FEB. 23, 1825.] Fortifications in North Carolina, &c.—Indian Annuities, &c.

House had no information to govern them, that there would be detailed estimates from the War Department, going down to the number of loads of stone that would be required to build the forts, and the number of men to man them; these fortifications were necessary to the protection of North Carolina, and were quite as proper as those of Boston, Providence, New York, or in the Chesapeake.

There was no objection on the score of means, and it was always necessary, when a fort was about to be built, to appropriate at least a year beforehand, by way of preparation. This course had always been pursued, &c.

Mr. M'COY opposed the amendment; he could never consent, while Dauphin Island and Fort Washington stared him in the face, to go on to appropriate, until he knew with certainty, that the fort about to be built was needed, and would be useful. In the former case, after voting away $300,000 on estimates by skilful Engineers, Congress had made the discovery, that the fort would be of no use; and, as to Fort Washington, it had now been found necessary to build another fort to protect it.

Mr. MANGUM, of North Carolina, felt assured that any gentleman who would inspect a map of the country, must perceive the necessity of some fortification on the coast of North Carolina. He believed that information was called for, only because gentlemen had not duly attended to that which had been laid before the House. He did not rise to enter into the general argument, but to express his admiration of the principles avowed by some of the gentlemen who were opposed to the appropriation. That admiration was so great that he could not sufficiently express it. How could he sufficiently admire the vigilance of the gentleman from Tennessee, who, with sleepless eye, ever sts like an incubus, on the Treasury box, holding a drawn sword in his hand How could he enough admire the wise and sage maxims of the gentleman from Connecticut. Yet he feared, that, if the House should yield to the arguments of those gentlemen, that, in the matter of fortifications, not only the Government, but the whole nation, had been quite in the wrong. In the one case, we are told that not a dollar is to be wrung from the iron chest of the people without a struggle; and on the other, that not a fortification must be erected on the coast, because, forsooth, it will attract the enemy! This was broad doctrine; and, if it was entitled to that estimation in which those gentlemen no doubt held it, the Govern ment must be greatly indebted for the new lights which they have discovered. He always felt humbled when he came before this House to ask any thing for the state which he had the honor to represent: yet he believed that every gentleman of the House, (the gentle. man from Tennessee always excepted,) would allow that the state had not asked from the Government more than her due proportion. He asked if North Carolina was hot entitled to some fortification, while, at the South, Government was building forts in a wilderness so situated, that even if the enemy took them, they would have to march one hundred miles through mosquitoes and wild beasts, before they could find any men to attack. He would not descant on the old and worn out subjects so often urged upon the House. He would not weary it with describing the patriotism which North Carolina had displayed, nor say how close it hugged the Union. He would only observe, in conclusion, that, though one of the oldest states in the Union, it had rarely come before Congress in the attitude of a petitioner.

Mr. NEWTON, (Chairman of the Committee of Commerce,) observed, that all the coasting trade of the Union, and all other trade which passed from North to South, had to pass by this coast. That, by placing competent fortifications upon it, the Government would save immense property.

[H. of R.

would, in case of war, convey all the materials of our manufactures from the Southern States, and, unless they were defended, our coasting trade might, at any time, be cut off.

After a few more observations from Messrs. COOK and SPAIGHT, the question was taken on the Senate's amendment, and carried-ayes 82, noes 33.

66

The second amendment of the Senate, which consisted of the following proviso respecting certain islands in Boston Harbor, viz: 'Provided, however, That the right of soil of said islands shall be first vested in the United States;" was agreed to without opposition. The last amendment of the Senate proposes to insert, at the end of the bill, the following: "For a school of practice for Light Artillery at Fortress Monroe, $9,940."

After having been explained and advocated by Mr. HAMILTON, on the grounds stated in our report of a former debate on this subject, this amendment was opposed by Mr. VANCE, of Ohio, who objected to the appropriation as leading to other and great expenses, and not needed at present.

Mr. HAMILTON spoke in reply, vindicated the eco. nomy and usefulness of the measure, and earnestly pressed its adoption by the House.

When the question being taken, the amendment was disagreed to by a large majority.

INDIAN ANNUITIES, &c.

