consideration, (and one which he suspected would And here he would state what he conceived to be the always operate to prevent the adoption of such a systrue situation of that part of the Union. The people tem,) but now the amount was certainly too small to be he considered as being substantially rich, yet, having no in the least degree onerous to the public resources. In markets, they were without the means of converting illustration of the principle that a general system was their riches to many desirable purposes of common life. slow in being adopted, and that it would be necessary And, in such a situation, the expenditure of compara- to commence with some particular object, Mr. W. retively a small sum of money might do much in promot- ferred to the act of last session, for removing obstrucing the comfort of the people. There could be no tions in the Mississippi and Ohio rivers. It was then doubt, if gentlemen looked at the money received into thought extraordinary by many gentlemen, that an obthe Treasury from the sale of the public lands, to the ject in which nine different states were each greatly West, and then looked to the whole amount expended interested should have remained so long unaccomplishby Government, even including the whole of what was ed. But that circumstance was, perhaps, the most laid out for the army, the latter must be allowed to be operative reason why it had not been done. Among so very inconsiderable, and there must be a constant drain many states it was difficult to obtain mutual counsel and of money from the West to pay for the public lands. It united effort, and they thus continued to neglect an might, indeed, be said, that this was no more than the improvement, the want of which had occasioned, at difrefluence of capital which had previously gone over the ferent times, the loss of half a million of dollars, although mountains. Be it so. Still, its practical effect was to it was found that responsible individuals were now ready produce inconvenience, if not distress, by absorbing the to undertake it for 65,000 dollars: a sum which, at least, money of the people. It was as true of the West as of in the Eastern states, would not be viewed as a heavy all other parts of the country, that the consumer pays burden for one single county, or even for a single town. the tax. The public revenue was not raised in Boston, He regarded the country as under a general expectaor New York, or Charleston. The West paid as much tion of aid from the General Government in respect to of that revenue as the East, in proportion to its con- the subject of roads. Congress had virtuallly said to the sumption; nay, on a strict calculation, something more. people of the West, that the road should be carried on They pay the tax and a profit on transportation. True, till it reached them all, and though they might not have indeed, the money was collected in the customhouse, said this in any formal act, yet it had virtually been yet it was first paid where the imported articles were given out in the speeches made on this floor. The consumed. It could not be paid in the sea-ports, if it people consider them as under pledge, and the present had not first been received in the interior. Some gen- bill in carrying on the road for eighty miles, does but tlemen said we must wait, till a system is formed-that carry Congress eighty miles farther towards the redeemis, some system of internal improvement, so equal in its ing of their pledge. bearings, and so satisfactory in its details, that all shall agree in adopting it. He feared if gentlemen waited till then, they would have to wait till they grew very old. He suspected that few of those who heard him would travel over the roads or sail upon the canals constructed after the adoption of the system. How long would it take merely to make the surveys for such a system? Was any man to be found bold enough to un-respect to those lands, was not so much the money dertake to sketch out a system of internal improvements extending for twenty years to come? He would venture to say that no one man could form a plan in which he could get five others to agree. The thing was impracticable-and impracticable for this reason, that our entire condition was merely in a process of development. The country was changing every day and every hour-new views were continually presenting themselves-new wants were continually discovered-new resources were constantly unfolding themseles-new connections were every day taking placeindividuals were doing much-states were doing much and he was satisfied that, if Congress was never to act on individual cases, but only on a universal system, it would never act at all.

This road was wanted-it was wanted now-it was wanted more now than it would be to-morrow; and the expense of making it to-day would be no more than of making it to-morrow. In the settlement of a new country, roads were all-important. The sooner they were opened the greater was their value and importance to the settlers. Ought not the road, then, if it is to be made at all, to be made now?

As to the burden of this appropriation, he agreed, indeed, with the gentleman from South Carolina, that it was proper to limit the public expenditure within reasonable bounds, and to keep down the public debt. Yet he must be permitted to ask, what was likely to be the prodigious effect of this $150,000 upon the public debt?

