it is good business to increase the efficiency of their men. There are many companies that have some organization for handling their training problems but there are perhaps a thousand that have never given serious consideration to organized training for every one that has given consideration to it. The Federal board has done constructive work in the field of industrial education in all sorts of industries ranging from pulp and paper mills to coal mines, from automobile factories and machine shops to-I was going to say oil refineries, but I am afraid I might be investigated for doing so. However, our contacts with the oil refineries have been strictly from an educational standpoint.

The service rendered in Maryland has consisted of putting on a training program for a number of industries to study this vocational problem from within the plants, not with the idea that we were trying to force anything upon them, to take their employees away from them and put them in school, but with the idea of equipping people to work within their organizations by assisting them in handling their own programs more effectively. The Federal board has considerable evidence on hand to show that this work has been effective and worth while, not only in the State of Maryland but in many other States including Maine, Rhode Island, New York, Pennsylvania, Virginia, North Carolina, Indiana, Wisconsin, Montana, Washington, Idaho, California, Utah, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, Oklahoma, Mississippi, Kentucky, Tennessee and a number of other States.

It should be understood that my remarks refer to but one particular phase of the larger problem of effective vocational education. The CHAIRMAN. Can you give us a case?

Mr. CUSHMAN. I think Mr. Sanders can give you one.

Mr. SANDERS. There is one thing that has been brought out in this work with the United States Industrial Chemical Co. which the manager told me last week would result in a yearly saving of $10,000. There are many more beneficial results to which we can point as a direct outcome of the program.

A sugar company out in Utah in a letter stated that the turnover on the work in one year saved them $100,000.

Mr. TUCKER. Who was the letter from?

Mr. SANDERS. From the president of the Utah Sugar Co., who has sugar refineries in Idaho and in Utah.

Mr. CUSHMAN. I think the time is short. I shall not talk further unless there are some questions. As an illustration of the extent of these contacts the following list of organizations may be noted:

Miami Copper Co., Miami, Ariz.

Axelson Machine Co., Los Angeles, Calif.
Holt Tractor Co., Stockton, Calif.

Rutledge Timber Co., Coeur d'Alene, Idaho.

Remy Electric Co., Anderson, Ind.

Anglo American Mills, Owensboro, Ky.

Pejepscot Paper Co., Brunswick, Me.

U. S. Industrial Alcohol Co., Baltimore, Md.
Anaconda Copper Co., Butte, Mont.
Champion Fibre Co., Canton, N. C.
Cosden & Co., Tulsa, Okla.

Hammermill Paper Co., Erie, Pa.

B. B. & R. Knight (Inc.), Providence, R. I.
Tennessee Copper Co., Knoxville, Tenn.

Northern Texas Traction Co., Austin, Tex.

Utah-Idaho Sugar Co., Salt Lake City, Utah.
Stonega Coke and Coal Co., Big Stone Gap, Va.
Washington Pulp & Paper Co., Port Angeles, Wash.
American Smelter & Refining Co., Salt Lake City, Utah.
Van Slyke & Horton Cigar Co., Kingston, N. Y.
Nekoosa-Edwards Paper Co., Port Edwards, Wis.
Saco-Lowell Shops, Biddeford, Me.

In addition to the list just given of representative plants in which foremen conferences have been held on the two weeks intensive plan, a large number of plants have come into contact with the foreman training work of the Federal Board either by having representatives present at conferences in other plants or at general conferences, or in some other way. Among those who have benefited in this more indirect way from the work of the board are the following:

Carolina Cotton & Woolen mills, Spray, N. C.

Bucyrus Co., Milwaukee, Wis.

Tennessee Furniture Corporation, Chattanooga, Tenn,

Sinclair Oil Refining Co., East Chicago, Ind.

Marshall Wells Co., Duluth, Minn.

Klearflax Linen Rug Co., Duluth, Minn.

Amalgamated Sugar Co., Ogden, Utah.

Nashville Railway & Light Co., Nashville, Tenn.

Coleman Lamp Co., Wichita, Kans.

Northwestern Bell Telephone Co., Minneapolis, Minn.

Southern Pacific Railroad Co.

Westinghouse Electric & Manufacturing Co., South Philadelphia, Pa.
Pennsylvania Railroad Co., Harrisburg, Pa.

Dill & Collins Co., Philadelphia, Pa.
New Jersey Zinc Co., Palmerton, Pa.
Crown-Willamette Paper Co., Portland, Oreg.
Everett Pulp & Paper Co., Everett, Wash.