The House then proceeded to consider the Senate's amendments to the additional Military Appropriation Bill, which consisted of the following clauses:

"For the payment of the annuity to the Sock and Fox tribes, as provided for by the third article of the treaty with those tribes, dated the 4th August, 1824, 1,000 dollars.

For do, to the loway tribe, 500 dollars.

For payment of 500 dollars to each of the four head chiefs of the Quapaw tribe, 2,000 dollars.

For payment of the annuity to that tribe, 1,000 dollars.

For the purchase of provisions for six months, 15,372 dollars.

For furnishing facilities for the transportation of said Indians, 1,000 dollars.

For the pay of a sub-agent as interpreter, to reside among them, 500 dollars.

For the payment of annuities to the Choctaws, and an annuity to Robert Cole, 12,150 dollars.

For the payment of claims of the Choctaw nation, for services in the Pensacola campaign, and other claims of the same tribe, 16,972 dollars 50 cents.

For the salary of the Agent, 1,500 dollars.

For carrying into effect the provisions of the ninth article of said Treaty; the provisions of the third article, for the survey and sale of the 54 sections of land therin referred to; and for running the line defined in the first article; and any other expenses arising out of the execution of said Treaty, 10,000 dollars."

Mr. FORSYTH objected to concurring with these amendments, until they had been submitted to the revision of a committee of the House. He thought it an objectionable mode of legislation to appropriate money merely at the suggestion of a Department, that certain treaties had been entered into. A committee ought to inquire whether the sums here mentioned are required by the treaties referred to, &c

Mr. M'LANE replied, and on his motion the commit. tee rose, and reported both bills. The House agreed to the two first amendments of the Senate to the bill for fortifications. The last amendment, viz: for a school of practice for Light Artillery, being under consideration

The Sounds on that coast Mr. NEWTON, advocated its adoption, as necessary

Senate.]

Cumberland Road-Delaware and Chesapeake Canal.

to perfect the education of the officers of our little army, and prepare them for actual service, when required. He alluded to the disasters of the last war as teaching an impressive lesson on this subject. The expense was trifling in comparison with the object.

[FEB. 24, 1825.

scription on behalf of the United States, of 1,500 snares of the capital stock of the Delaware and Chesapeake Canal.

Mr. TAZEWELL moved the adoption of two additional sections to the bill, embracing provisions for auThe House concurred in the vote of the committee, thorizing a subscription, on behalf of the Government, rejecting the amendment, by a very large majority. of 400 shares of the capital stock of the Dismal swamp Mr. FORSYTH moved the committment of the amend-Canal Company, (which connects the waters of the ments to the Additional Military Appropriation Bill, to Chesapeake with those of Albemarle Sound.) the Committee of Ways and Means.

Mr. M'LANE, chairman of that committee, opposed the recommitment as unnecessary, and moved that the bill be laid on the table; which motion was carried. And then, at a late hour, the House adjourned.

IN SENATE-THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 24, 1825. Mr. NOBLE submitted the resolution of the General Assembly of Indiana, disapproving the amendment proposed by the state of Georgia to the Constitution of the United States, on the subject of the ingress of people of color into the several states of the Union; which was read.

CUMBERLAND ROAD.

The Senate resumed, as in committee of the whole, (Mr. KING, of Alabama, in the Chair,) the bill appropriating 150,000 dollars for the extension of the Cumberland Road.

Mr. HOLMES, of Maine, for the reasons which he submitted, moved to strike Illinois and Missouri from the bill, so as to confine it to the fund growing out of the compacts with Ohio and Indiana only.

On this motion a good deal of debate took place, in which Messrs. HOLMES, of Maine, NOBLE, SMITH, CHANDLER, HOLMES, of Miss. TALBOT, MACON, SEYMOUR, EATON, and LLOYD, of Massachusetts, took part.

The question was decided against the amendment, by yeas and nays, and as follows:

YEAS.-Messrs. Bell, Branch, Chandler, Clayton, Dickerson, Findlay, Holmes, of Maine, Holmes, of Miss. King, of N. Y. Knight, Macon, Tazewell-12.