Government, he believed, had received eighteen or twenty millions of dollars from the public lands, and it was with the greatest satisfaction he adverted to the change which had been introduced in the mode of pay. ing for them; yet he could never think that the National domain was to be regarded as any great source of revenue. The great object of the Government, in derived from their sale, as it was the getting of them settled. What he meant to say, was, that he did not think they ought to hug that domain as a great treasure which was to enrich the exchequer; yet, the consideration that Government has already received large sums from it, had great weight with them, when the persons who proposed it, came to this House, and asked a small appropriation to aid them in doing so.

Mr. McDUFFIE then again rose, and observed, that the honorable gentleman from Massachusetts seemed to have misconceived his views and the extent of the question. He agreed entirely with the gentleman that the idea of a system of internal improvement, which is to have respect merely to the population of different districts of the United States, is entirely visionary. He never threw out any such idea. He never contemplated that any such limitation should enter into the system. On the contrary, said Mr. McD. I agree with him that it will destroy the system. The only works in which the General Government can engage, are such as are national in their character. The constitution restricts them to these alone. A system, then, which proposes to distribute different works, to the different states, in propor tion to their population, must be unconstitutional in its very principle; it appropriates to objects that are local, not national. I agree with the gentleman that we are to make a beginning with some of the objects of the system. I only proposed to inquire, whether this is the proper time to begin. If that gentleman meant to say

that the General Government is under an obligation, or a quasi obligation, from its compact, to go on with this road, at present, I think he is mistaken.

All the appropriations which have hitherto been made under the idea that they are to be refunded from the two per cent. have certainly been made on a mistaken principle. The Government is to make a road to Missouri out of the two per cent. raised in Missouri. It is to make a road to Illinois out of the two per cent. raised in Illinois. If this doctrine is true, then Congress will still have to make an appropriation equal to the amount of the two per cent. in Missouri, for a road to Missouri, and so with respect to each of the other Western states. This clearly shews that Congress is not bound to make the present appropriation; for they have already spent five times as much as the two per cent. in Ohio, and that was the whole extent of their obligation. They have spent what they agreed to spend, for her, and a million and upwards besides; yet an idea has somehow got into circulation, that the Government has not fulfilled its obligations.

It has been said that Congress is now called upon for but a small sum, and how can this affect the Treasury? but, if gentlemen will look at the former appropriations for this road, they will never ask this. The very extravagant amount of a million and a half of dollars was not granted at once. We were called upon, year after year, to give comparatively small sums, and each request was accompanied by the pledge that the petitioners, if gratified, would ask no more, until, at length, the total sum has swelled to its present amount. But the argument, from the smallness of the sum now asked, so far as it operates at all, operates the other way. If you do a Sall thing, you encourage the petitioner to ask again, until, at last, he assumes, as in the present case, a peremptory tone, and talks to you about a compact. Sir, I object to any appropriation, unless for an object as national as the system itself.

The gentleman from Massachusetts has gone into an argument to show that this object is as national in its character as forts, arsenals, &c. Sir, I admit that, to a certain degree, all portions of the country may be interested in it; and, when a system of national internal improvements shall have been perfected, the only question by which I shall be limited in voting appropriations for its accomplishment, is the question "What is the value of the Union?" I know no other limit, but am willing to appropriate the whole value of the United States, if that value can be put into money.

