[H. or R. idea of charging Governor Blount with improper If this should be adopted by the Committee of the Whole, and agreed to in the House, a bill could immediately be brought in and passed, without delay, through the House of Representatives, and probably through the Senate; but the report under consideration was of a barren nature, rather calculated to be entered and to sleep upon the Journals than to produce any operative act, or to require the concurrence of the Senate. Mr. D. said he could not consent to go further than he had stated, much less admit that by their own single act they Mr. MACON said the chief differences in the had become a separate sovereignty; for if such a opinions of gentlemen arose upon a subject which principle was sanctioned, it was impossible to fore- was not before the Committee, viz: the number see all the consequences, and extent of them. If of Representatives to which this new State was they were, as had been represented, at this moment entitled in that House. The question before the an independent State, they might offer or refuse Committee was on admitting the Territory to be at pleasure to become a party to this Confederacy, a State of the Union. There appeared to him or they might, in offering to enter into the Union, only two things as necessary to be inquired into: annex to the offer such terms and conditions as First, Was the new Government Republican? It should give them advantages over the other States, appeared to him to be so. And, secondly, Were and they might even treat and ally themselves there 60,000 inhabitants in the Territory? It apwith any foreign Power. Although such an hos-peared to him there were; and, if so, their admistile or menacing measure was not to be appre- sion as a State should not be considered as a gift, hended on the part of a people so regardful of their but as a right. Their temporary Government (by true interests as those in question were, yet what whose authority the late census was taken) had security could there be for the prevalence of an not only a Governor appointed by the Executive equally good disposition through the whole extent of the General Government, but also a Legislative of the other Territory in which ten new States had Council. To admit this Territory as a member been contemplated, and in a part of which resided of the Union, appeared to him as a matter of course. many whose attachment to another Government It also seemed as if the Executive was of that opinwas well known? The rule they were now about ion. The PRESIDENT having been duly informed to establish must operate in future as a guide, and from time to time with the proceedings of that it needed no effort to believe that this country Territory towards being admitted into the Union, would on some future occasion, and that perhaps if he had thought they had been doing wrong, he not distant, lament the adoption of the principles would have set them right. It was also his opincontained in the report. ion, that if they had passed a law directing a census Mr. SEDGWICK concurred in opinion with the to be taken, it would have been done exactly in gentleman from New Jersey, [Mr. DAYTON ;] and the way the present had been taken. He thought if any gentleman understood him to say that he the subject of navigation was settled by the Condid not wish the State of Tennessee to be admit- stitution of the United States; the waters in that ted into the Union, it must have been an error, country would be under the same regulations with for he had no such desire. But he was still per-all other waters in the Union, nor did he think suaded that it was never intended that that Territory should have the power of settling the way by which they were to become one of the independent States. What had been said by a gentleman from Virginia, [Mr. MADISON.] of their being in a degraded situation, because controlled by laws which were made by persons independent of them, would not only apply to 60,000, but to six persons. The question was whether they were in a situation in which they could claim to be a State? If they were, they ought to be admitted; if not, they ought not to be admitted. If the idea of the gentleman from New Jersey was adopted. they might be admitted at an early period. He had no there was any thing in the Constitution of Tennessee which had a contrary tendency. It appeared clearly to him that everything had been fairly done, and that they had a right to claim an admission as a member of the Union. Mr. BALDWIN said. had he belonged to the Territory South of the Ohio, he should probably have been for pursuing a different mode of conducting this business, from that which it seems they have thought proper to adopt. He should have thought it desirable, a year or two ago, to have obtained from Congress an act pointing out the mode of taking the census, and ascertaining the events on which they were entitled to become a State. He said Congress ought also, of their own accord, to H. OF R.] Admission of Tennessee. [MAY, 1796. He thought the business was of considerable consequence, and he was sorry it was taken up in so thin a House. There would certainly arise in a few years other new States in the Western country yet uninhabited, which might occasion considerable difficulties. They might make a census and say they had 60,000 inhabitants, when they had not half that number. He did not wish to keep the inhabitants of the Southwestern Territory out of the Union, but he wished them to be admitted in a Constitutional mode. have taken up that subject, and made those provisions, though not requested by the Territory; and it had always been with surprise he had observed that the first act for forming that Territory did not contain those provisions. He thought, as to the principle in this case there could be no doubt. Whenever the event happened of their having 60,000 inhabitants, as pointed out by law, their right to be a State took place. It was to depend entirely on that contingency: when that was proved to have taken place, they could