NAYS.-Messrs. Barbour, Barton, Benton, Bouligny, Brown, D'Wolf, Eaton, Edwards, Elliott, Hayne, Jackson, Johnson, Ken. Johnston, of Lou. Kelly, King, of Alabama, Lanman, Lloyd, of Mass. Lowrie, M'Ilvaine, M'Lane, Mills, Noble, Palmer, Parrott, Ruggles, Seymour, Smith, Talbot, Taylor, Thomas, Van Buren, Van Dyke, Williams-33.

Mr. SEYMOUR then, conformably to the views he had previously suggested, moved the addition of the following proviso to the bill:

"Provided, This act do not take effect until the consent of the states of Illinois and Missouri to this appropriation of the said funds be expressed by act of their respective Legislatures."

The question was taken on this amendment, without debate, and decided in the negative; ayes 12.

The bill was then reported to the Senate without amendment, and ordered to a third reading by the following vote:

YEAS.-Messrs. Barton, Benton, Bouligny, Brown, D'Wolf, Eaton, Edwards, Holmes, of Maine, Jackson, Johnson, of Kentucky, Johnston, of Louisiana, Kelly, King, of Alabama, Knight, Lanman, Lloyd, of Mass. Lowrie, M'Ilvaine, M'Lean, Noble, Palmer, Parrot, Ruggles, Smith, Talbot, Taylor, Thomas, Van Dyke-28. NAYS.-Messrs. Barbour, Bell, Branch Chandler, Clayton, Dickerson, Elliott, Findlay, Hayne, Holmes, of Mississippi, King, of New York, Macon, Mills, Tazewell, Van Buren, Williams-16.

DELAWARE AND CHESAPEAKE CANAL.

Mr. TAZEWELL, in offering his amendment, made a few remarks to shew the importance of the work which it was his wish to aid-the necessity of such aid to make it what it ought to be, &c. He drew a parallel between the two works to shew their similarity and identity of purpose and effect-the first, opening an interior communication between the Delaware and Chesapeake wa ters-the other connecting the Chesapeake and the w ters of North Carolina; and thus making an immense extension of the benefit which the Delaware Cant would effect. This is in part the substance only of as remarks-the speaker being indistinctly heard by the reporter.

Mr. BROWN thought it was his duty to oppose this amendment, because the present was not, in his opi nion, the proper time to urge it. The gentleman m Virginia (Mr. TAZEWELL) had professed himself opp sed to the grand connection of the whole coast of the Atlantic by internal navigation, which struck his (Mr. B's) and as a most magnificent and useful project, and one which was of the utmost importance to the nation-they would s be sure to feel the benefits of it whether they were at an peace or war-he declared he had not the least objec tion to assist the Canal Company of Virginia-he cons dered that Canal a most important link in the great chain; but to introduce it at this time would defeat the The object which this bill contemplated, at least for the pre sent year.

The Chesapeake and Delaware Company wanted the sum now asked for, to complete the Canal which had al ready been begun. The first act incorporating this Com pany was passed in the year 1799; it had received the sanction of the different States through which it passe and had attracted the attention of the most enlighten d statesmen from the time of the adoption of the constitu tion. This chain was recommended by Mr. Gallatin, in his able report, which alone would be sufficient to inmortalise his memory.

It was presumed by those who are well acquainted with the localities, and the course the Canal has to pass, that this would be good stock-stock which the United States could realize when they thought it necessary to assist in the extension of further improvements, probably without any loss.

The question of the constitutionality of appropriating public money for these objects, had been, Mr. B. said, so thoroughly discussed by men so much more able than himself, that it was perfectly unnecessary for him to touch upon that topic-it would be sufficient to say, in answer to the objection made by the gentleman from Georgia, (Mr. COBB,) that, if this power was not grant. ed, as was the opinion of Publius, in the "Federalist," that gentleman had signed bills for the appropriations for the Cumberland Road.

This bill, Mr. B. said, broke no ground-it claimed no sovereignty, nor trespassed on any domain. If there could be any objection, it would arise from the United States being placed in the attitude of corporators, subject to the law of the State. This was an objection which had long ago been got over in a case of much more importance to the United States-that was, the incorporation of the Bank of the United States. There fore, there could be no objections to their becoming shareholders.