The gentleman appears to have misconceived my argument, with respect to drawing revenue from one part of the country and expending it in another: and in his reply he sets out with the doctrine that it is the consumer who pays the tax. Sir, we all know this. I should be ashamed, indeed, standing as I do on this floor, if that doctrine were new to me. The consumer does pay the tax, but he pays it in the price of the article. But my argument went to shew that, where the tax was raised in any district of the country, and was not returned to that district, in the form of public expenditure, it disturbed the revenue, and had an injurious effect upon the currency, by producing a constant drain of money. To make myself intelligible--if five thousand dollars is raised in Kentucky this year, and spent in the Atlantic states in the next, whether such a process, if continued, will not take from Kentucky all her circulating medium. And what is the effect of such a withdrawal upon any community? It is like the withdrawing of the vital breath from a living being. Sir, it is death—it is annihilation. The question is not whether the West pays its due proportion of the revenue, but the question is where it is raised and where it is expended. And what is the effect of this upon the state of the currency? I said, and I still say, that the money raised for revenue in the West, is balanced by the expenditure of public

[H. of R.

money for the support of the army quartered there. If any portion of the country has, on this subject, a right to complain, it is the interior of that state which I have the honor to represent.

The gentleman from Massachusetts has urged, as one leading reason why the Government should make roads to the West, that these roads have a tendency to settle the public lands-that they increase the inducements to settlement, and that this is a national object. Sir, I differ entirely from his views of the subject. I think that the public lands are settling quite fast enough-that our people need want no stimulus to urge them thither, but want rather a check, at least on that artificial tendency to Western settlement, which we have created by our own laws.

The gentleman says, that the great object of Government, with respect to those lands, is, not to make them a source of revenue, but to get them settled. What would have been thought of this argument in the old thirteen states? It amounts to this, that those states are to offer a bonus for their own impoverishment-to create a vortex to swallow up our floating population. Look, sir, at the present aspect of the Southern states. In no part of Europe will you see the same indications of decay. Deserted villages-houses falling into ruinimpoverished lands thrown out of cultivation. Sir, I believe that if the public lands had never been sold, the aggregate amount of the national wealth would have bet greater at this moment. Our population, if concentrated in the old states, and not ground down by tariffs, would have been more prosperous and more wealthy. But every inducement has been held out to them to settle in the West, until our population has become sparse, and then he effects of this sparseness are now to be counteracted by another artificial system. Sir, I say if there is any object why the attention of this Government, it is a plan which shar limit the sale of the public lands. If those lands were sold according to their real value, be it so. But, while the Goverment continues, as it now does, to give them away, they wi draw the population of the older states, and still farther increase the effect which is already distressingly felt, and which must go to diminish the value of all those states possess. And this, sir, is held out to us as a motive for granting the present appropriation. I would not, indeed, prevent the formation of roads, on these considerations, but I certainly would not encourage it. Sir, there is an additional item in the account of the benefits which this Government has conferred on the Western states. It is the sale of the public lands at the minimum price. At this moment we are selling to the people of the West, lands at one dollar and twenty-five cents an acre, which are fairly worth_fifteen, and which would sell at that price if the markets were not glutted.

Sir, any and every article may have its price run down by sending it to the market in too great abundance, and if you were to fix the minimum price at twenty-five cents, the price in the market would soon go down to that standard.

Sir, it is a fact that ten millions of acres of land have been brought into market at one time. Nor is it at all to be wondered at, that,out of this vast amount, only seven or eight hundred thousand acres have been sold. Mr. McD. observed, that he would not say more on the subject at present, as he intended shortly to bring it before the House in a more distinct and formal manner.

Mr. WEBSTER observed, in reply, that the gentleman from South Carolina had mistaken him if he supposed that it was his wish so to hasten the sales of the public lands as to throw them into the hands of purchasers who would sell again. His idea only went as far as this-that the price should be fixed as low as not to prevent the settlement of the lands, yet not so low as to tempt speculators to purchase. Mr. W. observed that

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Western National Road.