A. M. Collins Manufacturing Co., Philadelphia, Pa.
Illinois Central Railroad Co., Meridian, Miss.
Kelly-Springfield Tire Co., Cumberland, Md.
James Clark, jr., Electric Co., Louisville, Ky.
Pomona Mills, Greensboro, N. C.

Association of Employing Printers, New York City.
Inland Empire Paper Co., Mill Wood, Wash.

To this group might be added what would probably be a larger group, if complete data were available of those firms which have. received assistance from State officers who have undertaken the work independently or have taken it up after its initiation by the Federal board. Some of this appears in the summary by States. This is true in those cases where the State authorities have sent in this information along with the other requested.

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Among the men in the States who have had some training for this work, whether by attendance at conferences held by the Federal board or otherwise, are men of the University of Alabama, the University of California, the Georgia Institute of Technology, the Indiana University, the University of Maryland, the University of Cincinnati, the University of Minnesota, the Ohio State University, the University of Texas, the Texas Agricultural and Mechanical College, the Utah Agricultural College, and the University of West Virginia; and from the State departments of vocational education of California, Colorado, Delaware, Georgia, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kentucky, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, Nebraska, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, North Carolina, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, and Washington.

Mr. WRIGHT. Supplementing what Mr. Cushman has said regarding the plant training there will be inserted in a later portion of the report of the hearing a number of letters, telegrams, and resolutions referring to these activities. These industries and organizations represent a cross section of the business of the country. For instance, I have a letter here from Mr. Dwight L. Hoopingarner, executive secretary of the American Construction Council of New York City; a letter from Mr. Harrison, president of the Hammermill Paper Co., Erie, Pa.; a telegram from Mr. F. W. Walker, of Beaver Falls, Pa., secretary of the Associated Tile Manufacturers; a letter from the National Building Trade Employers' Association, together with many others. Copies of these statements will appear later in the report.

I will read at this time two telegrams which will also be in the record. This telegram is from Mr. L. H. Dennis, director State board for vocational education, Harrisburg, Pa., and president of the National Society for Vocational Education. He was unable to be present to-day. I will also read another telegram from Mr. John A. Lapp, editor Nation's Health, 22 East Ontario Street, Chicago, Ill. Mr. Lapp is a prominent social worker and a man known to many of you. He was very much interested in the initial legislation passed seven years ago.

It is not necessary to copy these telegrams in the record here as they are included in the exhibits which I am filing herewith.

Mr. WRIGHT. The next speaker who will appear before you is Mr. R. L. Cooley, director of vocational education in Milwaukee, Wis.

STATEMENT OF MR. R. L. COOLEY, DIRECTOR, VOCATIONAL EDUCATION, MILWAUKEE, WIS.

Mr. COOLEY. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the committee, I came from Milwaukee especially for this meeting. It is the only purpose I have in coming here. I came as a representative of the industrial board of the board of education of the city of Milwaukee. I have to begin by saying that I do not care-well, in Washington I will say a continental whether this movement makes $1 for an employee, and I am here to say that I have said that in groups of employers in the city of Milwaukee and have been applauded. I have no interest in the movement from that standpoint, except merely as it is a by-product My interest is solely, only, and expressly in the boys and girls of our cities and our country, and I believe firmly that when we do the best thing for them we have done the best thing for the employers, and the best thing for labor, and by doing that and making that only our polar star by which to navigate, can we hope to reconcile and ever have working in harmony these two conflicting interests.

You have but little time Perhaps I can get at the reasons whywe stand for the Federal Board for Vocational Education as it is, by calling your attention to the fact that just as we have a Federal board organized, as you know it is, federally, we have in Wisconsin a State board organized in the same way, and then right down in the communities, next to the skins of the people, we have the local board organized in exactly the same way. So I represent the capillary-I am a way out next to the people.

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You are going to hear from the fellow back home now. I want to tell that it has worked out. The bulk of our trouble is the misyou understanding, the confusion that comes from poor organization and poor administration, and I want to tell you how it works out right back where you have got to get the money out of the pockets of the people. As you know, you can take money from the Federal Government with considerable ease, and when it gets to the State government it is a little less easy, and when it gets back to the taxpayer and you have to take it out of their living, you are getting right down where it hurts.