Mr. SMITH said, the State of Maryland had always The Senate next took up the bill authorizing a sub- taken a deep interest in this Canal. It had not only

=

FEB. 24, 1825.]

Delaware and Chesapeake Canal.

[Senate.

granted a corporation, but had subscribed money to-
wards its completion. Therefore, it seemed a duty on
his part to say something on the present occasion. He
was not one of those who concurred with the gentleman
from Virginia, (Mг. TAZEWELL,) in his views. Mr. S.
said, he had always been in favor of internal improve-propriating the public money for that purpose.
ment, so far as it could be executed according to what
he considered the true construction of the Constitution,
and he thought the present measure came within the
true construction of it. It was the beginning of the
great chain of internal intercourse from Cape Fear to
Boston, and this Canal being completed, would show
that all the others were indispensably necessary, and
would, at the proper time, be taken up.

Mr. VAN DYKE thought, from what the gentleman from Virginia had said, he might predict he was not opposed to the system of internal improvements and constructing canals: for by his offering the proposition he had done, he seemed to say he had no scruples as to ap

The proposition of the gentleman was, he thought, worthy of great consideration; the Canal alluded to by him, was highly important to this great chain, and ought to be perfected; he should, therefore, when it was brought forward at a proper time, give it his most cordial support.

Considering him, therefore, as a friend to the present measure, Mr. V. D. said he would ask him to consider how much the amendment he had proposed would impede it, by introducing a proposition new in its character, which had never been under the consideration of Congress; which had never been referred to any committee, which they had no official information to act upon, and which would, therefore, be the very means of defeating the object of the bill. Under this view, therefore, Mr. V. D. hoped he would withdraw his amendment.

In opposing the amendment, Mr. V. D. said he acted in conformity with the course that had been pursued in the House-placing each proposition for appropriating money on its own specific character and grounds. Instance the bill proposed to subscribe for a certain number of shares for the completion of a highly useful and necessary work; it was not proposed to give the money, but to subscribe for a portion of the stock, to enable the company to go on with their operations.

Mr. S. said, he understood that the sums subscribed by the States of Pennsylvania, Maryland, and Delaware, with that subscribed by individuals, would, with the appropriation now asked for from Congress, be sufficient to complete the work. As far as they had hitherto proceeded, the cost was within the estimate, and when this work was done, that alluded to by the gentleman from It was a subject, he said, that had been before ConVirginia would be done also, and the communicationgress on many occasions, and had been approved of by from Cape Fear to the Delaware would be complete. the Senate many years ago. It had been discussed, and The subscription had rapidly filled for forming the Ca- thoroughly discussed in the House of Representatives, nal to unite the Delaware and Raritan; which was a most and that House was willing, if the Senate would concur, important measure in reference to a time of war; and, to take so many shares. Mr. V. D. deprecated the idea in time of peace, would save insurance and lessen the of bringing forward another and a new proposition to coasting trade, which was the only objection he had to attach to it, proceeding on an untrodden ground, to emit. The East River, Long Island Sound, &c. made al- barrass the Legislature-a proposition for an object most an internal communication with Boston; and, if the which they may have heard of individually, but which Canal were made, cutting off the dangerous navigation had not been the subject of inquiry, and which they had round Cape Cod, there would be, in some sort, an inter- now neither time nor opportunity to investigate. nal navigation from Cape Fear to Boston, and he thought the time would come when Pensacola would be connected by a Canal.

The subject of subscribing stock to this canal, Mr. S. said, was brought forward about 20 years ago, and passed the Senate. The gentlemen from the West, anxious, and laudably anxious, for their own benefit, introduced an amendment, in itself important, asking an appropriation to assist in carrying a Canal round the falls of Ohio. The consequence was, one broke down the other. The liberality and honorable sentiments of the gentleman from Virginia, were well known, and he could not be suspected of making this motion with the intention of defeating the object of the bill; yet, if his amendment should prevail, the bill would be so clogged, that it could not pass during the present session. But, if this bill were now to pass, it would be a strong assurance that the Canal would be completed, and the gentleman from Virginia might be confident that his project would, in due time, be likewise completed-but this Canal would be of consequence to Virginia and North Carolina, for it would give them two new markets.