[JAN. 18, 1825.

he could not at all concur with the gentleman from policy of making internal improvements, thought that South Carolina, in wishing to restrain the laboring class-nothing should be done until the entire extinction of the es of population in the Eastern States from going to any national debt, when we should enter on the general part of our territory where they could better their con- system proposed. In this he entirely differed. After dition; nor did he suppose that such an idea was any applying ten millions a year to the extinguishment of the where entertained. The observations of the gentleman national debt, we have an annual surplus of at least three had opened to him new views of policy on this subject, millions of dollars, making no allowance for a certain inand he thought he now could perceive why some of our crease of revenue and diminution of expenditure. This States continued to have such bad roads; it must be for surplus he would employ in internal improvements. the purpose of preventing people from going out of During the present year, upwards of sixteen millions had them. The gentleman from South Carolina supposes, been applied to the national debt; near five millions that if our population had been confined to the old thir-had been paid for Florida, leaving still a balance in the teen States, the aggregate wealth of the country would Treasury of more than four and a half millions. During have been greater than it now is. But, sir, it is an error, the current year, after applying about twelve millions to that the increase of the aggregate of the national wealth the public debt, and paying all the other expenditures is the object chiefly to be pursued by Government. The required, there will remain a balance of about three and distribution of the national wealth is an object quite as a fourth millions of dollars in the Treasury. By applyimportant as its increase. He was not surprised, that ing but ten millions annually, the amount of the exist the old States not increasing in population so fast as ing sinking fund, the whole of the national debt would was expected (for he believed nothing like a decrease be extinguished in about eight years, except the seven was pretended) should be an idea by no means agreea- millions of United States' Bank stock, and the three per ble to gentlemen from those states; we are all reluctant cents. which were payable at the pleasure of the Goin submitting to the loss of relative importance-but vernment. We shall then find ourselves with an annual this was nothing more than the natural condition of a surplus of from 13 to 15 millions of dollars, with which And country densely populated in one part, and possessing gentlemen would commence the grand system. in another a vast tract of unsettled lands. The plan of how are you then, Mr. S. inquired, to expend your 13 the gentleman went to reverse the order of nature, millions a year? Where will you find laborers? Where vainly expecting to retain men within a small and com- will you find engineers, practical men to superintend paratively unproductive territory, "who have all the your numerous works? What will be the effect of throwworld before them where to choose." For his own parting suddenly into circulation thirteen millions a year? he was in favor of letting population take its own course; It will produce an unnatural, feverish, and unwholesome he should experience no feeling of metfication if any circulation in the body politic. It will have the effect of his constituents liked better to sede on the Kansas or of another spawn, another litter of banks upon the comthe Arkansas, or the Lord knows where, within our ter-munity. It will raise the price of labor in an extravaritory; let them go, and he nappier if they could. The gant degree. It will require more than twice the sum gentleman says our gregate of wealth would have to do the same work. Expend 13 millions a year, and, been greater if on population had been restrained with- in less than three years, the price of labor, and every in the limits the old States; but does he not consider thing else, almost, will be more than doubled. populati to be wealth? And has not this been inBut there were other arguments in favor of an immeCred by the settlement of a new and fertile country?diate, gradual, and prudent movement in this great sysSuch a country presents the mast alluring of all pros- tem. You will by this means create a great school, in pects to a young and laboring man; it gives him a free- which your engineers will become practically acquainthold-it offers to him weight and respectability in soci-ed with their business. You will elicit talent and educe ety; and, above all, it presents to him a prospect of a improvements every where in relation to this, as well as permanent provision for his children. Sir, these are in- every thing else we have attempted. You will open a ducements which never were resisted, and never will vast field for the development of the mental energies be; and, were the whole extent of country filled with of this people. Canalling was a new business in this population up to the Rocky Mountains, these induce- country; and that immense improvements would soon ments would carry that population forward to the shores be discovered and introduced, he had no doubt. The of the Pacific Ocean. Sir, it is in vain to talk; individuals Secretary of War had lately offered a thousand dollars will seek their own good, and not any artificial aggre- for the best plan for removing the sawyers, &c. from the gate of the national wealth; a young, enterprising, and Mississippi, under the act of last session, which had prohardy agriculturist, can conceive of nothing better to duced more than 300 models, which were under exami him than plenty of good cheap land. nation, and by which thousands would be saved to the country. Similar causes would produce similar effects, in relation to canals constructed over different elevations and surfaces. Thus millions might be saved by a care. ful and gradual movement, which would be lost by a hurried and wasteful expenditure, by inexperienced and of course incompetent men.