I want to say to you that all the way down we have received the sort of fostering aid and support from the Federal Government we need, and we are satisfied with it We have received the fostering aid from the State government, and we are satisfied with it, and then with the representatives of the board reaching the various elements in the community, enlightening them, reaching them in a way that they have believed us, we have been able to get the support from the communities and I am going to invite your attention to a model in miniature of this thing as it works right back to the people.

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Here [referring to a diagram] is a roughly drawn rectangle, which represents the population of the city of Milwaukee. I am sorry I got so much in here, but while I was waiting I gathered one idea after another, so that I have too much for you to appreciate at a glance perhaps. But that rectangle represents the city of Milwaukee. This lower line is to represent 14 years of age, and we have in our public schools in Milwaukee 90,000 boys and girls of less of years age. Then this darker line here, marked A-B, is for our high schools. You will notice that a great many more people graduate from high school horizontally than vertically. The usual method of leaving high school is on your back out that way [indicating]. It is relatively a small proportion that go out head up. So we have young people leaving the high schools horizontally, and this straight line represents about the proportion that leave high school head up. We have 90,000 in the elementary schools, 9,000 in our high schools, and in the area represented in this rectangle between 14 and 20 years of age, which is the formative period of young people's lives, we have 31,500 young people, and if we take 3,500 away from that, as representing the proportion in the community that go to the higher schools of learning, it leaves you 28,000 young people out in employment in the formative years of their lives (in the years when the adult's earning capacity is still being determined) unconnected with a school and before the establishment of this Federal board and its fostering aid in the United States. Before that there was no thought of taking care of these young people. It did not occur to anybody that you can afford to raise thousands of young people as colts so they can not pull a load when they get to be horses. Where in the world does business come from? It comes from the development of our people. Five hundred primitive Indians will not give you any business. Five hundred developed white people, or developed people whether they be white or black, will give you business. It is a tremendously richer source of business than you can hope to get from South America or the Philippines way out here, and is right here at our doorstep, and we, in Wisconsin, we believe that that is a field which we can not afford to neglect, and under the

fostering aid and guidance of the Federal work, with similar legislation in our own States, we took the thing seriously and we had a representative board composed of two employers and two employees, and I, together with that board, since 1912, when this work was undertaken, have gone out to the taxpayers in the city of Milwaukee, have put this problem up to them, and have taken the money right out of the red meat taxes of Milwaukee city to the extent of $1,250,000 in one year.

How is it possible that we have been able to go to our communities and get money in such quantities? The records of the city of Milwaukee will show that not one dollar of that money, amounting from that time to this to close onto $6,000,000, has ever received a dissenting vote of the committee. Why? Why? We have had a representative board. We have had a board that the employer sat upon with ease. He could sit here and know, without any suspicion as to findings, that he could go out to the people and say," These are the facts," and the people would believe him.

We have had manufacturers, large taxpayers, who sat with these other representatives, sat around the table and discussed the things, and they were able to go over and say to the association of commerce, Gentlemen, this thing is sound; this thing is all right."

We have had those representatives and the result is that it is the one thing in the city of Milwaukee that absolutely every cleavage is healed upon, and it has the support of every element in the community. It is the one thing we agree upon, socialists and otherslabor leaders, the American Federation of Labor, the association of commerce, and all of the religious influences and political influences— all social cleavages are healed under this one thing, and if there is anything that Milwaukee is more proud of than any other thing, I will say, that it is this. The State administrations that came out and fought against this thing have been retired, and mayors have been retired, and some of you will wonder why it is that Dan Holmes was elected mayor of the city of Milwaukee.

I will tell you the reason why. He came out, although we have not enough socialists to elect a socialist mayor, but he being a clean man and an honest man (there is not one of you who would hesitate to make him governor of your State) and he fought bitterly, making it a part of the issue, and not one of his opponents was willing to vote against it, and we have worked this thing out and have been able to get the support of the communities. Why? Because it is based upon the right principle and it works. If you go out to get the support of labor in line without it, you have got to get men to argue it without suspicion. If you are going to get the support of the manufacturers you have got to be able, above all things, not to say one thing to a manufacturer and another thing to labor, and whenever they are around there you will not say one thing, because you will not have to.

So I say, seeing this thing as it has worked in our city and our State, and it has been working in the Federal Government, I believe it would be a tremendous mistake to change it in any way. I believe it is right just as it is. I do not believe it would be a good thing to merge it into another department. I am glad that it is not the issue at the present time, but that you are just seeking out whether upon certain conditions that might arise would be advisable to do so.