Mr. S. said, he would lay the constitutionality of the question aside. He was speaking now simply on its expediency, and, in that respect, he trusted there would be but one opinion; but, by making the addition proposed by the honorable gentleman from Virginia, the whole scheme would probably fail. If he wanted money to be appropriated for forming a canal through the Dismal Swamp, this was not the way to get it. If he would bring his plan forward next session, the passing this bill at this time, would ensure its success. The advantages this Canal would offer to Virginia and North Carolina, would be an internal communication with Philadelphia and New York, and he was confident would ensure the votes of the gentlemen from those states, should they not be deterred by the Constitutional question. VOL, L.-43

It would, he thought, be very unreasonable to take up the time of the Senate, by entering into any detail of the importance of the work which the bill proposed to aid, and of encouraging such improvements. All these questions had been discussed over and over again; public sentiment was now matured, and was entirely settled on this point. This work inust be considered as a national work, for it had never been looked upon as private stock; in former times the want of it had been most heavily felt.

Mr. V. D. said, he had a statement of the expenses incurred during the last war, of transporting cannon across the Isthmus of 14 miles, and it was most astonishing. One hundred pieces of cannon were transported from French Town to Newcastle, which cost $4551, and 64 pieces were carried to Brunswick at an expense of $2099. Some masts were carried across to Newcastle, the transportation of which cost $8636. This Canal was, therefore, a matter of great interest to the nation in the time of war, for the transportation of troops, provisions, and ammunition; and if Congress now lent their aid to assist them, in two or three years the work would be completed.

Mr. LOWRIE, of Pa. thought this amendment would as effectually defeat the object of the bill as a majority of noes on the original proposition. Viewing as he did with a favorable eye, the project advocated by the gentleman from Virginia, he could not agree with him in all the particulars of the parallel he had drawn between the two projects. For many years the subject of the hesapeake and Delaware Canal has been before Congress, and the attention of the Senate had been particularly drawn to it-for the last 6 years they had reported in its favor-statements had been submitted, going into detail, and the bill had been discussed in, and had passed through, the House of Representatives; and now a new project was offered; if it had been proposed at the early part of

the session, it would have followed the usual course, would have been submitted to a committee, and would have been consequently acted on; but if it were now urged on, crowded as they were by business, they must vote on trust; he therefore hoped the amendment would not prevail. If the project had all the merit its friends ascribed to it, it could not fail of succeeding at a future period.

[FEB. 24, 1825.

port his troops across the peninsula between the Chesapeake and the Delaware, the difficulties were found to be nearly insurmountable, and even the transportation of the baggage was matter of great difficulty, and caused considerable delay; he hoped that this amendment would not prevail, for in that case, the bill, so clogged, must be lost.

Mr. TAZEWELL replied to the objection, that sufficient time had not been afforded for the examination of the subject, by saying that the bill now under discussion had, it was true, been laying on the table for several weeks past, but it was nothing more than the printed bill of the House of Representatives, that had passed two readings in that body; and its consideration here was not more mature than that of the amendment he had just of fered: the only reason, however, why his proposition was introduced as an amendment to this bill was, because there was not time for it to pass through the two Houses as an original and separate proposition; but that, when returned to the House as an amendment to the present bill, it would have sufficient time to pass.