I may have misunderstood what the gentleman from South Carolina first said, in relation to the collection and disbursement of the revenue. I now understand his remarks as only applying to the disturbance in the currency of any portion of the country where large amounts of the revenue are collected, without being again expended. It is true, that those who make an immediate advance of the revenue to Government, must suffer if it does not return into their hands by means of sale and consumption; but he believed that the credit usually allowed by Government to importing merchants was about equal to that allowed by them to the purchasers of goods.

Mr. STEWART, of Pennsylvania, rose in support of the bill. le regretted to find the gentleman from South Carolina, (Mr. M'DCFFIE,) opposed to this measure, from whose talents the friends of the general system had much to hope. With the views of that gentleman in relation to a general system, both at this session and the last, he fully concurred. He regretted now to find that that gentleman, and others friendly to the power and the

But, gentlemen are apprehensive that the general ystem will lose strength by providing for local objects at this time. Not so. It will gain strength. By going on now with a few objects, you demonstrate the utility of such works-you silence opposition by pointing to results, to facts. Has the construction of the New York canal injured the cause of internal improvement? Had the construction of this great work, the Cumberland road, injured the cause of internal improvement? Ask those who have travelled on it. They pronounced their opinions two days ago, on the bill to vest $300,000 as stock in the Delaware and Chesapeake canal-a measure in which the West had no immediate or local interest-yet, in the whole nine States of the West, there were but two votes against it. Such liberal, generous,

and high-minded conduct in the West, in relation to an object in the East, could not fail to produce an equally magnanimous reciprocation of kindness in the East, which he hoped would be displayed in the passage of

this bill.

The gentleman from South Carolina, (Mr. McDUFFIE,) bas contended that the West has been provided for; that they have had their full share; that the two per cent. fund has been expended on the Cumberland road. It was true, two per cent. on the sales of a portion of the public lands had been expended on the Cumberland road-and, if every cent, instead of two per cent. had been expended in the West, he contended the West would still have just claims unsatisfied. Since the organization of the Government, you have expended more than 600 millions of dollars, of which the West paid more than their equal share-and how much of this immense sum had gone to the West? Not ten millions -not one-sixtieth part.

[H. of R.

Mr. S. said, that he had understood the gentleman from South Carolina, (Mr. McDUFFIE,) as he had been understood, too, by the gentleman from Massachusetts, Mr. WEBSTER,) to say that the customs were paid by the Atlantic cities; he was happy, however, to find, from the explanation just afforded by the gentleman, that he had been misunderstood; though he admitted that the duties imposed on foreign goods were ultimately paid by those who consumed them, still the gentleman insists that they are paid in advance by the merchants on the sea-board, and that, therefore, they had a strong claim to its expenditure in the East. This position he thought equally erroneous. The duties were, in fact, paid in advance by the Western to the Eastern merchants. What were the facts? It was a matter notorious to every one, that, at present, the Western merchants almost universally were in the habit of purchasing most of their goods in the Atlantic cities, New York, &c. at auction. The importer added the duties, about 33 per cent. to the price of his goods-put them up at auction, sold them to the Western merchant for cash-put the whole amount in his pocket, and gave the Government his bond for the duties, (about one third of the whole sum,) payable in nine and twelve months, without interest. This statement could not be controverted; the facts were notorious. Who was it then, who paid the millions which enriched the public coffers in advance? It was evidently the Western, and not the

Eastern merchant.

The gentleman contends, however, that the money expended on the seaboard for the defence of the Atlantic cities, and of foreign commerce, is an expenditure for the benefit equally of the East and the West; that the interior has an equal interest in foreign commerce, by which their produce was carried to market. If the gentleman will consent to make us some good roads and canals, on which we can afford to carry our produce to the Atlantic markets, then he confessed there would be some color for the argument; without this, he contended, there was none.