not be debarred. There having been no mode previously pointed Mr. GALLATIN was of opinion that the people out for ascertaining this fact, only makes it more of the Southwestern Territory became ipso facto difficult for the Territory and for Congress to be a State the moment they amounted to 60,000 free satisfied of the fact of their actually having so many inhabitants, and that it became the duty of Coninhabitants, but does not affect their right. He gress, as part of the original compact, to recogthought it best for the House to proceed to exam-nise them as such, and to admit them into the ine their census and the evidence which they had Union whenever they had satisfactory proof of thought proper to collect and bring forward in their the fact. own way. He was ready to allow that, for him- It was objected that, previous to the proof self, he should examine it more scrupulously than of that fact being given, it was necessary that he should have done, had it been taken under a Congress should have laid out and formed that law of Congress. But he had not understood many Territory into one or more States, and that the objections had yet been made to it. Perhaps, on proof of their number should have been given unfurther examination, it will be found fully satis-der direction and by order of Congress, the peofactory; if so, they must be admitted to be a State ple not being competent to give the proof themas a matter of right. They might have waited selves. longer, and attempted to have formed two States: they have made their election of the other alternative. He thought it wise for Congress to avail itself of this opportunity of holding them to what they have chosen, and thus prevent future difficulties and misunderstandings. As to the objection that there are several things in the Constitution of Tennessee inconsistent with the Constitution of the United States, and with the ordinance for establishing the Territory, it is well known that the Constitution of the United States, and the compact under which the Territory was settled, will be paramount, they can therefore have no effect. Both those objections supposes a construction of the original compact between the people of that Territory and the United States, (of the act of cession of North Carolina, and of the ordinance of Congress of 1787,) which was inadmissible; for it rendered that compact binding upon one party and not upon the other. It is supposed that that ordinance, whose object it was to establish the principles of a free Government, and to ascertain a certainty of admission into the Union, had declared that the time when those people were to enjoy that Government, and were to be admitted as a member of the Union, depended not on the contingency of their having 60,000 free inhabiMr. W. SMITH said he was glad to find the ob- tants, but on certain previous acts of Congressservations which he made yesterday in some mea- in other words, on the sole will of Congress. sure sanctioned to-day. He then recapitulated his Either you must acknowledge that their admisleading arguments. It was said yesterday by a gen- sion depends solely on the condition of the comtleman from Virginia, [Mr. MADISON,] that whilst pact being fulfilled, to wit: their having the numthe people of the Territory remained in their Co- ber required; or you declare that it rests upon anlonial situation, they were in a state of degrada- other act, which may be done or refused by the tion; but, he would ask, at whose request they other party; that Congress have the power, by became so? Look at their request in the year neglecting to lay them out into one or more States, 1790, as expressed in the cession act. And yet, in or by refusing to pass a law to take a census, to the course of a few years, without consulting Con- keep them forever in their Colonial state. Nor gress, in consequence of a census taken by their did the strictest interpretation of that contract own authority, they proceed to erect themselves justify the construction given by the gentleman into a State, create a new Government, and claim from South Carolina; for the only meaning that to be admitted into the Union as matter of right. could consistently be given to the words, "lay out Under their former Government their member and form into one or more States," was, that Conwas admitted to that House; yet, whilst he holds gress had power to fix the boundaries of the Terhis seat under that Government, they have ap-ritory or Territories that were to become a State pointed other members to represent them under their new Government. The most regular way would certainly have been to have transmitted their request to Congress to be formed into a State. Congress would then have passed a law for taking a census, have fixed when the Territorial system should cease and the State Government commence. or States. They could have declared that that Territory should be one or two States; but if they had neglected to do it, their omission could not be plead against the inhabitants of Tennessee. The power given by that clause to Congress was merely to fix boundaries, and to choose whether there should be more than one State; but if they had not made use of that power, there must be one State, and its boundaries were fixed by the act of cession, so that nothing remained now for Congress to operate upon. [H. OF R. of fairness, and the number of inhabitants therein returned so far exceeded sixty thousand, as fully to compensate for any possible error or abuse resulting from the clause he had alluded to. Another question, not then before them, would afterwards occur, relative to the number of Representatives that State should be entitled to. He would not now decide whether, in order to fix that representation, a new census, under the direction of Congress, would be necessary. This, however, was not the question before them, and on the present one he would vote in favor of the report of the committee. There was nothing in the ordinance of 1787 which forbade the people giving proof of their