Mr. BENTON, of Missouri, said, he should vote in

Mr. BRANCH, of N. C. said the proposition of the gentleman from Virginia was of more importance to the section of country he had the honor to represent, than any that had ever been brought before Congress; it was connected with the destinies, not only of the east bat the west part of the State. The Senate would recollect, that the Roanoke River had as much fertile land in its vicinity as any part of the Atlantic States. That river, he said, takes its rise in the western part of Virginia, waters the western parts of North Carolina and Virginia, and at this moment more produce is raised in the vicinity of this river, proportionably, than in any of the Atlantic States. Four years ago, a company was chartered by the Legislature of North Carolina, to improve the navigation of the Roanoke River-its funds had all been ex-favor of the amendment. Although the subject was treatpended, and the navigation was now nearly completed; the canal round the principal falls of the Roanoke was now excavated, and if they had any way of getting to the sea, they might carry on a most extensive and lucrative trade; the proposition now offered, was the only one by which they could get their produce to market; the funds of the Dismal Swamp Canal Company were exhausted, and the present assistance was asked to enable them to complete the Canal. Mr. B. said, his friend from Virgi- Mr. B. said, he considered the plan of internal navigania (Mr. TAZEWELL) had clearly shown how intimately the tion from St. Mary's to Boston, as one entire work, and two projects were connected, and he believed if some- he would lend all the aid in his power to effect it from thing were not done, all the money expended in North one end to the other; yet he was indisposed to carry on Carolina in improving the Roanoke River would prove so a work of this description by piece meal. He looked much money thrown away. He thought they could not on the works proposed to connect the waters on the be charged with encumbering the present bill. If Con- front of the Atlantic Coast in the same point of view. gress, by a majority, had no constitutional difficulties; The able report of Mr. Gallatin, or that subject, showed if they could embark on the subject of internal improve that there were but eighty or ninety miles of cutting ments, why should not the people of North Carolina re-required to connect the whole of the tide waters from ceive some portion of the benefit to be derived from that system?

ed here as a new one, it was a proposition which was familiar to the public mind; it related to a way that had been travelled at least for seventeen years; there was no doubt that Washington had seriously considered the project, and indeed it had been before the public so frequently, and in so many forms, that every gen tleman's attention must have been drawn to it and his conclusions formed.

for transportation during the late war, over roads so abominable as to make the cannon balls cost a dollar a pound, was it to be supposed that in time of peace, with increasing resources, they could not afford to pay for the construction of roads, which, in time to come, would prevent such an enormous waste of money? The whole system would not, in his opinion, cost more than half the sum that was expended for transportation during the late war. He should vote in favor of the proposition of the gentleman from Virginia, because he was willing it should share the same fate as the original bill, and because, although he was devoted to the completion of the entire system, he objected to the patch work way in which it presented itself.

St. Mary's to Boston. He wished that the whole system should be adopted, and completed at once, and then Mr. VAN DYKE said it was from the offering of the confidence would be established throughout the whole amendment itself he had formed the idea that the gentle- Union. With respect to the ability to complete this inman from Virginia was favorable to the system of inter-land navigation, when there were but ninety miles to nal improvements; but, if he was mistaken, he had only to cut through, it could not be doubted. When it was consay, he perceived he was not to consider him as an ad-sidered that sixty millions of dollars had been expended vocate for the measure proposed by the bill. He asked the gentleman whether it could be possible, if this bill, thus clogged, were sent back to the House, it could finally pass that body during the present session? Considering the discussion it would necessarily elicit, and the minute attention it must receive, the impression on his mind was the object of the bill would inevitably be defeated. Mr. V. D. said he did not oppose the amendment because he was unwilling to afford any assistance towards the ac complishment of the object they advocated; it was not on the ground that the project was not to be completed, or was not to form one of the links in the great chain; but he inquired why this amendment had not been proposed to the committee, so that it might have been fully examined, and, when the bill was reported, there would have been no need of further amendment, and the information submitted in detail would have brought the House of Representatives to view it in the same light in which it was viewed by the Senate. But this amendment was proposed just at the close of the session; and it introduced new matter altogether, which they could not at this moment discuss. As to the importance of the Dismal Swamp Canal, he had no doubt that Gen. Washington did, looking to the wants and resources of the country, notice this as a most important project to which the attention of Virginia and North Carolina should be directed. It was a fact well known to every one, that during the Revolutionary War, when Washington had to trans- |

Mr. B. was opposed, however, to the manner in which this money was to be applied. He did not approve of associations between this Government and the people of the United States. By the bill, this great Government became nothing less than stockholders in an act of incorporation in one of the States. If they began in this way, subscribing to different associations, they would doubtless have innumerable applications of this descrip tion; every one would commence by demonstrating in as clear a manner as Euclid himself could demonstrate, that it would be a great money making business for the United States; and by and by, petition would follow petition, praying a subscription of stock.

Mr. B. concluded by observing, that, on the report

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