In the last twenty years you have expended more than 470 millions-and how much of it has crossed the Alleghany? Not a fiftieth part of it-not eight millions, excluding the expenditures of the late war. He had said the West had more than their proportion of the revenue-he could demonstrate it. The revenues of the Government are derived from two sources-the customs and public lands. The customs, all admitted, were paid equally by the consumers of imported goods; of course, the West paid of the customs their full proportion. But, how is it in relation to the other source of revenue, the public lands? This was derived almost exclusively from the West; it was paid by those who purchased and improved the immense valley of the Mississippi, for which they have paid into your public exchequer more than sixty millions of dollars. Yet, we are gravely told, they have had their share. Where is it? Where has it been expended? Let the gentleman point to any expenditures of money in the West. Where are their navies, their ships? Where their great forts and fortifications? Where the immense exp nditures for lights, buoys, &c. to protect and facilitate Mr. S. said, he rose, not to enter into a general discustheir vast internal trade? None; none. But, say gen- sion of the merits of the bill under consideration, but tlemen, we have done more than we were bound by our merely for the purpose of noticing some of the argu compact to do for the West; we have expended more ments advanced by the gentleman from South Carolina, than the two per cent. on the Cumberland road. The (Mr. McDUFFIE,) which had not been answered by the Cumberland road was not to be charged to the West; gentleman from Massachusetts, (Mr. WEBSTER,) to there is not a foot, not an inch of it in any Western state; whom he felt much indebted for the able and disinterit commences in Maryland and terminates in Virginia.ested part he had taken on this occasion. This object, But have the East no interest in the extension of this road? Will it not enhance the value of your public lands, bring them more rapidly into market, and facilitate their settlement?

The honorable gentleman from South Carolina, (Mr. MCDUFFIE,) has told us that the late war was declared for the defence of the West, to repel the tomahawk and scalping knife. This Mr. S. denied. He contended that it was a war emphatically declared in defence of "free trade and sailor's rights"—it was a war declared in defence of commerce, in vindication of our neutral rights on the high seas. Who will deny that the great causes of the war were the impressment of our seamen and the plunder of our commerce? The merciless tomahawk and scalping knife, to which the gentleman has referred as an off-set against Western claims, was a consequence, and not a cause of the war. It was your war for "free trade and sailor's rights," that let loose the ruthless Savage on our defenceless Western frontier, whose bloody han dealt indiscriminate destruction to all "ages, sexes, and conditions." But the people of the West, he said, had fought and bled gloriously in your war for free trade, they had poured out their blood like water, and now, when they ask for a pittance to make a road out of your ample treasury, which has drained their pockets to the last cent, was it liberal, was it generous, was it just, to refuse it? VOL. I.-17

however, he hoped he might be permitted to say, in conclusion, had peculiar merits. The work had already been commenced, and was in part finished. This road the Government was bound, by its compact with Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, and Missouri, to extend to the Mississippi river. The ground to Zanesville, as far as this bill proposes going, has been carefully surveyed; the route of the road located and fixed, and the estimates all completed and deposited in the proper department: we have the money; a balance of several millions will remain in the Treasury at the end of the year, idle and useless; he therefore hoped, that the pittance asked for, $150,000, to prosecute this grand, this noble undertaking, equally important to the East and the West, as a great national thoroughfare between the Atlantic and Western World, would be granted. The liberal disposition just displayed by the gentlemen of the West, in relation to the Delaware and Chesapeake Canal (nine Western states giving but two votes against it,) he hoped would be reciprocated by their brethern of the East, by their concurrence in the passage of the bill under consider. ation.

Mr. WOOD, of N. Y. then rose and said that he was not now going to enter into any constitutional discussion, but merely to appeal to the generosity of the friends of the bill, by asking them to put it on a footing where those who differ from them on the constitutional ques