number, without any previous act of Government. On the contrary, in a case of a similar nature with the present, to determine whether there were 5,000 free males, and whether, of course, the Territory was entitled to a Colonial Legislature, it was declared that as soon as proof should be given of that fact to the Governor, they should be entitled to their new form of Government; which expression left to the people a full power to give the proof themselves. He could have wished, indeed, that the c nsus had been taken under a law of Congress; but it must be remembered that the law of the Territory of Tennessee, under which the present census had been taken, was acquiesced in by the Government of the Union; for upon that law both the Governor and Legislative Council of the Territory, both chosen by the General Government, had a negative; in other words, that law was our act as well as the act of the people of Tennessee; for it had passed by the joint consent of their and our Representatives. At all events, the neglect of Congress in not passing a law could not, in this case, nor in that of laying out boundaries, be urged as an argument against the admission of those people, unless, indeed, we meant to assume the imperious language of a Mother Country to her Colonies, instead of that of the Representatives of a free people to their fellow-called arguments, were, in his opinion, mere quibcitizens. The objections made to the Constitution of Tennessee were, if possible, still more frivolous. It was said, that the omission in that instrument of certain restrictions upon themselves, which made part of the original compact of the ordinance of 1787, was a breach of that compact. With as much propriety could it be said that the omission in the Constitution of South Carolina, Pennsylvania, Delaware, or Georgia, (all of which were so formed after the adoption of the Federal Constitution,) of those clauses of the Constitution of the United States which imposed restrictions upon the several States, was a breach of that Constitution; as if, in the latter case, the Constitution of the United States, and in the first, the Constitution and the ordinance of 1787, were less binding because not inserted in the individual Constitution, in the municipal law of the State. Mr. BLOUNT said, there was an absolute necessity for the clause which the gentleman last up objected to. Persons were daily coming to that Territory in great numbers. If the census had been required to be taken in one day all the people who had come into the Territory, with intention to reside permanently there, could by no means have been numbered. It was not intended to give the officers power to take persons in more places than one, nor did he believe it had been done. He undertook to explain yesterday the reason why so long a time was given, but he seemed not to have been understood, which was, the difficulties attending the passage of the wilderness. The gentleman from South Carolina [Mr. SMITH] had said, that his arguments of yesterday had been to-day admitted. If the gentleman had supposed that he had admitted them, he was mistaken. That he might not continue under the mistake, he would inform him, that what he had bles, such as could only have been expected from a County Court lawyer, at the bar of a County Court. Mr. Corr said, that as he had not heard it suggested from any quarter that it would be expedient to divide the Territory into two States, he did not think it important to inquire into the powers of Congress in that respect. It is declared by the ordinance for the government of the Territory, that when there should be sixty thousand inhabitants in any one of the States there they should be admitted into the Union. If, then, it is not in contemplation to divide the Territory into two States, he considered that the right to be admitted was complete as soon as there was the requisite number within the whole Territory. But it appeared to him, that on examining the census and the law under which it was taken, they could not be considered as furnishing proof that there was that number there. He did not pretend to say that any fraud had been committed in the execution of the same man might have been counted in several counties, nay, in every county in the Territory, and that without any fraud, but in strict compliance with the law; two months having been allowed for taking the enumeration, and it being enjoined on the Sheriffs of the several counties to include in their enumeration all persons within their respective districts within that period. The only question which, in his opinion, deserved consideration was, whether the proof given to them that there were sixty thousand inhabit-law, but the law itself was wholly defective. The ants, was satisfactory. It appeared to him that there was a clause in the act for taking the census, relative to transient persons, which differed from that under which the census of the States had been taken, and which was liabl to abuse. As that law, however, was acquiesce n by ourselves, the question was, whether it had een actually abused; whether there had been ar fraud committed in taking the census. On this they had not a shadow of proof. The census bore on its face every appearance 4th CoN.-43 The gentleman from North Carolina [Mr. BLOUNT] seemed to imagine that it would have been impracticable to have followed a mode similar to the one pointed out in the enumeration law of the United States, but he could not see the reason. [He read the law.] [MAY, 1796. the Territory should be entitled to all the privileges secured to the inhabitants of the Territory Northwest of the Ohio, by the ordinance of 1787. The extent of their privileges, therefore, is to be determined by this ordinance, which may be called their charter. They have no other or greater privileges than the inhabitants of the Northwestern Territory; and it cannot be pretended that these would be entitled to admission into the Union as one State, so soon as their whole numordinance itself divides that country into three separate and distinct States, each of which must contain sixty thousand free inhabitants before it can claim to be received. The actual circumstances and situation of the Southwestern Territory evinced the reasonableness and propriety of this construction; it is composed of two settlerated from each other by the Cumberland Mountain and a wilderness of two hundred miles in width, which has always been inhabited by the Indians, and the soil and jurisdiction of which have been actually ceded to them by the United States, by late Treaties; and by an examination of the documents on the table it would appear, that when, agreeably to the act of the Territorial Legislature, the officers who took the census put to the people of the Territory the question whether they were desirous of admission into the Union? the inMr. SITGREAVES said, he felt every disposition habitants of the Western or Mero district almost favorably to meet the wishes of the people of the universally answered in the negative. He would Southwestern Territory, and for a reason which not undertake positively to pronounce on the inexhad been given, viz: that, as they were our fellow-pediency of forming the whole country into one citizens, it was desirable they should equally par- State; but, under the circumstances which he had ticipate with us in all the advantages of the Gene- stated, and until they should be satisfactorily exral Government, and suffer no longer than was plained to his mind, it did appear to him that the necessary the comparative humiliation of a Colo-interest and the wishes of that people required a nial or Territorial administration; but, from ob- division of the Territory. It looked somewhat vious considerations, he thought it highly import-absurd to connect under one permanent Governant that they should be admitted to the enjoyment of these advantages only in conformity with the promise made to them, and on the terms of the compact entered into jointly by the United States and by them. Two constructions of this compact had been contended for; one, that so soon as sixty thousand free inhabitants should be collected within the Territory, they should be entitled to a place in the Union, as an independent State; the other, that Congress should first lay off the Territory into one or more States, according to a just discretion, defining the same by bounds and limits; and that the admission of such States, thus defined, should take place as their population respectively amounted to the number of free inhabitants mentioned; that is, that the sixty thousand inhabitants could not claim admission into the Union, unless their number was comprised within a State whose Territorial limits had been previously ascertained by an act of the United States. He inclined to this latter construction, because it was conformable to the letter, and, as he understood it. to the spirit of the instrument. By the act of cession of the State of North Carolina, accepted by Congress, it is provided that the ceded Territory should be laid off into one or more States, and that the people of That affixed a particular day to which the enumeration had relation, though a period of several months was allowed for taking it in. What had induced the people in the Southwestern Territory to adopt a different plan he could not say; but it was certainly liable to abuse, and the most faithful execution of it would furnish no proof of their number shall amount to sixty thousand, because the bers; he therefore conceived that the census was not to be relied on. It appeared to him, that the only question was, whether they had such proof as it was reasonable for Congress to require, of the number of inhabitants? The ordinance said nothing about the manner in which the proof should be made out. The gentleman from Pennsylvania [Mr. GALLA-ments, the Holston and the Mero districts, sepaTIN] had referred to another part of the ordinance to establish a rule for this case. The ordinance in the case alluded to, where proof was to be made to the Governor of a certain fact, had left it to him to determine what proof was sufficient, and he thought most clearly, in this case, the proof must be to the satisfaction of Congress, to whom it was to be made, and that it would be absurd to suppose them bound to accept as satisfactory such proof as the people in the Southwest Territory were pleased to give. ment, people separated from each other by natural barriers, by a distance of two hundred miles, and by a foreign jurisdiction. They had been told, by gentlemen who knew the fact, that during the period of Indian hostility, the people emigrating to the Mero district were obliged to stop five or six weeks at the Eastern boundary of the wilderness, until they could collect in companies or caravans of sufficient number and force to pass in safety; the time of hostility may again return, and even a state of peace with Indians is not a state of such tranquility or security as to preclude the necessity of caution and vigilance on the frontiers. The people of the Western district seem sensible of the inconvenience of an arrangement so unnatural as the one proposed, and so far as their wishes can be collected from the documents before the committee, they desire as yet to preserve their connexion with us in its present mode, and to remain under the Territorial Government. But it had been said by his colleague, [Mr. GALLATIN] that if this construction was the true one, it was in the power of Congress forever to keep this people out of the Union; that by neglecting or refusing to lay off the Territory into a State or States, they might forever preclude its MAY, 1796.] Admission of Tennessee. [H. OF R. inhabitants from admission into the Government, inference, he contended, was incorrect. The eflet their numbers be ever so large. Mr. S. on his fect produced by the first change, acts only upon part, admitted, that if this objection was founded, the people of the Territory; it regulates only the it ought to have weight; but nothing, he conceiv-mode of enacting their internal inunicipal regulaed could be more fallacious. In all compacts be- tions; it is an affair in which the United States tween a nation and a part of its citizens, the have no interest, and no concern; it was therefore physical power, it is true, resides with the nation, perfectly just that the evidence of the fact should and there is no other security for the other con- be ascertained by the people who alone were to tracting party but the obligations of good faith be affected by it; but to the consequences of the and the integrity of the Government. In this second alteration in the Government, the United view, his colleague's objection would apply to States are also a party, and a party essentially and every possible contract to which the nation should importantly interested. When the inhabitants of be a party; even on his own construction of the that Territory claim an equal share in the admininstrument, a resolution or act of Congress, of istration of the General Government, it is certainsome kind, is supposed to be necessary before the ly reasonable that the General Government should people of the Southwestern Territory can be ad- be satisfied, by means known to its Constitution, mitted to a share of the national representation; of the evidence on which this claim is founded. Acby withholding this act, be it what it may, the cordingly, a repetition of the expression relied on privilege could be defeated; and thus the objec- is carefully avoided in that part of the ordinance tion may be retorted on the gentleman who uses which relates to the admission of the Territory it. But admitting the obligation of the Govern- into the Urion; this difference was certainly not ment to perform its engagements with fidelity, without a meaning; and the true inference is that, and its disposition to do so, no such objection can in the last case it was intended the census should grow out of a fair construction of the compact. be taken by the authority of Congress, and not as The ordinance of 1787, and the act of 1790, both in the former case by the authority of the Terridirect that a State or States shall be laid off. This torial Government; the census in the original mode of expression imposes an essential obliga- States is taken at the periods prescribed by the tion on the United States; it does not leave them Constitution, by the authority and by the officers authority to refuse; it gives a discretion only as of the United States, and there can be no reason to the time and manner of laying off the coun- for distinguishing the case of the Southwestern try; this discretion must necessarily be vested Territory, or entitling them to a representation somewhere, and it is placed where it cannot be upon easier or more favorable terms. supposed that it will be abused. There is, in truth, no such intention to delay, on the part of the Government, whatever shall be necessary to meet and to gratify the just wishes of the people of the Territory; the only dispute is as to the mode of doing the business and of collecting the evidence of the necessary facts. It is one question whether the Government or the United States shall ascertain the existence of the prerequisites by a process of its own, executed under its own authority, or whether it shall take upon credit the evidence furnished by the Territorial Government? It is admitted on all hands, that, to justify the claim of those people as a matter of right, 60,000 free inhabitants must inhabit the Territory; is there then satisfactory proof that there is this number of inhabitants? It had been contended by his colleague [Mr. GALLATIN] that the proof ought to be satisfactory, because it had been ascertained by the same authority which, as to a purpose supposed to be analogous, had been prescribed by the ordinance itself. By the provisions of that instrument, the adminstration of the Territory was to be strictly Colonial, by the Governor and Judges, until there should be within it 5,000 free male inhabitants of full age; at which period, the people were authorized to choose a Territorial Legislature, and the proof of the necessary number was to be made to the Governor of the Territory. Hence it is inferred, that proof made to the Governor, and to his satisfaction, which is sufficient for one change in the Government, ought to be held sufficient for the other change contemplated by the same ordinance. This But it had been contended by a gentleman from Virginia, [Mr. NICHOLAS] that as the act for the government of this Territory did not divide it into more States than one, as was done in the ordinance for the government of the Northwestern Territory, it resulted that Congress had made their election, had exercised the discretion given to the United States by the act of cession, and by declining to lay it off into several States had established it as one. This conclusion could not be justified, either by the words of the act, or by the example of the ordinance. The act is avowedly and expressly made for the purpose of temporary Government only; and it was a fact of which the gentleman from Virginia needed not to be told by him, that the division of the Northwestern Territory by the ordinance of 1787, was as yet incomplete, and that its operation as to this purpose depended altogether on an act to be done, but not yet done, by the State which that gentleman repre-* sented, to wit: a partial repeal of their act of cession. Mr. S. said, he could not see where the doubt resided. The cession of this Southwestern Territory, made by North Carolina and accepted by Congress, directs, as he had before observed, that the ceded country should be laid off in one or more States. He asked if this had been done? If it had not been done, did it not remain to be done? The course was extremely clear; a State must be formed; and afterwards when that State shall contain 60,000 free inhabitants, and this fact shall be properly ascertained, it shall be received into the Union, and not before. He did not think that by contending for these |